DPF delete

barnis

New member
i just ordered a DPF delete pipe and computer reprogram and the instructions that they sent were a bit vague. does anyone have any links to videos or guides on removing the DPF? there seems to be several sensors that they also request removal of. any help would be appreciated or recommendation for southern california workshop.

thanks.

FYI this is in order to take my van to s central america.
 

blfmtriv

living in the Top End NT
i am just about to remove and inspect my DPF, i,ve read that some DPF are putting excessive back pressure in sump and bypassing up the rings , causing all sorts of sump and cam shaft pressures.
i would like to try and find a wiring schedlue for the connection number to the computer and oe volts

will watch this thread

andrew
 

220629

Well-known member
Not that anyone asked...
Remove sensors and visible parts? I would be concerned that passing annual emissions visual parts inspections could be a problem. Don't you want to "Walk like a duck"?

To be clear, my comments are made out of curiosity. I have no interest in removing or altering my emissions system. That has been discussed ad nauseum in other threads.

:cheers: vic
 

ptheland

2013 144" low top Passgr
i am just about to remove and inspect my DPF, i,ve read that some DPF are putting excessive back pressure in sump and bypassing up the rings , causing all sorts of sump and cam shaft pressures.
This sounds like a bunch of hogwash to me.

For a moment, let's assume the DPF actually can cause additional back pressure. So let's see where that extra pressure would be. We'll go backwards through the exhaust system to figure out what might be affected.

First, you'd have the exhaust pipe between the DPF and the turbo. That's all pretty good metal there. A bit of increased pressure isn't likely to cause any leaks. The weak point is probably the flex pipe, but that weakness is in it's bracket and not the pressure it needs to hold.

There might be a piece of the exhaust gas treatment system in here as well. Perhaps the SCS cat?? I'm not sure. At any rate, it's another wide spot in the pipe. No connection to the sump or cam. Maybe some impact on the way it treats the exhaust stream.

Next thing back is the turbo. A bit of extra exhaust pressure there might have a small effect the turbo's performance, but that's it.

Then we've got another bit of piping and the exhaust manifold. Nothing interesting there.

Now we're back to the engine proper - the head, valves, cylinder bore and piston. Finally, a potential connection to the sump and camshaft. What is the biggest pressure in this area? The power stroke by a huge margin. But let's just look at the compression stroke.

With a compression ratio something north of 15:1, we're looking at a minimum of 220 psi at the top of the compression stroke using normal atmospheric pressure. We then need to add in the additional air from the turbo. I think a Sprinter's maximum boost roughly doubles atmospheric pressure, which would roughly double the pressure at the top of the compression stroke. Then you have to add in the pressure from burning the fuel.

At this point, I was going to take a WAG at what that pressure might be. But then Mr. Google saved me from myself and turned up this chart of pressures in a cylinder. http://performancetrends.com/Definitions/Images/Cylinder-Pressure-Lrg.gif Granted, that's for a gasoline engine and not a diesel. (You can tell that from the label showing where the spark occurs.) It's also not a turbocharged engine, from the pressure below atmospheric during the intake stroke. But in spite of these differences, it's still useful for our purposes.

From the chart, you can see that pressure peaks at over 700 psi. I wouldn't be surprised if a turbo diesel engine's peak is over 1000 psi. But we'll stick with that 700.

Let's leave this for a moment. How does a sump or crankcase get pressurized? That would be from gasses getting past the piston rings, of course. And when are those gasses going to get past the rings? Is that going to happen when pressures are from 200-700 psi during the power stroke? Or when pressures are 50-100 psi during the exhaust stroke?

Now, let's talk about the pressure sensors in the exhaust system. A common test of those sensors is to turn the ignition on, but don't start the engine. Then get the actual readings from the sensors. Since they're all exposed to atmospheric pressure in this test setting, they should all read the same, give or take a bit of tolerance. So what is that tolerance? IIRC, it's 5 millibars.

Drat, different units. Mr. Google to the rescue again. 1 psi is about 69 millibars. (68.9476 if google is to be believed.) Stated the other way, 1 millibar is about 0.0145 psi.

Our spec is 5 millibars, which is about .0725 psi.

That's how accurately your Sprinter is measuring pressures in your exhaust system. Get beyond that difference, and you can get spurious readings and probably a check engine light. But more importantly, get far enough away from the expected values and your car is going to notice. How far is far enough? I have no idea, and I'm getting tired of referring to Mr. Google. (OK - I did one search and didn't find anything. Plus this post is getting too long anyway.) Let's use a swag and say that 10 psi is far enough. The system is certainly capable of measuring much smaller pressure differences (by a couple orders of magnitude).

Back to exhaust back pressure and the questions I left hanging a couple paragraphs back. When is blowby going to occur? It's mainly going to occur during the power stroke. If the rings are really bad, you might get some during the compression and exhaust strokes as well. (And with a turbocharged engine, a bit even during the intake stroke is possible.) A 10 psi increase in exhaust back pressure is barely a blip in the big picture. That's not going to cause any significant increase in crankcase pressures.

On the cam side, the only time exhaust pressure comes into play is in opening the exhaust valve. That happens with cylinder pressures in the 100 psi range. If anything extra pressure in the exhaust system behind the valve would reduce the pressure difference between the cylinder and exhaust port, making the valve easier to open.

In short (really, after this book length post????) I find the claim that sump or cam pressures are affected by a DPF to be silly.
 

blfmtriv

living in the Top End NT
gday PTHELAND from down under

nice read

Well I,m not into washing any hogs but I can advise in my thoughts

I,m just about to have a dpf delete and egr off program put through

Kess v2 and alien ware, the vehicle has done 360k k,s
crankcase pressurization is not an unknown issue

you don't mention the step up pressurization from the turbo boost
my comment is specified to a bi-turbo system, which is more like a 2 stroke powerband, where the pressure is not linear

but extremely vertical pitched after an intake suction protocol, this has the issue of over-pressurization due to mechanical advantage via engine reciprocating weight
meaning the turbo races off under intake load but cannot vent overpressurization and forces boost back into the engine uncontrolled through exhaust manifold
and whatever means to the crankcase


massive pressures are exerted onto the big end bearings and can force oil pressures to be severely reduced. due to this anomaly.

in theory, new engines are great but practicably, they all wear and bypass is a system of engineering


andrew
 

Gessippi

Member
If you had been on this board awhile you would have noticed, the leaf licker's pounce pretty quick when ANYONE brings up any question about altering there poorly designed (due to unrealistic federal mandates) and expensive to maintain emission system.

It looks daunting, but from the exhaust behind the DPF it's easiest to leave all the sensors in the pipe, follow the the sensors wire back to the the control box mounted on the body, unbolt and unplug them there. On the DPF there is pressure sensor tube for and aft, you need to unhook them,follow those lines up and unplug and remove the whole works from just under the cabin air filter box. The clamp where the DPF attaches to the turbo is barely visible and has a Torx bolt, you can get it off with the 12 point ratchet wrench, unscrew the rest of the sensors from the DPF and unbolt the bracket hold it to the motor ( mine was already broken), and it should slide out.

FIXmyvw.com has a complete replacement exhaust for what you are doing.

PM me if the Whale saving gets deep.
 
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blfmtriv

living in the Top End NT
i get mine back tomorrow, cant wait to see the improvement, i haven't done it for power I did it for engine saving as my van can run 15 hours straight at 110kph in the remote outback of Australia

andrew
 

owner

Oz '03 316CDI LWB ex-Ambo Patient Transport
i get mine back tomorrow, cant wait to see the improvement, i haven't done it for power I did it for engine saving as my van can run 15 hours straight at 110kph in the remote outback of Australia

andrew
Where did you get it done?
 

Sinner

New member
Interesting thread.
Leaf Lickers ?
Entertaining

OK there's a RawTek Sprinter 3.0L 2010-2018 DPF delete parts kit (tuning required0
And a D Tuner Depot 2010-2018 mercedes sprinter 3.0L 3" performance exhaust system (DPF delete)

I'm looking at
Mostly because of problems with dealers honoring the warranty. I have a turbo cutting in and out and eating outrageous amount of oil and the dealer adamantly refuses to take the thing off and inspect it. Claims it looks fine, without taking it off to even inspect it. Unbelievable. Replaced most of the stuff around it at three different shops and now this latest clown won't repair the problem which has always been the turbo.

If I'm forced to do it myself I'm axing the all that exhaust crap behind it.
 

OrioN

2008 2500 170" EXT
Interesting thread.
Leaf Lickers ?
Entertaining

OK there's a RawTek Sprinter 3.0L 2010-2018 DPF delete parts kit (tuning required0
And a D Tuner Depot 2010-2018 mercedes sprinter 3.0L 3" performance exhaust system (DPF delete)

I'm looking at
Mostly because of problems with dealers honoring the warranty. I have a turbo cutting in and out and eating outrageous amount of oil and the dealer adamantly refuses to take the thing off and inspect it. Claims it looks fine, without taking it off to even inspect it. Unbelievable. Replaced most of the stuff around it at three different shops and now this latest clown won't repair the problem which has always been the turbo.

If I'm forced to do it myself I'm axing the all that exhaust crap behind it.
bs.gif
 

OldAmbulance

Well-known member
Interesting thread.
Leaf Lickers ?
Entertaining

OK there's a RawTek Sprinter 3.0L 2010-2018 DPF delete parts kit (tuning required0
And a D Tuner Depot 2010-2018 mercedes sprinter 3.0L 3" performance exhaust system (DPF delete)

I'm looking at
Mostly because of problems with dealers honoring the warranty. I have a turbo cutting in and out and eating outrageous amount of oil and the dealer adamantly refuses to take the thing off and inspect it. Claims it looks fine, without taking it off to even inspect it. Unbelievable. Replaced most of the stuff around it at three different shops and now this latest clown won't repair the problem which has always been the turbo.

If I'm forced to do it myself I'm axing the all that exhaust crap behind it.
How are you so sure it's the turbo? Do you have oil in the down pipe? Oil in the intake pipes? When you say the turbo is cutting in and out what trouble codes is it throwing? How many miles on the van? What model year? What engine?
 

Sinner

New member
Well it ate about 25 or so quarts of oil in about 1500 miles and the turbo was in and out the whole way, it finally gave up about 40 miles out and when it cooled off it started working again but intermittently. The engine starts and runs fine, has good power when it's running right. previous work was to replace fouled glow plugs and the filter can. The dealer I brought it to said his service guidelines only allow him to clean the EGR valve. He refused to take the turbo off and check the stuff you are asking about. IMHO all that other stuff was just symptoms of a bad seal in the turbo.

The check engine light was on but what code in offered wasn't on the report they sent me, the van has 200k on it,6 cylinder diesel 2011.
IMHO it's screaming turbocharger. OH and the oil is dark dark black. Indicating to me at least there's a bearing going out.
 

Kajtek1

2015 3500 X long limo RV
.... OH and the oil is dark dark black. Indicating to me at least there's a bearing going out.
Oil in diesels is always black.
Instead of judging from coffee grinds, you should send oil sample for lab test.
$25 at blackstonelab.
 
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