Click no start- some tips.

mhobson

New member
The three small grey relays below the main fuse block and the five grey relays under the drivers seat all have the same part number, I swapped them around yesterday, no change unfortunately, I have no idea what else to try.
 

mhobson

New member
Could it be that the main ecu has blown, I have not heard of it on cdi vans but I know there were a load of ecu problems on the pre cdi 310 and 312 vans.
 

mhobson

New member
The three small grey relays under the main fuse block are the same part number as the 5 grey relays under the seat, I have swapped them around but the same fault persists, I wonder if the ECU has blown?
 

Midwestdrifter

Engineer In Residence
ECU failures are pretty rare. Can you communicate with the ECU/ECM with a scan tool?

Your van should have chipped keys. Since you are not getting a start error on teh instrument cluster, you most likely have a problem in the following areas.

The start contacts on the ignition switch are not working.

The starter trigger wire is not providing enough current to actuate the starters solenoid. This can be caused by a bad engine ground strap, corroded connections etc.

The starters solenoid is jammed, or the contacts are burnt. You need to investigate if the starter relay is activating, and if so, is the starter solenoid getting power on the trigger wire.
 
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mhobson

New member
Thank you midwestdrifter, yes I think you are right that a scan tool is what is required, I only have one for Audi/VW. As I said when I turn the key to start position no current flows to the solenoid trigger connection, but when I connect the battery directly to the solenoid trigger the started works correctly but the engine will not run so I suspect the fuel cut off has not opened so it is more a security starting issue. I have phoned an auto electrician who suggested I disconnect the battery for 10 minutes and then reconnect it, which can sometimes reset the ECU but alas no go. I hope to get him around with his scan tool early next week.
 

Skippy and Emu

Active member
My Sprinter has had the same problem for a number of years. Still unresolved , I just work around it.
The ignition has 4 positions. Off, accessories, run and START. Mine will start if I apply power direct to the solonoid AT THE SAME TIME AS I HOLD THE KEY IN THE START POSITION . Usually takes 2 people to achieve this initially, until you can get something more permanent wired up. Good luck, I have given up wasting time trying to fix mine.
 

mhobson

New member
Had a man read codes today, no fault codes recorded. Since I disconnected the battery and reconnected after half hour it seems the fuel cutoff now works but no power to starter trigger connection. If I bypass the starter trigger circuit the van now starts but will not start on key. I have removed the electrical switch from the ignition lock and am having it tested and if that fails it must be the fuse block itself I think. I find it hard to believe that there is no fuse on the starter circuit as that would be an obvious culprit but I have searched all over and cannot find one, can this really be true? It seems there are starter fuses on later models but cannot find one here. If I do solve it I will post the solution ----------------- but don't hold your breath.
 

tonyinmemphis

New member
Click no start- THE EASIEST TEST 1 OF 2 THINGS 1- Jumper cable from ground post from battery to the Metal bar on motor. ( note motor to frame ground is bad) 2- jumper cable from other car/van to pos. (+) post and sprinter not starting clamp to the motor TO GROUND THE STARTER. It took me 6 months to find. Stared when it want to and 1 click no start when it wanted too. A GROUND CABLE $15.00 CAN BE RUN TO THE MOTOR TO GROUND POST OF BATTERY.
 

jkimpossible

New member
Hi, Could you please rephrase your statement? Especially your point #2? Maybe some photos for your work-around? Thanks, jkimpossible.
 

PadiKEL5

New member
The diagnostic that Eric Experience provided for the "click no start" problem has been a great tool, however I get stuck when diagnosing the starter relay. When I energize the system with key on, dash lights on, I can feel the fuel pump relay click. Can't feel anything in the starter relay. Pulled the starter relay. Pin 30 which should have 12 volts has .4 . Pin 87 has 0 volts. Conflicting info in the later post that pin 30 doesn't have voltage until the key is turned to energize the starter has me confused and wondering if the problem is in my ignition switch not delivering voltage when "on". Quite honestly, I'm concerned about frying the ecu testing these voltages, like the 85 and 86, plugging each end of the VOM into each slot and turning the key. Didn't check them yet because I didn't have 12 volts at pin 30.
 
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Aqua Puttana

Poly - Thread Finder
For T1N Intermittent Crank Testing

The chip and SKREEM are not affected by an ignition switch contact assembly replacement.

Not that you asked...

I would add a semi permanent test light to the Violet wire off the ignition switch. It is likely fairly easily available on the 87 terminal of the Start Relay. (Pull the relay out slightly and clip to the slide contact, or pull the relay, wrap a thin wire around the spade lug, re-install to just trap a thin tap wire in there.) Any longer tap wires used should be fused. Short(er) wires present less problems because the OEM fuse will be good enough for short circuit protection.

That light will verify 2 important things. It will monitor the 12+ out of the ignition switch and will be a pretty good indicator that the Start Request/enable is getting to the ECM. It will not 100% verify a ECM connector pin issue, or Splice S219 problem though. Note: The ECM triggers/enables the Start Relay by switching the negative.

:2cents: vic

Edit:
I added the test light to the 8w-20-06 diagram post #6 above.

And some interpretation of the 8w-20-06 Schematic.

Since the older copy that you presented, I've added to my 8w-20-06 schematic notes.

View attachment 102738

Someone reminded me that the ignition switch can stop the start operation by simply turning the key back off.

The ignition switch power requests a start aka enables the ECM (ECU). The start sequence is ultimately controlled by the ECM. If the ECM isn't happy with pre-start checks there will be no Start Relay activation. ("HAL. I would like to start the engine please.")

The 12+ volt power from the ignition switch directly powers the starter solenoid (subject to the start relay) and also powers pin #38 (36?) or #20 which signals the ECM that you want to start the engine.

The Pin #38 (36?) or #20 being labelled "Ignition Switch Output (Start)" could be confusing in that it might be interpreted that the 12+ volt power emits out of the ECM. The Ignition Switch Output actually provides power in to that ECM pin for an enable.

:2cents: vic
8w-20-06StartFuelRelaywNotes3.jpg

8w-10-13IgnitionSwitchwNotes01.jpg

From a recent thread. Test lights were added. :thumbup:

Occasional No Start - But always starts on 2nd Attempt
https://sprinter-source.com/forum/showthread.php?p=759934#post759934

I'll start with this first so it doesn't get lost.

Maybe related?: My "key lock" function does not work (see page 21-168 of service manual). I can remove the key without putting the vehicle in park.
I can't say whether it is related or not. It could, might be a related symptom. It may be worth correcting that in case it is related. I believe that the basic interlock is a cable operation. If the condition is repeatable enough, you might try moving the shift lever to Neutral for all of starting operations. If the problem doesn't present, then the key retention feature/adjustment *may* be related. That said, moving or adding test lights as I describe further on should avoid repairing the key related mechanical problem [unnecessarily, for the present problem anyway].

So I added two test lights, as recommended. For a week or two, the symptoms never presented which led me to think installing the test lights was enough to seat an improperly seated test relay.
The test lights should help.

BUT...it has now resurfaced: The test light connected to the start relay coil is always lit when it should be.
S108 is getting power as it should to feed the Start Relay and Fuel Pump Relay when the Ignition Switch is in Position 2 or 3.


When the no-start-no-crank occurs, the test light attached to pin 87 of start relay does NOT light. Is this enough to indict the ignition switch such that I should go ahead and replace it, or is there something else I should look into?
:hmmm:
Without S219 getting power, the ECM aka ECU won't get the Start Enable signal. Or maybe the ECM does get the signal, but not to where your test light is connected. It could be possible that S219 is a problem.

Moving, or adding a test light to the FB#1 C3-3 12 VT wire should answer the S219 possibility.

Answer for orange highlight above.
Not necessarily. The 12 VT Violet wire is fed by the ignition switch 14 BK/YL through the FB#1. IN = FB#1 C2-2. OUT = FB#1 C3-3. The next move for me would be to put a test light on the BK/YL wire. That should narrow it down to either the Ignition Switch, or something related to the FB#1 circuit, not necessarily the FB#1 proper though. The 14 BK/YL wire is likely only available to you at the Ignition Switch proper.

View attachment 110838 - [Refer to above schematics]

View attachment 110839 - [Refer to above schematics]

:2cents: vic
NoStartChecks.jpg
 
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Aqua Puttana

Poly - Thread Finder
I noticed that there are 2 ea. Ignition Switch 12 volt supplies needed to activate the Start Relay and Starter. For No Crank symptoms it is necessary to add 2 ea. test lights to help to check whether the ignition switch may be the problem.

To power the Fuel Pump Relay the Ignition Switch 12 volts from the S108 splice remains powered after starting. The Start Relay and the Fuel Pump Relay power share the circuit, and therefore the fuse which feeds S108.

8w-20-06StartFuelRelaywNotes3.jpg

8w-30-18StartFuelRelaywNotes.jpg

:cheers: vic

Added:
And some info from another thread. (It may be a duplication.)

... but you'll see on the diagram that the solenoid has two coils: a "pull-in", and a "hold" ...
...
--dick
Since the older copy that you presented, I've added to my 8w-20-06 schematic notes.

View attachment 102737

Someone reminded me that the ignition switch can stop the start operation by simply turning the key back off.

The ignition switch power requests a start aka enables the ECM (ECU). The start sequence is ultimately controlled by the ECM. If the ECM isn't happy with pre-start checks there will be no Start Relay activation. ("HAL. I would like to start the engine please.")

The 12+ volt power from the ignition switch directly powers the starter solenoid (subject to the start relay) and also powers pin #38 (36?) or #20 which signals the ECM that you want to start the engine.

The Pin #38 (36?) or #20 being labelled "Ignition Switch Output (Start)" could be confusing in that it might be interpreted that the 12+ volt power emits out of the ECM. The Ignition Switch Output actually provides power in to that ECM pin for an enable.

:2cents: vic

NoStartChecks.jpg

NoStartDiagnosis.png
 
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andreisana4

New member
Dear members, I can't figure out how to start my 2012 Mercedes-Benz sprinter 2500 3.0l even after many many hours of web surfing and labor. I hope someone who's reading now can help.
My van's engine shutdown while I was driving it, seemed like key was turned off but all the gages and lights was working fine. The message check dpf was on the dash board so I suspected that this could be the reason for ECU to set interminent no start condition.



First diagnostic test showed multiple faults related to SCR unit, i said to myself this is the moment, and I did first stage tune with all of the benefits for the engine attached to it. I cutted the particular filter out, replaced fuel filter, cam and crank position sensors, inspected wiring harnesses, fuses all get power except those for SCR unit, changed rellays with place..
Miracle did not happen, van still does not crank, fuel pump and starter short ground.

My question is : what am I doing wrong, what can my problem be caused by and does anyone from Chicago area can help? (had bad experiences with MB dealers in the past don't want to be disappointed with them again)




Sent from my SM-G965U using Tapatalk
 

DavidAlejandro7

New member
I tried the Eric Jumper Method, carefully following the directions, but with no success. The vehicle in question is a 2006 T1N with 270,000 miles on it. I returned from a three hour trip and shut the vehicle down. I attempted to restart it about an hour later and it would not start. It made some clicking but no start and a fan was coming on, it sounded like the radiator fan, but we had just driven three hours nonstop on the highway. I pulled the battery and charged it to capacity a few times just to be sure, reinstalled the battery, and attempted to start the vehicle. There was plenty of clicking, but no fan at this time. Sadly I did not get it to turn over or start.
Any ideas? I live in Dayton Ohio. Are there any good shops within an hour or so of here that anybody knows about? I don’t want to give up on this vehicle, but I need something that runs.
 

bkmallan

New member
I had my sprinter flat bedded to a dealer with the same issue. Turns out it was a bad ground. Problem solved with minimal expense
 

dondiver

New member
New to forum a month ago when I had my first "NO START, NO CRANK" situation with 2008 Sprinter 3500 Winnebago VIew. Tried many things. Found that ground pin on ECM relay was not showing grounded. If you pinched the box van would start and run for a short period. Took to MB dealer to check fuse box and replace. 2 + weeks later I have a new CDI and a $2200 bill.

Is there a way to test the CDI they replaced to see if it was truly faulty? I would love to test if possible.
 

lindenengineering

Well-known member
Did you get the old one back ?
Usually they are core exchange.
If its in your possession send it to SOS Diagnostics for test and and overview.
Dennis
 

Merrick46

New member
I have a 2005 sprinter 311 in the uk . Parked it up yesterdaY running fine . Went to Start it today and it has no power to starter or fuel pump as when I bridged the starter wire it just turns over . Checked relays fuses ect any ideas cheers
 

Aqua Puttana

Poly - Thread Finder
Turns over would indicate the battery is ok. Any evidence of attempts to steal it or other damage?

Closely check each and every fuse under the steering column. A less likely fuse problem would be in the fuses under the driver seat.

vic
 

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