Bitcoin: The internet of money and other Cryptocurrencies

autostaretx

Erratic Member
Here in Canada it's not taxable until you withdraw to fiat. Invest $2000, withdraw $2000 zero taxes
... then how is the rest of the withdrawal finally taxed/accounted for?
(for an example: assume invest $2k, value increases to $10k, withdraw $2k now.... and then pull the $8k "next (tax) year")

..and i'm assuming *any* withdrawal from a BitCoin (or stocks) account is "to fiat" hard cash.

--dick
p.s. there is (at least) one case in US taxes where the original principal can be wihdrawn tax-free despite investment value increase: our Roth IRAs. Since the money that went in (the investment) was already taxed $$$, you can remove that principal without re-taxation.
 

Brokecanadian

2005 Cargo 2500 SHC NA
... then how is the rest of the withdrawal finally taxed/accounted for?
(for an example: assume invest $2k, value increases to $10k, withdraw $2k now.... and then pull the $8k "next (tax) year")

..and i'm assuming *any* withdrawal from a BitCoin (or stocks) account is "to fiat" hard cash.

--dick
p.s. there is (at least) one case in US taxes where the original principal can be wihdrawn tax-free despite investment value increase: our Roth IRAs. Since the money that went in (the investment) was already taxed $$$, you can remove that principal without re-taxation.
Bitcoin isn't money. If you buy apple at $15 are you taxed because it's $700? We aren't

Oh sorry you said "withdraw next year" , if you did that it would be taxed at your "dividend tax rate" currently half the personal tax rate here. Withdrawing would be silly though

I am currently trading altcoin/bitcoin pairs, it never re-enters fiat. I'm happy to wait for bitcoin to be a "currency" at some far off future date as I have no need to cash out
 
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autostaretx

Erratic Member
Bitcoin isn't money. If you buy apple at $15 are you taxed because it's $700? We aren't
We are taxed when we sell the shares. A slight quirk happens if the company is bought by another company and some of my holdings are converted to cash (for whatever reason, let's assume the conversion didn't want to create fractional shares, or it was due to the method of company purchase (partial stock conversion, partial cash outlay))... then that cash would be considered a sale (or income) "then".
Oh sorry you said "withdraw next year" , if you did that it would be taxed at your "dividend tax rate" currently half the personal tax rate here. Withdrawing would be silly though
Your exact wording in the original sentence was "I pulled out my original seed money investment 2 months after I began trading" ... which sure sounded like "nailed it back to cash".

I am currently trading altcoin/bitcoin pairs, it never re-enters fiat. I'm happy to wait for bitcoin to be a "currency" at some far off future date as I have no need to cash out
Whereas i think our system would view each altcoin/bitcoin transition to be a "buy/sell" event .. and since the US IRS doesn't (yet) accept BitCoin as "legal tender", you'd have to cough up the tax on the dollar equivalence at the time of the trade.
flman may be better able to discuss the tax consequences of becoming $16 richer.

--dick
 

Brokecanadian

2005 Cargo 2500 SHC NA
We are taxed when we sell the shares. A slight quirk happens if the company is bought by another company and some of my holdings are converted to cash (for whatever reason, let's assume the conversion didn't want to create fractional shares, or it was due to the method of company purchase (partial stock conversion, partial cash outlay))... then that cash would be considered a sale (or income) "then".

Your exact wording in the original sentence was "I pulled out my original seed money investment 2 months after I began trading" ... which sure sounded like "nailed it back to cash".


Whereas i think our system would view each altcoin/bitcoin transition to be a "buy/sell" event .. and since the US IRS doesn't (yet) accept BitCoin as "legal tender", you'd have to cough up the tax on the dollar equivalence at the time of the trade.
flman may be better able to discuss the tax consequences of becoming $16 richer.

--dick
From my perspective I invested $2000 then pulled it out, meaning zero gains. The USA perspective seems quite a bit more complex lol

No gains, no tax...bitcoins aren't "shares" according to what I understand of Canadian taxes. If they insist on being stupid here I'll buy gold with it, then convert it to cash while I'm standing at the counter. Gold isn't money here either

Probably too much is different between Canada / USA. If you avoid taxes here and they suddenly catch you, you can take that bill to your bankruptcy attorney and without enough funds ti cover the bill, poof it goes away...i wouldn't expect that to work in America
 
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autostaretx

Erratic Member
Probably too much is different between Canada / USA. If you avoid taxes here and they suddenly catch you, you can take that bill to your bankruptcy attorney and without enough funds ti cover the bill, poof it goes away...i wouldn't expect that to work in America
In the USA:
(a) i *think* that the lawyer's bill has precedence over the Govt's in your example.
(b) for estate taxes, i *know* that the lawyer's bill gets paid first.

--dick (who's only done the paperwork for (b))
p.s. how to cause (partial) "poof" in the US: https://www.nolo.com/legal-encyclopedia/bankruptcy-tax-debts-eliminating-29550.html
 
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autostaretx

Erratic Member
Some cryptocurrency miners are seeking diversified sources of income... such as renting out their computer farms to AI and deep-data folks:

https://www.eurekalert.org/pub_releases/2018-02/imi-act022118.php

"AI companies to reuse crypto mining farms for deep learning in healthcare"

Longenesis, Ltd, a Hong Kong-based leader in applying the latest advances in deep learning and blockchain technologies to healthcare announced a research collaboration agreement with Neuromation, Ltd, a Tallinn, Estonia-based company focused on transforming the cryptographic mining infrastructure into a massive cloud for deep learning applications. Neuromation recently successfully raised over $70 million through a token generating event (TGE) to develop a system for generation of the synthetic data using the deep neural networks trained on a large number of examples and using the processing power of the many graphics processing units (GPUs) in the blockchain community.

"Here at Neuromation, we are developing a platform that will democratize AI development by making the computational resources more accessible to AI practitioners; the computational power will come mostly from cryptocurrency miners wishing to earn more from their GPU farms and/or diversify their business. But even if you do have the computational power, you still have to have the data to train machine learning models on", said Maxim Prasolov, the CEO of Neuromation.

Both companies are developing global ecosystems using blockchain technologies. The approach utilized by Longenesis was recently published in a peer-reviewed journal. The is developing a secure ecosystem to allow the individuals to take control over their life data and profit from selling or licensing it to the application developers. The application developers need access to the high-performance computing solutions to be able to train the deep neural networks that can be used to provide the valuable health-related services back to the individuals or to discover new life-saving therapy. Neuromation aspires to become one of the largest providers of the computing infrastructure for deep learning by repurposing the enormous installed base of the existing mining infrastructure.

"We are excited to partner with Neuromation. We previously published with their CSO and hold their research capabilities in high regard. Our collaboration is two-fold. First, to train the deep neural networks we need processing power and we are looking to repurpose the cryptocurrency mining equipment to do that. Second, to generate synthetic data, one must train on large data sets of real-world data and have balanced and diverse data sets, so Neuromation is an obvious consumer of data and can be a part of the marketplace", said Alex Zhavoronkov, PhD, CSO of Longenesis Limited.

"The primary aim of Longenesis is to create a global data marketplace that will help provide personalized but at the same time secure data for healthcare application developers. Hence, the missions of Neuromation and Longenesis are perfectly complementary to each other. Together we will bring to AI practitioners in medicine and healthcare both the data and the computational power needed to train AI models and improve healthcare throughout the world. By announcing this partnership, we are laying the foundation for the future world of individualized healthcare based on artificial intelligence", said Sergey Nikolenko, PhD, the Chief Research Officer of Neuromation.

The companies agreed to bridge each the ecosystems to enable rapid expansion and allow the large corporations to procure a large amount of data from the individuals consenting to the specific uses of their data and to procure the high-performance computing infrastructure required to train the deep neural networks.
--------

--dick :popcorn:
 

autostaretx

Erratic Member
BitCoin followers may be interested in this article (and paper) on how BitCoin transactions can be *traced*, thanks to retro analysis of the blockchain.

https://www.eurekalert.org/pub_releases/2018-03/ntso-etp032318.php

Exposed: The path of ransomware payments
Hackers' preference for a Russian Bitcoin exchange and the prevalence of South Korean victims are among the surprises revealed by study led by NYU Tandon cybersecurity researcher; work could help law enforcement track cyber criminals

---dick
 

bitma

New member
I believe that crypto market is going to skyrocket. Look at btc trendline, it’s wonderful - though it had hard times at the beginning of the year, the overall history chart indicate growth. Once btc goes up, altcoins must go up as well. Which alts would you recommend to buy? Need 2-3 names to diversify portfolio a bit. What you think about cloud mining considering that Bitcoin is rising now? I just got this link (http://ccgminingcode.com/) and want to figure out how much I can earn. If I can at all. So, any ideas on cloud services?
 
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D

Deleted member 50714

Guest
Warren Buffet, much smarter than all you guys combined, says cyptocurrancies are "RAT POISON!"
 

flman

Roadrunner, Genius of Birds ALWAYS WINS! NO FAILS!
I believe that crypto market is going to skyrocket. Look at btc trendline, it’s wonderful - though it had hard times at the beginning of the year, the overall history chart indicate growth. Once btc goes up, altcoins must go up as well. Which alts would you recommend to buy? Need 2-3 names to diversify portfolio a bit. What you think about cloud mining considering that Bitcoin is rising now? I just got this link (http://ccgminingcode.com/) and want to figure out how much I can earn. If I can at all. So, any ideas on cloud services?

You join a Sprinter forum and your 1 and only post is about bitcoin? Okay? :crazy:
 

GaryJ

Here since 2006
You join a Sprinter forum and your 1 and only post is about bitcoin? Okay? :crazy:
Is this the pot calling the kettle black? You drive a Transit and are most prolific in the danger zone. Please give others a break rather than only continuing your penchant for criticism and ridicule. Its a different way of communicating. Try it.

Gary
 
D

Deleted member 50714

Guest
As much as GaryJ bitches about you Flman, I am curious why he hasn't placed you on his Ignore List?
 
D

Deleted member 50714

Guest
So, how does one make a Bitcoin transaction without a computer or other elektronix device???
 

flman

Roadrunner, Genius of Birds ALWAYS WINS! NO FAILS!
Is this the pot calling the kettle black? You drive a Transit and are most prolific in the danger zone. Please give others a break rather than only continuing your penchant for criticism and ridicule. Its a different way of communicating. Try it.

Gary

And what other vehicles do I drive?


Why do you think a 1 post spammer deserves recognition?



Good one coming from the guy that thanked icky when he was whining about shutting down the DZ, you 2 hypocrites go well together.
 

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