Unusually low temperatures. Winter fuel? No additives?

Aqua Puttana

Poly - Thread Finder
There have been quite a few posts lately where no start seems to trace to gelled or waxed fuel.

There are unseasonable temperatures over much of the USA. The winter fuel blends are supposed to address low temperature operation. The unseasonably cold temperatures caught some with their pants down. Even though winter fuel blends are introduced early in the season, not everyone uses enough fuel to change their tank over completely to winter blend. Dilution/replacement of the summer blend takes regular refilling. I have no control over what "winter blend" fuel comes out of the pump. I do have control over adding an anti-gel.

No matter what others may tell you, using an anti-gel aka flow improver will not automatically void your warranty. Many of those poo-pooing the use of additives live in warmer areas. They don't need to deal with the problems of extreme cold. It is easy for them to live the no additives lifestyle and recommend the same for others.

I look at my use of anti-gel during winter as cheap insurance. Once your fuel is gelled it takes effort to get back to normal. Extra cranking with no start is not good for your engine.

I use Power Service Diesel Fuel Supplement+Cetane Boost Diesel Fuel Anti-Gel because it is readily available. I am convinced that it helps. Many other proven anti-gel commercial products are available.

http://www.truevalue.com/product/Di...ti-Gel-16-oz-/40135.uts?keyword=power service

https://mbworld.org/forums/glk-clas...ed-diesel-cold-weather-anti-gel-additive.html


If you choose to use an anti-gel follow the dosing instructions.

Do with this information what you will.

:cheers: vic

Added:
Lindenengineering recommends BG products. They are a bit more pricey and more difficult to source than the Power Service Diesel Fuel Supplement+Cetane Boost Diesel Fuel Anti-Gel product if that matters to you.

OK it now time to beat the LANDROVER drum and BG products.

As you may know we fix Landrovers & Jags at LinDen lots of 'em!
I also use BG products as being very good .
I refer to their service bulletin.
Diesel Fuel Recommended Anti Waxing NA Markets.
Condensed:- In cold weather diesel engines can experience difficulties.

Formation of wax crystals plug filters. Inconsistent fuel quality summer and winter blends.
Use and recommend BG products DFC HP Extra cold performance additive BG 23711

Same With cetane improver 23811.


Add during fueling when temperature are at least 3 Celsius (38F) and allow mixing by allowing to idle for a short while after filling.

So there you have it from the nice people at Landrover/Jag in Mahwah NJ.
Dennis
What do you do when fueling below 3C (38F)? Where I live we have extended period well below 0C (32F).
That question came to my mind too. :thumbup:
As an aside, I've noticed that most all anti-gel aka flow improvers recommend addition to the tank prior to extreme cold weather and during subsequent fuel fills. Adding the product after the fact is not as effective.

Add it and a carry on !
Don't panic !
Info by Landrover & HM Gov (Min of Information!) :laughing:

I simply did a quick transpose of the Landrover /Jag broadsheet bulletin about the recent cold weather and diesel fuel waxing etc.
I was impressed & being very proactive , because they came flat out and recommended a product that we use and also recommend for Sprinters.

In fact it's also been the choice of John Deere mechanics and Ag tractors in the field and farm for a while now..
Dennis
For those who like to stay with Mother Mercedes.
https://bevo.mercedes-benz.com/bevolisten/110.1_en.html

The Additives spec 119. MB has reduced the information considerably from what I quoted and used in my older threads. I suspect it relates to legal reasons, or just that Mother Mercedes doesn't want her children to have too much information.
https://bevo.mercedes-benz.com/bevolisten/119.0_en.html

Here's the text as of January 2018 in case they eliminate the info completely.
MB119.0 said:
Additives and secondary additives for fuels
Due to the increased demands placed on fuels, it is necessary to optimize certain properties of the base fuels. Additives can lend additional properties to fuels or increase or mitigate existing properties. Additives are fuel-soluble compounds of mainly organic chemical nature.

A variety of properties can be influenced by additives, they e.g. prevent or reduce the formation of deposits of combustion products in the fuel injection system and engine or corrosion damage in the fuel system. Usage properties can also be improved using additives, a foam-inhibiting additive is e.g. frequently used in diesel fuels.

Numerous additives are used in commercially available fuels. Some examples are listed below.

Gasoline
Octane number booster
Detergents
Corrosion inhibitors
Antioxidants
Conductivity booster
Dyes/markers
Demulsifying agent
Diesel fuel
Cetane number booster
Detergents
Corrosion inhibitors
Antioxidants
Conductivity booster
Foam-inhibiting additives
Flowability booster
Lubricity booster
Dyes/markers
Demulsifying agent


A special case are organometallic compounds such as e g. methylcyclopentadienyl manganese tricarbonyl, ferrocene and tetraethyl lead which are still used in some countries to boost the octane number. These additives have very negative effects on the advanced engine and exhaust treatment technology. The Worldwide Fuel Charter therefore advises against the use of additives forming ashes (containing metal).

Extensive research has shown that the use of gasoline and diesel fuels with high additivity levels is a necessary measure, and in the long term also a cost-effective one, for the service life and cleanliness of engines and fuel systems, maintenance of favorable exhaust emission values as well as for achieving a good performance overall.

In terms of the supply of such fuels, the individual customer must rely on the filling stations that he/she visits selling such fuels with additives; the opinion of large companies passed-on to us has shown that this is the case nationally, and is usually the case in respect of independent filling stations not tied to major suppliers. Fleet owners should therefore ensure that products with additives are delivered when negotiating on a bi-lateral level.

The correct selection, application and metering of such additives depend on detailed research in the laboratory, on test benches and in vehicles, so that the effect of the additives is optimized for the respective fuel, additives are adapted to each other and do not cause any negative side effects. Since the consumer will generally not have the required facilities for this, mixing additives to fuels may be the exclusive preserve of the manufacturers of such fuels.

However, drivers are constantly being offered fuel additives with the promise of huge success, such as higher engine output at lower fuel consumption, for example. For better distinction, we have designated these additives secondary additives . Our vehicle engines generally do not require such secondary additives, since in most cases uniform and adequate grades of fuel can be assumed. Special attention should be paid to making sure that only the fuel grade recommended by us is used. The use of secondary additives however, is mostly an additional cost burden that is not necessary and in the worst case it can lead to permanent damage. In individual markets with a poor fuel grade, additional use of additives may be required. In such special instance, additives which are tried and tested and approved for Mercedes-Benz vehicles are recommended by the Mercedes-Benz specialist workshops. Please ensure that you observe the instructions and mixing ratios specified on the container.

We strongly advise against the use of secondary additives that are not approved by Mercedes-Benz. The application of secondary additives is always at the risk of the operator of the vehicle, since their use may impair any warranty issued both by the manufacturer of the vehicle and the fuel supplier.
https://bevo.mercedes-benz.com/bevolisten/131.0_en.html
https://bevo.mercedes-benz.com/bevolisten/132.0_en.html
https://bevo.mercedes-benz.com/bevolisten/134.0_en.html
https://bevo.mercedes-benz.com/bevolisten/135.0_en.html
https://bevo.mercedes-benz.com/bevolisten/136.0_en.html
https://bevo.mercedes-benz.com/bevolisten/136.1_en.html
https://bevo.mercedes-benz.com/bevolisten/136.2_en.html
https://bevo.mercedes-benz.com/bevolisten/137.0_en.html
https://bevo.mercedes-benz.com/bevolisten/138.0_en.html
https://bevo.mercedes-benz.com/bevolisten/138.1_en.html
 
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CJPJ

2008 3500 170"ext. 3.0 V6 OM642.993
I use Power Service Diesel Fuel Supplement+Cetane Boost Diesel Fuel Anti-Gel because it is readily available. I am convinced that it helps. Many other proven anti-gel commercial products are available.
EI'm
http://www.truevalue.com/product/Di...ti-Gel-16-oz-/40135.uts?keyword=power service

https://mbworld.org/forums/glk-clas...ed-diesel-cold-weather-anti-gel-additive.html


If you choose to use an anti-gel follow the dosing instructions.

Do with this information what you will.

:cheers: vic
I suspect there's a lot (billions) of antí gel additive sold. Huge, and a easy to target market. I also suggest not 100% of everyone is using the stuff and are driving \ operating as normal.
------------------
Vic; if you will: put some winter-fuel in a clear container and place the container where your fuel normally is . ... So to show the forming wax crystals configuration that you prevented by using the supplement additive.
:2cents:
 

Oilburner

2004 2500 140"cargo l/r
People don't realize, how cold temperatures can affect many things. Liquids are no longer liquids. Just to tell you story from New Years Eve, we had a call to a trailer fire at 1:30 AM (I am fireman/engineer in my town). We put the fire out quickly, but shortly after the pain started... we topped off water tank with water, usually takes 1-3 minutes at the hydrant, depending on how much water is left. This time took us 15 minutes struggling trying to unscrew hose from the hydrant. Finally, we had no other solution, it was brutal cold and we left the hose on the hydrant. We recover it same morning, using torches. Now, think about water in fuel??
 
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Aqua Puttana

Poly - Thread Finder
I suspect there's a lot (billions) of antí gel additive sold. Huge, and a easy to target market. I also suggest not 100% of everyone is using the stuff and are driving \ operating as normal.
...
You may be correct. If I lived anywhere in California I would likely not be using anti-gel and getting along just fine.

...
------------------
Vic; if you will: put some winter-fuel in a clear container and place the container where your fuel normally is . ... So to show the forming wax crystals configuration that you prevented by using the supplement additive.
:2cents:
Thanks for the suggestion, but I decline.

A single grab sample would prove nothing. I fuel up many times in many places over a winter season. I'm trying to avoid problems, not to prove whether they exist or not.

I'm happy with spending 15 - 20 bucks every winter for my placebo effect. I really, really don't want to be stuck in -15F temperatures working on my vehicle. I save enough money by using engine oil that isn't listed on BeVo to be able to afford that luxury.

:cheers: vic
 

Wrinkledpants

2017 144WB 4x4
I've had diesel gel on me in northern MN with heavy equipment. Those were usually cold nights (-30 f or so). I've read reports of people having diesel gel on them in their Sprinters out here in the west during winter months. Twoifoverland (instagram) are permanently traveling in their LMTV that apparently just had their diesel gel on them here in Colorado (steamboat). Was the second story listed on my IG today, ironically. Here is their post:

"twoifoverlandBrrrr. ❄It’s rare that we are ever cold in our little #hyggekrog, but yesterday? Even my perfume froze ��. Slight malfunction of the Webasto heating systems due to fuel that wasn’t quite winter-treated enough. (Lesson learned there!) It left us a little chilly at -6 but we were back up and running in no time. Good thing for redundant heating systems (and the new down pants I got for Xmas!) ��."

No idea where the fuel they bought was - could have been tankered in from somewhere giving that their LMTV likely has a thousand mile range.

None the less, diesel fuel gels. Until fuel places start listing on the pumps what the gelling temp of their diesel fuel is, I'll be doing the same treatment regime that Aqua does.
 

Aqua Puttana

Poly - Thread Finder
Guys, about what temp does fuel start to gel to the point of no start ?? Thanks, Frank
:idunno:

I know that summer fuel can gell or wax around 15F. Winter fuel *should* be good down well into minus F temperatures.

I treat my fuel so I don't worry when our ambient drops below 0F maybe -5F. Our ambient can drop to -15F and lower. My method is to begin treating before those temperatures are expected.

Note in this link that the USA really doesn't have official or strict regulations for winter diesel fuel blend.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Winter_diesel_fuel

Added:
"United States[edit]
In the United States there is no legislation on a fixed time frame when winter diesel must meet a specific temperature characteristic. The ASTM D 975 standard does not specify the cold flow requirements of diesel fuel. Instead, it suggests that the cloud point be no more than 6°C higher than the 10th percentile minimum ambient temperature for the month the fuel will be used. The 10th percentile temperature corresponds to the minimum temperature that would be reached no more than 3 days out of 30 for the month (decile). The ASTM D 975 contains overview maps that show the expected tenth percentile temperature for every month for each state."

My interpretation. There may be unseasonably cold days in a month which by the guidelines the fuel supplier doesn't need to worry about the winter blend being good enough. But the vehicle owner may need to operate each and every day of the month. :hmmm:

This is an example for October. The full ASTM standard requires a subscription.

WinterFuel.jpg


Note that once gelled, fuel needs to be brought above the gell temperature to completely restore the fuel.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gel_point_(petroleum)

I would rather avoid those problems than worry about them.

vic
 
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Wrinkledpants

2017 144WB 4x4
Interesting to see that the eastern half of Colorado (plains) is -2 C, while the western half is -8 C. That's only 17 degree F.

This document lists cold flow temps for #1 and #2, plus blended mixtures. Our VW dealer encourages and sells diesel treatment.
 

Attachments

I use anti-gel. Even if the pump has signage proclaiming "winterized diesel".

Do note that some brands of anti-gel state to add 2x the recommended dosage for biodiesel. Also note that in some states, the exact percentage of biodiesel in the fuel may not be known. Most pumps in my travels in the Chicago metropolitan area state "contains between 5% and 20% biodiesel", which seems to be a pretty wide range. I found one that states "up to 5% biodoesel"- big difference.

Cheap insurance in my mind.

So far, no failures to start with my 2015 4 cylinder in low single digit temps, and once at below 0*F.
 

Aqua Puttana

Poly - Thread Finder
Interesting to see that the eastern half of Colorado (plains) is -2 C, while the western half is -8 C. That's only 17 degree F.

This document lists cold flow temps for #1 and #2, plus blended mixtures. Our VW dealer encourages and sells diesel treatment.
Data is always good. :thumbup:

The chart showing just the temperatures for a #1/#2 blend ratio is not necessarily giving the entire story. My understanding is that all commercially supplied winter formula diesel fuel gets a combination of #1 diesel blend and an additive formulation to achieve their goal.

The #1/#2 blend now just sets the base with the fuel supplier using additives to improve the performance. A straight blend with no additives is an older method that worked fine with older design diesel engines.

Still, the unseasonable cold this year could have many areas dispensing a "meets the standard" 10 percentile winter diesel which is not quite up to task.

Just an opinion. I'm no expert. I didn't even spend a night in a Holiday Inn Express.

vic
 

Keeft

New member
I have a 2016 Sprinter 144 4x4 Passenger. Never had issues until this year in New England. Over New Year the Sprinter sat for 4 days in -8F to -14F temps. Auxilary heater would not start, and van only started after multiple cranking, and then only on 3-4 cylinders. Once warmed up everything started working. I added 16 ounces for diesel 911 and after the next nights -16F it worked fine.... Im a convert for winter anti-gel additives (spoke wit my MB dealer and they said, yes add additives for below 0F temps.
 
few years ago when the polar vortex hit NJ, the only diesel vehicle I have that started was the sprinter treated with power service in white bottle. my 2012 duramax and the 2012 S class bluetec wouldn't start..

in the last couple days on my morning commute, I ve seen a few tractor trailers and pickup s stuck on the side of road....... gelled fuel no doubt.

I vote treat the fuel and avoid getting stuck.

tomorrow's am test at about minus 5
 

flman

Proud Boy, not standing down!
The Anti Gel has been flying off the shelves in every automotive stores in my area, people are using it for their diesel fuel, as well as outdoor home heating oil tanks. My supply was getting low, but I did get 5 quarts of 911 at my local mom and pop auto parts jobber.
 

Aqua Puttana

Poly - Thread Finder
... I"m a convert for winter anti-gel additives (spoke with my MB dealer and they said, yes add additives for below 0F temps.
It's good to know that the dealerships look in on Sprinter-source for their information.

...

I treat my fuel so I don't worry when our ambient drops below 0F maybe -5F. Our ambient can drop to -15F and lower. My method is to begin treating before those temperatures are expected.
...
:tongue:

:lol:

:cheers: vic
 

Paul_E_D

New member
My gelling occurred at a true -15F. Not windchill. That is pretty freakin rare in New England, but it happened a few years back.
 

Scorpion

Member
2 words, Opti-Lube research it I lost the link the XPD formula has the best lubricity score on the market according to independent testing... Back on the gelling subject they also make a winter formula which I have used on every fill up the past 2 winters and never a fuel issue in my old dinosaur 7.3 Powercroak... Hoping for the same results with my new to me Sprinty next winter !
 

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