Stranded in Nevada: Start Error

Pando Populus

New member
Hello everybody! New sprinter owner and new to this forum. Thank you in advanced for any knowledge dropped.

2004 Dodge Sprinter 3500

Drove 500 miles from Sacramento through Nevada, stopped at some back road hot springs in Wells, Nevada and parked at a truck stop to sleep for the night. Woke up in the middle of the night to a random beeping noise coming from somewhere behind the dash. Attempted to start the car and experienced no crank no start. Odometer HUD reads start error. After playing around with it for a while my battery began to drain and continues to do so even when the van is left in the off position. I should mention that about two weeks ago I was at a music festival miles away from any dealerships when my only key broke in half in the back door. Managed to pull the half out with tweezers and inserted it into the ignition in hopes that I could just leave the half in there, insert the other half still attached to the key fob on top of that and start her that way. It worked then and worked without any problems for nearly two weeks of driving it like that. Expensive tow avoided! However now I am curious if leaving half of the key in the ignition is what is draining my battery? I understand that the starter in these vehicles is powered by a wire connected to the ignition itself, as opposed to directly from the battery. Could leaving the half of the key without the key fob and rfid chip be the cause of the battery drain or should I be looking elsewhere for issues? The next day I tried jump starting it which resulted in an improvement of occasionally one crank while hooked up to another running battery, but still no start. I have been stranded here for 3 days now, luckily it died where I have free wifi access from my parking spot so I have spent hours researching a solution and haven't been able to come up with anything yet. Tried disconnecting the battery, fuse box, ECM, and the black box behind the odometer (I think its called a TCU or something?) and may have done something wrong because now my steering wheel is all locked up and I can't turn the key at all. Maybe because I did the wrong order of disconnecting the other components while the battery was still connected or reconnected the battery while other components were still unplugged? Not sure which scenario specifically caused the steering lockup because I tried many different scenarios. Also tried extracting the half key by sticking a magnetized flat head into the ignition, but it wasn't strong enough to pull it out. Called a mechanic in Salt Lake City who said that the steering column is probably locked because it's in anti theft mode from my disconnecting of certain components and it might reset after anywhere from 2 to 24 hours of the battery being connected. I managed to connect a battery charger from my house batteries to the vehicle batteries so it has a steady charge now, hopefully will fix the steering column issue but besides that I'm running out of ideas and had next to no knowledge of sprinters or hardly even cars so I'm sure there could be angles that I'm missing, any and all input is greatly appreciated
 

autostaretx

Erratic Member
Disconnecting the battery for 1 minute should clear any electric "locks" (unless you have the optional immobilizer).

If the shift handle is not in Park, the key won't turn (there's a mechanical cable interlock, no electricity involved)

There is a switch inside the ignition key assembly that detects if your key is still in place (so it can beep if you open the door and forgot to remove the key).

With the key in place, there are a bunch of circuits that are more "woken up" than if the key was removed.
As a quick check, if the odometer display does not turn off, it thinks the key is in place.

With a really flat battery, *many* things act weird... so charge the battery before trying to diagnose much of anything.

The starter is not directly connected to the ignition switch... there's a relay on the fuse panel at the side of the driver's seat.
Turning the key to "start" causes that relay to pull in, and that relay is what powers the starter solenoid (mounted on the starter).
When the solenoid pulls in, it has the beefy contacts that actually connect the battery to the starter itself (crank).
The starter's thick wire (lots of current) runs directly from the battery to the starter solenoid.

The message "start err" usually means that it's not sensing the "chip" in your key's fob (or head).
But, again, if the battery is flat, it may report that message. (think of it as a dying gurgle).

The Sprinter takes a LOT of current to start (starter cranking AND glow plugs), so the battery needs to be pretty full-up. Think 4 hours with a 40 amp charger, 8 with a 20 amp, 16 with a 10 amp. Just coupling the house batteries will help, but simple 12v to 12v won't really hack it... the charger has to exceed 13.6volts, preferably get up to 14.2.
--dick
 
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Pando Populus

New member
The first issue a have to tackle is getting the steering column and my ignition to unlock because after disconnecting and reconnecting the battery, ecm, tcu, and fuse box on a low battery has made it so I can't even turn my key into the first position... so I can't even continue troubleshooting the start error until I solve this dilemma. Does anybody have any clues about unlocking it? already tried charging the battery and leaving it connected for almost 24 hours and locking the doors with the key fob, walking away from the car for 10 min, and return to unlock and still nothing. Am I going to have to get it towed and order a used steering column with key included? Nearest capable mechanic is 220 miles away. Also, where is the starter relay located on a 2004? I've heard its on the side under the drivers seat but its not listed on the panel. I see more relays towards the front under the driver seat but nothing indicating which is which. Should I try to just jump start it by connecting wires through the relay or would that throw it back into anti theft mode?
 
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autostaretx

Erratic Member
Starter relay location (lower rightmost):

FuseBlock2dickLabels.jpg

The "can't turn the key" sounds more like your partial key is no longer properly engaging the tumblers. I think the cylinder can accept a longer key than the Sprinter's, so it may be possible to push it too far in. I'd play with pulling/pushing it a bit.

The service manual does describe how to extract the cylinder... once it's out you can probably turn the switch by creative means (screwdriver or long-nosed pliers).
Service manual: http://diysprinter.co.uk/reference/2006-VA-SM.pdf
(it's in the Steering Column section)

--dick
 

Pando Populus

New member
This is great information, I think this would actually explain why my ignition won't turn whatsoever because if it was just the anti theft lock it should have reset after disconnecting all the other components. Unfortunately the key needs to be turned into first position in order to remove the cylinder which I cannot do as the key is most definitely pushed too far in. Already attempted extracting it with tweezers, paper clip, super glue, and even magnetic tip flat head with no success. Looks like I'm going to have to get it towed after all. My last question, would I be able to order a used steering column that comes with its own key fit for its own lock cylinder and have the dealership reprogram the key and instal it on my sprinter, or would I have to have a new key made? Thanks
 

Dougflas

DAD OWNER
you can probably get a stealership order a cut key that has not had the rfid chip programed. The vehicle will not actually start until the key is programmed to the immobilizer. when I bought my 2005, it only came with one key. I bought a second from the stealership that was cut but not programmed. It did everything except start the vehicle. It cost $45.00 if I remember correctly. As far getting your broken key out, try a dental pick set from Harbor Freight. You may need to use two of them to sandwich the key.
 

autostaretx

Erratic Member
Depending upon what your circumstance are, another approach is to have a drive-by locksmith extract the broken key for you.
They have the tools.
Then you can have them (or another locksmith) cut a new "mechanical" key (no chip) and just duct-tape your old fob against the antenna (the bezel ring around the key slot).
(Better, of course, would be to have the locksmith make you a new chipped key clone after he extracts the broken bit.)

Once the broken key is in hand, any competent locksmith (i.e. not the hardware store) can make a copy.

--dick
 
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surlyoldbill

Well-known member
I had a chipped key cut and cloned at a locksmith in Berkeley for $75. Works just like the factory key, except it doesn't have a fob with controls for the locks.

It may be even less at some locksmiths, and rumor is that SOME Ace Hardware stores have cloning machines and do it for $50.
 

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