Click no start- some tips.

mhobson

New member
Had a man read codes today, no fault codes recorded. Since I disconnected the battery and reconnected after half hour it seems the fuel cutoff now works but no power to starter trigger connection. If I bypass the starter trigger circuit the van now starts but will not start on key. I have removed the electrical switch from the ignition lock and am having it tested and if that fails it must be the fuse block itself I think. I find it hard to believe that there is no fuse on the starter circuit as that would be an obvious culprit but I have searched all over and cannot find one, can this really be true? It seems there are starter fuses on later models but cannot find one here. If I do solve it I will post the solution ----------------- but don't hold your breath.
 

tonyinmemphis

New member
Click no start- THE EASIEST TEST 1 OF 2 THINGS 1- Jumper cable from ground post from battery to the Metal bar on motor. ( note motor to frame ground is bad) 2- jumper cable from other car/van to pos. (+) post and sprinter not starting clamp to the motor TO GROUND THE STARTER. It took me 6 months to find. Stared when it want to and 1 click no start when it wanted too. A GROUND CABLE $15.00 CAN BE RUN TO THE MOTOR TO GROUND POST OF BATTERY.
 

jkimpossible

New member
Hi, Could you please rephrase your statement? Especially your point #2? Maybe some photos for your work-around? Thanks, jkimpossible.
 

PadiKEL5

New member
The diagnostic that Eric Experience provided for the "click no start" problem has been a great tool, however I get stuck when diagnosing the starter relay. When I energize the system with key on, dash lights on, I can feel the fuel pump relay click. Can't feel anything in the starter relay. Pulled the starter relay. Pin 30 which should have 12 volts has .4 . Pin 87 has 0 volts. Conflicting info in the later post that pin 30 doesn't have voltage until the key is turned to energize the starter has me confused and wondering if the problem is in my ignition switch not delivering voltage when "on". Quite honestly, I'm concerned about frying the ecu testing these voltages, like the 85 and 86, plugging each end of the VOM into each slot and turning the key. Didn't check them yet because I didn't have 12 volts at pin 30.
 
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Aqua Puttana

Poly - Thread Finder
For T1N Intermittent Crank Testing

The chip and SKREEM are not affected by an ignition switch contact assembly replacement.

Not that you asked...

I would add a semi permanent test light to the Violet wire off the ignition switch. It is likely fairly easily available on the 87 terminal of the Start Relay. (Pull the relay out slightly and clip to the slide contact, or pull the relay, wrap a thin wire around the spade lug, re-install to just trap a thin tap wire in there.) Any longer tap wires used should be fused. Short(er) wires present less problems because the OEM fuse will be good enough for short circuit protection.

That light will verify 2 important things. It will monitor the 12+ out of the ignition switch and will be a pretty good indicator that the Start Request/enable is getting to the ECM. It will not 100% verify a ECM connector pin issue, or Splice S219 problem though. Note: The ECM triggers/enables the Start Relay by switching the negative.

:2cents: vic

Edit:
I added the test light to the 8w-20-06 diagram post #6 above.

And some interpretation of the 8w-20-06 Schematic.

Since the older copy that you presented, I've added to my 8w-20-06 schematic notes.

View attachment 102738

Someone reminded me that the ignition switch can stop the start operation by simply turning the key back off.

The ignition switch power requests a start aka enables the ECM (ECU). The start sequence is ultimately controlled by the ECM. If the ECM isn't happy with pre-start checks there will be no Start Relay activation. ("HAL. I would like to start the engine please.")

The 12+ volt power from the ignition switch directly powers the starter solenoid (subject to the start relay) and also powers pin #38 (36?) or #20 which signals the ECM that you want to start the engine.

The Pin #38 (36?) or #20 being labelled "Ignition Switch Output (Start)" could be confusing in that it might be interpreted that the 12+ volt power emits out of the ECM. The Ignition Switch Output actually provides power in to that ECM pin for an enable.

:2cents: vic
8w-20-06StartFuelRelaywNotes3.jpg

8w-10-13IgnitionSwitchwNotes01.jpg

From a recent thread. Test lights were added. :thumbup:

Occasional No Start - But always starts on 2nd Attempt
https://sprinter-source.com/forum/showthread.php?p=759934#post759934

I'll start with this first so it doesn't get lost.

Maybe related?: My "key lock" function does not work (see page 21-168 of service manual). I can remove the key without putting the vehicle in park.
I can't say whether it is related or not. It could, might be a related symptom. It may be worth correcting that in case it is related. I believe that the basic interlock is a cable operation. If the condition is repeatable enough, you might try moving the shift lever to Neutral for all of starting operations. If the problem doesn't present, then the key retention feature/adjustment *may* be related. That said, moving or adding test lights as I describe further on should avoid repairing the key related mechanical problem [unnecessarily, for the present problem anyway].

So I added two test lights, as recommended. For a week or two, the symptoms never presented which led me to think installing the test lights was enough to seat an improperly seated test relay.
The test lights should help.

BUT...it has now resurfaced: The test light connected to the start relay coil is always lit when it should be.
S108 is getting power as it should to feed the Start Relay and Fuel Pump Relay when the Ignition Switch is in Position 2 or 3.


When the no-start-no-crank occurs, the test light attached to pin 87 of start relay does NOT light. Is this enough to indict the ignition switch such that I should go ahead and replace it, or is there something else I should look into?
:hmmm:
Without S219 getting power, the ECM aka ECU won't get the Start Enable signal. Or maybe the ECM does get the signal, but not to where your test light is connected. It could be possible that S219 is a problem.

Moving, or adding a test light to the FB#1 C3-3 12 VT wire should answer the S219 possibility.

Answer for orange highlight above.
Not necessarily. The 12 VT Violet wire is fed by the ignition switch 14 BK/YL through the FB#1. IN = FB#1 C2-2. OUT = FB#1 C3-3. The next move for me would be to put a test light on the BK/YL wire. That should narrow it down to either the Ignition Switch, or something related to the FB#1 circuit, not necessarily the FB#1 proper though. The 14 BK/YL wire is likely only available to you at the Ignition Switch proper.

View attachment 110838 - [Refer to above schematics]

View attachment 110839 - [Refer to above schematics]

:2cents: vic
NoStartChecks.jpg
 
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Aqua Puttana

Poly - Thread Finder
I noticed that there are 2 ea. Ignition Switch 12 volt supplies needed to activate the Start Relay and Starter. For No Crank symptoms it is necessary to add 2 ea. test lights to help to check whether the ignition switch may be the problem.

To power the Fuel Pump Relay the Ignition Switch 12 volts from the S108 splice remains powered after starting. The Start Relay and the Fuel Pump Relay power share the circuit, and therefore the fuse which feeds S108.

8w-20-06StartFuelRelaywNotes3.jpg

8w-30-18StartFuelRelaywNotes.jpg

:cheers: vic

Added:
And some info from another thread. (It may be a duplication.)

... but you'll see on the diagram that the solenoid has two coils: a "pull-in", and a "hold" ...
...
--dick
Since the older copy that you presented, I've added to my 8w-20-06 schematic notes.

View attachment 102737

Someone reminded me that the ignition switch can stop the start operation by simply turning the key back off.

The ignition switch power requests a start aka enables the ECM (ECU). The start sequence is ultimately controlled by the ECM. If the ECM isn't happy with pre-start checks there will be no Start Relay activation. ("HAL. I would like to start the engine please.")

The 12+ volt power from the ignition switch directly powers the starter solenoid (subject to the start relay) and also powers pin #38 (36?) or #20 which signals the ECM that you want to start the engine.

The Pin #38 (36?) or #20 being labelled "Ignition Switch Output (Start)" could be confusing in that it might be interpreted that the 12+ volt power emits out of the ECM. The Ignition Switch Output actually provides power in to that ECM pin for an enable.

:2cents: vic

NoStartChecks.jpg

NoStartDiagnosis.png
 
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andreisana4

New member
Dear members, I can't figure out how to start my 2012 Mercedes-Benz sprinter 2500 3.0l even after many many hours of web surfing and labor. I hope someone who's reading now can help.
My van's engine shutdown while I was driving it, seemed like key was turned off but all the gages and lights was working fine. The message check dpf was on the dash board so I suspected that this could be the reason for ECU to set interminent no start condition.



First diagnostic test showed multiple faults related to SCR unit, i said to myself this is the moment, and I did first stage tune with all of the benefits for the engine attached to it. I cutted the particular filter out, replaced fuel filter, cam and crank position sensors, inspected wiring harnesses, fuses all get power except those for SCR unit, changed rellays with place..
Miracle did not happen, van still does not crank, fuel pump and starter short ground.

My question is : what am I doing wrong, what can my problem be caused by and does anyone from Chicago area can help? (had bad experiences with MB dealers in the past don't want to be disappointed with them again)




Sent from my SM-G965U using Tapatalk
 

DavidAlejandro7

New member
I tried the Eric Jumper Method, carefully following the directions, but with no success. The vehicle in question is a 2006 T1N with 270,000 miles on it. I returned from a three hour trip and shut the vehicle down. I attempted to restart it about an hour later and it would not start. It made some clicking but no start and a fan was coming on, it sounded like the radiator fan, but we had just driven three hours nonstop on the highway. I pulled the battery and charged it to capacity a few times just to be sure, reinstalled the battery, and attempted to start the vehicle. There was plenty of clicking, but no fan at this time. Sadly I did not get it to turn over or start.
Any ideas? I live in Dayton Ohio. Are there any good shops within an hour or so of here that anybody knows about? I don’t want to give up on this vehicle, but I need something that runs.
 

bkmallan

New member
I had my sprinter flat bedded to a dealer with the same issue. Turns out it was a bad ground. Problem solved with minimal expense
 

dondiver

New member
New to forum a month ago when I had my first "NO START, NO CRANK" situation with 2008 Sprinter 3500 Winnebago VIew. Tried many things. Found that ground pin on ECM relay was not showing grounded. If you pinched the box van would start and run for a short period. Took to MB dealer to check fuse box and replace. 2 + weeks later I have a new CDI and a $2200 bill.

Is there a way to test the CDI they replaced to see if it was truly faulty? I would love to test if possible.
 

lindenengineering

Well-known member
Did you get the old one back ?
Usually they are core exchange.
If its in your possession send it to SOS Diagnostics for test and and overview.
Dennis
 

Merrick46

New member
I have a 2005 sprinter 311 in the uk . Parked it up yesterdaY running fine . Went to Start it today and it has no power to starter or fuel pump as when I bridged the starter wire it just turns over . Checked relays fuses ect any ideas cheers
 

Aqua Puttana

Poly - Thread Finder
Turns over would indicate the battery is ok. Any evidence of attempts to steal it or other damage?

Closely check each and every fuse under the steering column. A less likely fuse problem would be in the fuses under the driver seat.

vic
 

jsilver

Member
Interesting case of "click no start" a few weeks ago: we headed out to eastern Utah to do some mountain biking, paddle boarding, and camping. While scouting sites, we left the van ('14 2.1l I4). Turned it off to assess the road ahead. When we got back in, the dreaded click, no start. Battery good (Scangauge said 12.3 or so volts, and everything else worked). After an hour's wait, the flatbed wrecker arrived (thanks, Good Sam Roadside Assist), and hauled us back to Salt Lake. The dealer (Warner Vans, formerly Freightliner of Utah), after much exploration, found that the engine mount bolt on the driver's side of the engine, which has a ground strap attached, had sheared off in place. It looked ok, but when they turned the bolt, it spun without grabbing. Replaced that bolt, and all is good! We were able to get back out there this past weekend, and it was awesome!

John
Salt Lake City
'14 2500 2.1
 

Cheyenne

UK 2004 T1N 313CDi
I have a 2005 sprinter 311 in the uk . Parked it up yesterdaY running fine . Went to Start it today and it has no power to starter or fuel pump as when I bridged the starter wire it just turns over . Checked relays fuses ect any ideas cheers
Do you get 'Start Error' displayed on the dash?

Keith.
 

Merrick46

New member
Hi there Keith I have no faults on the dash or any of the lights Changed . All looks like it use to cheers

Also I have ran jump leads from the earth to engine and also to the bulkhead earth and no joy atall
 

jessejames49

New member
I have this issue with my 07. I get the the starter click like the battery's dead. I found out that if I just kept turning the ignition on then completely off then back on, the engine would eventually start. Typical is 2-3 times, the worst was 16 times. It eventually catches though. Anyone have this pattern? Newer battery.
 

dubyajayes

dubyajayes
To solve the “Click no start” problem we need to divide into groups of problems.


The first group could be the Battery and Charging System.
The second group could be Security and Relays.
The third group could be the Starter and its Solenoid.


Initial Testing
To find out which group you have, test by turning on the interior light , turn the key if the light goes out it is the first group Battery and Charging system.

If the light stays on, next test by running a wire from the small terminal on the starter.
To do this you should make up a test lead. Get a 2m or 8 feet length of hook-up wire. Connect a small alligator clip to each end. Connect one clip to the small terminal on the starter and the other end to a multimeter lead. The other meter lead must go to earth (ground/negative). The seat mounting bolts are a good earth.

With the meter resting on the seat and switched to 20 volts DC, turn the key. If the meter reads 12 volts you have good security (SKREEM) and relays circuit so go to the third group. If you do not get the 12 volts the problem is in the second group, Security and Relays.

Background information.

Most electrical problems are caused by poor electrical connections. To understand why we need some basic science.

All metals except gold oxidize when exposed to moisture. Oxides are good insulators. MB uses good quality connectors with rubber seals but a little bit of moisture still gets in. The more important pins are silver plated. If a plug has provision for 6 wires but only has 5 fitted then there should be a rubber plug in the 6th hole to keep moisture out. Mixing metals for connections makes things worse. Cheap pins are tin pated steel, better ones are tin plated brass, the next up is plated silver. The best are gold plated.

If something is not working there is a good chance it is not properly connected to the loom. If you have a bad connection the ECU cannot see the device and chucks a code. If you then scan the vehicle you will get a message like XYZ is faulty when in fact it is not, but is just not connected.

Things like relays are hard to keep free of moisture so they are placed under seats or in closed boxes.

High current circuits have an added problem. A small amount of oxide causes some resistance this resistance causes the connection to get hot which greatly accelerates oxidation. This is very noticeable on battery terminals. When a heavy cable with a copper crimp is bolted to steel, because you have mixed metals you get oxide problems.

This is common when a negative battery cable is earthed. All is not lost if you keep moisture out with some form of moisture barrier like lanolin or silicone. If the oxidization occurs inside a crimp you can remove the oxide with something like soldering flux, the function of fluxes is to get in under oxide layers. If you clean a crimp with flux you must then wash and dry it quickly then soft solder it. Washing your engine with water is a sure way of generating many faults. Using a steam cleaner on any modern engine can lead to a very big repair job.

Battery and Charging System
If you have a problem in the first group you must decide if the battery is flat or there is a cable problem.

To test the battery connect a multimeter directly to the battery terminals it will normally show 12.6 volts. Get someone to turn the key. If the battery voltage drops to say 9 volts then your battery is not charged. If the voltage stays up around 12 then you have a cable problem.

To find the cable problem place one meter lead on the negative terminal and the other lead on a shiny metal part of the engine, turn the key again, if the meter reads less than 1 volt your battery earth is OK if it reads say 4 volts then your earth cable is the problem.

If your battery earth is good then test the positive terminal connection. To do this place one lead on the positive terminal directly and the other lead on the copper lug of the heavy wire. With key on, once again if it reads less than 1 volt you are Ok if it reads more your positive terminal is corroded.

By now you know if it’s the battery or the cables. If the battery is flat then we have to decide if it’s a faulty battery or a charging problem.

A common problem with Sprinters is the cable that connects the alternator to the battery. To test this it is best to get the engine running, so best to charge up the battery with a good 3 stage charger. If you only have an old style battery charger then it is prudent to disconnect the earth terminal on the battery to charge it by connecting directly to the terminals.

Once you have it charged and reconnected, start the engine. To decide if it is charging the battery use your multimeter to measure the battery voltage, it should be above 12.6 and slowly rising. A bit of fast idling should bring the voltage up to over 13volts. If this voltage is not rising over 12.6 [or less] then you may have a potential cable problem.

To test this connect your multimeter to the large terminal on the alternator. While the engine is running, with the voltmeter negative lead earthed your meter may show the same voltage as the battery. If it does you have an alternator problem. If the voltage at the large connection of the alternator is more like 14 volts then you have a cable problem.

If you have a cable problem then remove the earth lead on the battery first (for safety), then remove the cable. When you have the cable out, look for discolouration of the wire going into the crimps. If you find that, repair as in the discussion of corrosion above. Note there can be a heavy fuse in the cable under the engine, this is unlikely to be blown but it could be corroded.

At this stage we should consider the glow plugs. If when you turn the key the glow plugs come on it tells us that the ECU is happy for the engine to start but the start relay is not being energized. If we keep trying to find the fault turning the key many times then we risk flattening the battery because the glow plugs draw a lot of power. We are also shortening the life of the glow plugs by constantly heating them. If you have this situation it is best to unplug the glow plug controller, if you can find the glow plug fuse then pull it. If you are not able to find the fuse you can unplug the small 4 pin plug that connects the controller to the ECU.

Security and Relays
If the problem is in the second group then we have to work through the cct [aka circuit] to find the cause.

The starting circuit is complex for safety and security. The way it works is to first establish if you have a valid key. that verified, it checks to see if the transmission is in neutral, then the ECU checks if the basic parameters of the engine are safe to start. If all that is OK then the start relay is energized.

If you can find your start relay using the excellent information that is posted on this forum then you can feel the relay to find out if it is being energized.
Fuse Block #2 Fuse Map 2004
https://sprinter-source.com/forum/showthread.php?t=24683

If it’s not or you are not sure, pull the relay out and look at the pins, if they are clean and shiny then we have to look at the voltages on the pins in the relay socket. Pin 30 should have 12 volts, pin 87 is the lead to the starter and will show 0 volts. The other pins 85 and 86 will have voltage across them when the ECU is trying to start. To verify this place your meter leads in 85and 86 turn the key. If you get nothing then the ECU is not telling the relay to start. If you get volts when the key is turned then the relay is being energized but is not sending the voltage to the starter, this could be a faulty relay or the wire to the starter is open.

Starter and its Solenoid

If the starter is faulty we need to pull it out and test it. Never ever short out the big terminals it is dangerous and proves nothing. The other thing to never ever do is hit the starter with a hammer. This practice started in the days of crude stator wiring, The modern starter has a permanent magnet stator that is made from very strong rare earth magnets these magnets are reliable but brittle. Eric.
Okay, I’ve gone all the way through your very fine write up, still no joy. I cleaned all the ground connections I could find but couldn’t find the main chassis ground braid ( if there is one, I couldn’t find it). I have 11.7v on the fuse link buss, and when I try to start, I have 11.5 on each of the small starter terminals. Start relay clicks ( I swapped it out, also). Sounds like the starter is kaput. Was good, just like that, it sh— the bed. The starter looks like a beast to replace.
 

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