Is Advanced-RV now offering the shorter 2500 Sprinter 144" wheelbase?

Davydd

Well-known member
We will be at Advanced Fest this year.

I’m not interested in a 3rd or 4th passenger seat but have designed the front end where it is not cramped with cabinetry right up against the turned around cab seats. I’m dealing with extra space with a bunk bed arrangement that takes up only 25% of floor space left as made up beds as opposed to 60% of floor space with a standard sofa/bed arrangement that has to be converted to either stay up or turn down for sleeping. 100% of our travel is just the two of us. We had all our grandkids give it a go with thousand mile trips and now they are older.
 

Boxster1971

2012 Sprinter 3500 Ext
Here is Advanced RV's video on Sue Valentine's Buckingvan Palace 144" WB 4x4 Sprinter. You are going to like it as told by the owner, a full-timer. :)

Thanks David - I was waiting for this video...

Bucky has a lot of neat features. I look forward to seeing it at the Fest in May.
 

Davydd

Well-known member
We spent two grueling non-stop days in meetings this week to finalize our shorty RV at ARV. First we had to get the van weight as upfitted delivered under 7,400 pounds upfitted. The base cargo van delivered from MB is about 4,500 lbs. The 7,400 lbs. does not include filled freshwater, grey and black in the tanks in the delivered poundage and it is assumed the diesel tank would be filled in that number but none of that doesn't count in the total. That will leave me 1,650 lbs. (9,050 GVWR) to spare. After we take possession we can add attached features. In order to get the weight under 7,400 lbs. I had to forego EP Levelers (185 lbs) and VB Air Suspension (135 lbs.) That's an odd requirement because after I take possession ARV could then do them after market as long as I stay under 9,050 lbs. total including us and all our equipment and freshwater. The 3500 Super Single (9,990 GVWR) still had to be kept under 7,400 lbs. delivered but weighed more than the 2500 which left less for upfitting improvements. So it is a 2500 144 WB diesel van and a go. The A50 reinforced front axle I am getting doesn't factor into these figures and doesn't change the 9,050 GVWR.

We picked all our materials and colors and selected all our options. We had our own design which is totally and radically different than any of the six shorty vans they've built so far and those six as well had nothing in common with each other in layout design. We are going with the Valence lithium battery option at a total of 828ah and the Delco second alternator.

There will be no solar panels. We were out today with batteries down to 33% battery capacity with our current 800ah lithium battery pack and 100% recharged them in 2 hours of driving with the Delco second alternator. That's over 530ah recharging. Solar would be insignificant with that charging efficiency and there isn't much real estate on our roof for solar given a Maxxfan, air conditioner, and two skylights.

Our shorty order of 7,400 lbs. is 2,000 lbs. less than our 170 Extended body ARV on upfitted delivery.
 

Davydd

Well-known member
It starts out as a cargo van. Changing the suspension package doesn’t change what ARV is allowed to build in weight. As I mentioned I could add VB Air Suspension for instance after I take possession at an additional 135 lbs. as my build is calculated now it stands just under 7,400 lbs. by just 33 lbs.
 

Davydd

Well-known member
Would you mind sharing what you design is going to be. Always interested in seeing what others are doing and their great ideas.
I will in time. I think I may have to figure out the best way to present so as not to duplicate my effort. Until this week I didn’t know if it would be a reality.
 

Boxster1971

2012 Sprinter 3500 Ext
It starts out as a cargo van. Changing the suspension package doesn’t change what ARV is allowed to build in weight. As I mentioned I could add VB Air Suspension for instance after I take possession at an additional 135 lbs. as my build is calculated now it stands just under 7,400 lbs. by just 33 lbs.
Sounds about right. I looked up the empty weight of the Airstream Interstate 19 (144" Sprinter). It is 7,346 lbs., just 54 lbs. under the curb weight limit of 7,400.
 

Robert-NE

Member
We spent two grueling non-stop days in meetings this week to finalize our shorty RV at ARV. First we had to get the van weight as upfitted delivered under 7,400 pounds upfitted. The base cargo van delivered from MB is about 4,500 lbs. The 7,400 lbs. does not include filled freshwater, grey and black in the tanks in the delivered poundage and it is assumed the diesel tank would be filled in that number but none of that doesn't count in the total. That will leave me 1,650 lbs. (9,050 GVWR) to spare. After we take possession we can add attached features. In order to get the weight under 7,400 lbs. I had to forego EP Levelers (185 lbs) and VB Air Suspension (135 lbs.) That's an odd requirement because after I take possession ARV could then do them after market as long as I stay under 9,050 lbs. total including us and all our equipment and freshwater. The 3500 Super Single (9,990 GVWR) still had to be kept under 7,400 lbs. delivered but weighed more than the 2500 which left less for upfitting improvements. So it is a 2500 144 WB diesel van and a go. The A50 reinforced front axle I am getting doesn't factor into these figures and doesn't change the 9,050 GVWR.
Can you explain this 7,400lb upfitted weight limit? Is this due to some external factor such as workshop lift capacity or vehicle transportation trail weight limit?
 

Boxster1971

2012 Sprinter 3500 Ext
Can you explain this 7,400lb upfitted weight limit? Is this due to some external factor such as workshop lift capacity or vehicle transportation trail weight limit?
The limit is established by Mercedes, known as curb weight limit. It is the maximum weight allowed before adding passengers and cargo. Master Upfitters must meet this requirement when doing initial modification on a Sprinter. Attaching the page from latest Body Equipment Guideline (BEG).
 

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Davydd

Well-known member
The disappointing thing I found out in the process of our design was a SuperSingle at 9990 GVWR was still limited to 7400 curb weight though it starts out heavier thus leaving less upfitter improvements.

In going through the design process I wonder how they keep Roadtrek Agiles and Pleasureway Ascents below 7400 lbs. curb weight. Does anyone know if they do?
 

Boxster1971

2012 Sprinter 3500 Ext
The disappointing thing I found out in the process of our design was a SuperSingle at 9990 GVWR was still limited to 7400 curb weight though it starts out heavier thus leaving less upfitter improvements.

In going through the design process I wonder how they keep Roadtrek Agiles and Pleasureway Ascents below 7400 lbs. curb weight. Does anyone know if they do?
I checked the Roadtrek Agile webpage and they claim a cargo capacity of 1500 lbs. Subtracting that from 8,550 GVWR gives a curb weight of 7,050 lbs.

https://www.roadtrek.com/models/ss-agile/

Could not find any cargo or empty weight for the Pleasure Way Ascent. Only reference to the required label for OCCUPANT AND CARGO CARRYING CAPACITY (OCCC). Same for the Winnebago Revel, could find no specific listing of cargo capacity - only reference to the OCCC labels. So one would have to see an actual van with label to know their OCCC that is based on their curb weight.

But as I posted earlier if Airstream can get the empty weight down to 7,346 lbs, then I'd imagine others can do it.

Looking forward to see how your new build works out. One thing for sure the cabinets that ARV builds are solidly made and top quality, but they are heavy.
 

GeorgeRa

2013 Sprinter DIY 144WB, Portland OR
.....................One thing for sure the cabinets that ARV builds are solidly made and top quality, but they are heavy.
It is interesting that only a few companies embark on aluminum framing cabinetry to reduce weight. I think Sportsmobile has a model with 1” square tubing used for framing which was designed in Germany, as far as I remember. Aluminum frames, cladded in not structural decorative covers either wood or plastic are good choices if weight is a concern. My loaded 144" van is 1,000 lbs below max fully loaded.
 

Davydd

Well-known member
It is interesting that only a few companies embark on aluminum framing cabinetry to reduce weight. I think Sportsmobile has a model with 1” square tubing used for framing which was designed in Germany, as far as I remember. Aluminum frames, cladded in not structural decorative covers either wood or plastic are good choices if weight is a concern. My loaded 144" van is 1,000 lbs below max fully loaded.
Is that below curb weight or GVWR? My proposed van will be at least 1,650 lbs. below GVWR or probably at 1,000 lbs. below “fully loaded” after we occupy it. ARV has explored 80/20 framing and they build a variety of lightweight core paneling since most paneling they use is plastic laminate because of the curvature design they utilize extensively. ARV did not get enough savings in weight to justify 80/20 without compromising their designs. I requested they explore it since my design will not have much curvature. I have a detailed spreadsheet list of everything they install with actual or estimated weights to stay below 7,400 lbs. curb weight per MB. Right now I am 33 lbs. below. I have the cabinets I want which are much more extensive than any 144 Sprinter RV I know of.

ARV said in their extensive retrofitting business of air conditioners, levelers, and VB air suspensions, bull bars, etc. on other vans that they feel many vans are overloaded on curb weight. They didn’t say which. Interestingly, after I take possession I too could then turn around and add their VB Air Suspension (135 lbs) and levelers (175 lbs) if I want. In a way it is a blessing that I can take possession, experience, and drive the van to determine if I really want them. I have plenty to work with with 1,650 lbs. I could go full mounty Aluminess accessories if I wanted to. ;)
 

GeorgeRa

2013 Sprinter DIY 144WB, Portland OR
Our fully loaded camper, means trip ready with both of us, weight was 7600 lbs. including the loaded Stowaway 2 with the swing hitch. An estimate weight of the Stowaway/hitch is about 300 lbs. which makes our trip ready van about 1250 lbs. less than GVWR of 8550 lbs. as we no longer use the Stowaway.

Without detailed, item by item comparison it would be difficult to compare your planned van with my DIY one. At the beginning of my conversion I kept weights for added components, but in time I dropped it knowing I will be OK in van’s weight. Here are weights in lbs. for some of my components:

Upholstered sofa bed - 233.05
Galley frame - 44.85
Grey water tank - 32.55
Fresh water tank with brackets - 42.30
Hot water tank - 21.30
Awning - 61.60
Electrical cabinet complete - 113.95
2 x Fullriver batteries group 31 - 144.20
Thinsulate - 30.00
Left overhead cabinet 113 in long - 63.45
Right overhead cabinet 61.5 in long - 35.57
Housed Thetford cassette toilet in 80/20 cabinet - 70.00

Aluminum framing has many options from welded frames to assembly using fasteners. One German company and Sportsmobile are using 1” square tubing with flanges, called by 80/20 a Quick Frame, for their very modular design, great solution for low weight, fast assembly using plastic fasteners but not so good for redoing. Some folks could object to plastic corner fasteners.

There is a gamut of 80/20 profiles with T-slots to match required strength from 20 – 0.79 in, 10 or 20 ~ 1 in, 30 – 1.18 in, 15 – 1.5 in and some more, so many options.

Here is an example of my complete galley frame (22.5"Dx36in.Wx34.5"H) based on heavy 15 series with drawers and floor mounts versus a cube built from 5/8” or ¾” marine plywood. Plywood options are from 62 – 105% heavier. With combination of 10 and 15 series it could be even more, so just on galley frame savings in weight could be 28 to 47 lbs., that is not negligent.

For me the choice between aluminum frame or plywood was easy, I built the first and the last conversion, didn’t have expertise with plywood/wood cabinetry nor with aluminum framing, so weight savings prevailed. Assembly was also simplified as all extrusions were cut at the factory and HDPE fronts and filler panels were CNCed.

For high volume manufacturing I would likely choose aluminum framing either welded or Quick Frame. With low cost sensitivity T-slotted combination of different profiles would be my choice. For folks objecting to visible aluminum frame it can be nicely finished with a light weight 1/4" bamboo, hardwood, veneered plywood or plastic.
 

Davydd

Well-known member
I’ve made my weight so for me it is a moot subject and I’m having it built by the experts so don’t have to compromise on my building skills. For a good portion of my career I designed hospitals and nursing homes. 80/20 reminds me of the cabinetry in those buildings built for durability, but not aesthetics at least in my mind, that remind me of such institutional buildings I’d rather stay out of. :)

I’m not really a fan of plastic laminate either and since I don’t plan to have any rounded corners I thought I could opt out like Gustav, Cruzmobile and Sue Valentine’s Bucky with polyurethaned real wood finish. ARV’s P lam has held up in my current van, Alvar, to the point where I can accept it and could choose from any manufacturer for infinite choices to complement my other interior finishes of fabric, wall, ceiling and accessories. It gives a clean Scandinavian style look which I favor.
 

Boxster1971

2012 Sprinter 3500 Ext
… I’m not really a fan of plastic laminate either and since I don’t plan to have any rounded corners I thought I could opt out like Gustav, Cruzmobile and Sue Valentine’s Bucky with polyurethaned real wood finish. ARV’s P lam has held up in my current van, Alvar, to the point where I can accept it and could choose from any manufacturer for infinite choices to complement my other interior finishes of fabric, wall, ceiling and accessories. It gives a clean Scandinavian style look which I favor.
"...I thought I could opt out..." Were you able to get poly on real wood like Bucky? That is the interior I would also prefer. Our did you just go with the P lam? Is there a weight difference?
 

Davydd

Well-known member
The real wood was contracted out to a woodworking company in Wisconsin. It has a marine (boating) look to me. ARV said it was harder to install labor wise. It may be lighter in that a p lam finish would probably be heavier than a polyurethane finish.
 

Boxster1971

2012 Sprinter 3500 Ext
The real wood was contracted out to a woodworking company in Wisconsin. It has a marine (boating) look to me. ARV said it was harder to install labor wise. It may be lighter in that a p lam finish would probably be heavier than a polyurethane finish.
Thanks David - sounds like it might also be more expensive considering they had to contract out the work and that it was harder to install.
 

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