Bio diesel on my trip

autostaretx

Erratic Member
I avoid B-anything. Thanks for the fed no notice needed tip. My tip off for B-x fuel is it is usually 10 to 15 cents cheaper (WA) than "regular" diesel.
(WA-specific (heck: I-5) info follows: )
Admittedly, the number of stations i visit is fairly limited ... but the cheapest i normally visit is the Chevron-branded station at the Swinomish Casino in Anacortes.
It's located about 2 miles from the dual refineries (Shell and Tesoro (now Andeavor)) on Marsh Point.
The diesel pumps are of the "up to B5" variety.
But with the info above I am going to cut the interval between fuel filter changes in half. I think the fed is screwing with diesel owners to please the "greenies"
I'd advise throwing a rock or two at the farm lobby, too.
The Swinomish Chevron station has up to 10% ethanol in their gasoline.

The winner in my book for "always too high Bxx content" (including B20) is Donna's Travel Plaza (filled with big rigs) on 116th St NE, just north of the Tulalip Casino complex ... and it is not cheaper than the Chevron three blocks away (selling "normal" diesel at "normal" prices).

------

The real trick for dealing with the risk of unknown B content is to refill relatively frequently... instead of running your tank near empty, refill when you're only down a half tank.
That way a "B-10" pump into your half-full-of-ULSD tank will only give you a B-5 (to B-7) result.

As for the gummy #1: any diesel can be turned to sludge by improper storage and slow sales ...

--dick
 
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showkey

Well-known member
There should be a law nation wide to label every pump with the exact bio diesel level.
I will avoid driving through Illinois on all future trips.
"They" made the current law and labeling very specific 5-20% ( reality is 0-20%) on purpose so we have no idea what we are actually buying. That label is a the FTC label as in federal. Avoiding IL diesel might or might not solve your perceived problem. Other states and stations even in Illinois still can be selling 0-20% blends without your knowledge. Even station owners may not know the % or are unwilling to share if they do.




"They" also wanted to change gasoline to a similar variable label 10-15% Ethanol but were shut down for now.
 
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lgb

New member
I'm new to Sprinters and more specifically new to diesels, so this biodiesel labeling/use issue is really disturbing to read about. After reading all this, I have to ask, am I to assume that I will often be driving where it will be difficult to find 0-5% biodiesel fuel and when I think I've found it I won't know for sure because the labeling may not follow the federal guidelines and/or what is shown in the MB biodiesel brochure? Any states besides Illinois where this is more likely to be a problem? All this makes me wonder if buying a diesel was a hassle-filled mistake!
 

Benagami

Member
I'm new to Sprinters and more specifically new to diesels, so this biodiesel labeling/use issue is really disturbing to read about. After reading all this, I have to ask, am I to assume that I will often be driving where it will be difficult to find 0-5% biodiesel fuel and when I think I've found it I won't know for sure because the labeling may not follow the federal guidelines and/or what is shown in the MB biodiesel brochure? Any states besides Illinois where this is more likely to be a problem? All this makes me wonder if buying a diesel was a hassle-filled mistake!
Yes, you need to be vigilant about what fuel you put in your Sprinter. No, you shouldn't freak out, as it will burn just about any type of diesel when it needs to. Even if you experience an engine light coming on like I did, you'll have a bunch of starts until you get a countdown. Once the countdown begins, you'll have another 20 starts. The countdown will appear on the LCD display in the center of the dashboard.

To summarize, I bought crap diesel, and the check engine light came on. I burned the tank of crap diesel, and then filled up with good diesel and the light went off after I had burned off about 3/4 of the tank of good diesel.
 

ptheland

2013 144" low top Passgr
I'm new to Sprinters and more specifically new to diesels, so this biodiesel labeling/use issue is really disturbing to read about.
Keep in mind that you may be reading posts by people who have no idea what they're talking about. The best idea is to try to stick to the facts. The tricky part is nailing down facts. I'd do things like read your owner's manual to see what Mercedes says about bio diesel in your specific vehicle. I would not be surprised that the owner's manual has changed between 2007 and 2017.

After reading all this, I have to ask, am I to assume that I will often be driving where it will be difficult to find 0-5% biodiesel fuel and when I think I've found it I won't know for sure because the labeling may not follow the federal guidelines and/or what is shown in the MB biodiesel brochure? Any states besides Illinois where this is more likely to be a problem?
There are a couple of farm belt states that apparently have mandated a minimum percentage of bio in all diesel. There was another thread recently commenting on a different state (WI? MN? SD? I want to say it was in the upper Mid West and not IL.) that had mandated B20. Lots of people were in a panic. Calmer voices did a bit of research and discovered that the requirement was being phased in over the course of a few years. Currently, the minimum was B10, and not B20.

My understanding is that it is a federal law or regulation that requires pumps dispensing biodiesel greater than B5 be appropriately labeled. I have no idea who enforces this, nor do I know how widespread any disregard of this particular Federal requirement might be. I do think it's reasonable to consider that pumps which should be labeled might not be. I also suspect that disregard of the law is more likely at off-brand independent stations than it would be at nationally recognized brands.

All this makes me wonder if buying a diesel was a hassle-filled mistake!
Being a German company, Mercedes may not be closely in touch with some of the state and local politics of fuel in the US. And they may have made the decision not to worry about those politics very much. Diesel vehicles are a much smaller portion of the market in the US than they are in many other places around the world - particularly Europe, where small diesels have been popular for many years. It could be a business decision that catering to localities legislating higher bio percentages in diesel fuel is something that is not worth their time.

It's also possible that Mercedes is simply being very conservative in their fuel recommendations. In short, dino-diesel is almost always going to be a more consistent, higher quality fuel. So they specify that fuel. Biodiesel can cover everything from large commercial operations which produce a consistently good fuel to home distillers producing who knows what. It may be easier to recommend the known consistent fuel and avoid the confusion and/or complexity of trying to separate one biodiesel from another.

At lot will depend on your particular location, or the places you plan to frequently use your Sprinter. If those frequent locations are all in biodiesel territory, then you need to look into the issues further and make your own decisions. If you travel to those places only on rare occasion, I wouldn't worry about the issue much. I doubt if one or two tanks of B20 (assuming good quality B20 and not some home brewed unknown) are going to cause you any issues. A little research into the areas to which you are traveling can help with planning around biodiesel issues. Filling up before entering an area that requires higher biodiesel concentrations, and topping up early with bio (to keep the actual concentration in your tank down) are ways to deal with brief travel. It's also perfectly fine to simply fill up from recognizable sources and go on your way.

The only time it's a real hassle is if you live in an area that requires higher biodiesel concentrations and don't leave that area often. In that case, choosing a different vehicle might be a good choice.
 

showkey

Well-known member
Time to post the MB bio diesel letter where they soften their stance on the use of B20 in states or areas that mandate blends:

https://www.mbusa.com/vcm/MB/DigitalAssets/pdfmb/serviceandparts/biodiesel_Brochure5.pdf

Then there's again nobody posting huge or common problems with diesel fuel issues ( with confirmed documentation) like photos of plugged filters or fuel system repairs.

The only start count down that comes up on the forum is related to DEF system.

Link to 10 start DEF sticky:

https://sprinter-source.com/forum/showthread.php?t=51661

There are multiple posts on the bio blend issue and DEF count down in the NCV3 section.
 
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Geriakt

2017 View 24J
I notice MB does not state the use of B20 or higher than B5 is approved by MB and will not void your warranty. Since my sprinter does not have a dip stick I have to rely on the computer to tell me about engine oil level. Will it tell you you are over full? Doubt it.
One thing MB does not tell you is using B20 will sludge your engine thus why you have too high of engine oil level. Once you have oil gel or sludge kiss that most advanced diesel engine in the world good bye.
Let me know how your B20 has been working for you at 100,000 miles and your engine blows and mother MB says sorry warranty was voided.
 

smiller

2008 View J (2007 NCV3 3500)
ISince my sprinter does not have a dip stick I have to rely on the computer to tell me about engine oil level. Will it tell you you are over full? Doubt it.
There in fact is a dash indication when oil level is too high, but... your engine doesn't have an oil dipstick ??
 

Hooligan2

Member
Will it tell you you are over full? Doubt it.
It does- per the manual with engine running--
1.Yellow engine oil lamp ON STEADY and warning buzzer, oil above max. Check with dipstick, extract oil ...

2.Engine oil lamp steady no buzzer -oil low
3. lamp on & flashing & buzzer - no oil or not enough

Concern with biodiesel is not intentionally using B-20 to invite wrath of MB but not having an choice or proper labeling. Luckily I have have a non-bio diesel station down the street and refill there after each trip.
 

Soreal

New member
In Ohio, my local station sells real original diesel. Lots of farming around. Can i put ~that~ in my '16 144 4X4?
 

Geriakt

2017 View 24J
In Ohio, my local station sells real original diesel. Lots of farming around. Can i put ~that~ in my '16 144 4X4?
I think you are talking about off road diesel. No that would not meet MB spec and illegal to use on the highway. It may clog your DPF at a minimum.
 

Geriakt

2017 View 24J
There in fact is a dash indication when oil level is too high, but... your engine doesn't have an oil dipstick ??
Ok to be honest I just can't located the dip stick and assumed it did not have one since it has an electronic oil level indicator. My Audi Q5 does not have a dip stick either.
 
My nox sensors lasted 100,000 miles, my friend who runs bio lasted 30,000. Bio is high in nitrogen oxide which is controlled by the nox sensors. Just one disadvantage of running bio.
 
D

Deleted member 50714

Guest
This is just forken great. What a piece of crap German vehicle. This is the placard where I usually buy diesel. So, what happens if it is always 20%? I hope MB goes bankrupt and all the MB executives children become crack whores.
 

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ptheland

2013 144" low top Passgr
This is just forken great. What a piece of crap German vehicle. This was the placard where I usually buy diesel.
So don't buy your diesel there. You're in LA County. There are like a bazillion places that sell diesel. Pick a different station. Now you know why that station is 10 or 20 cents a gallon cheaper than everyone else.

And what does that have to do with "crap German engineering"? Do you complain similarly because your Toyota can't use E85 gasoline? Your Mercedes is designed for petroleum diesel, not bio diesel. Your Toyota is designed for petroleum gasoline, not a gasoline and ethanol mixture.
 
D

Deleted member 50714

Guest
So don't buy your diesel there. You're in LA County. There are like a bazillion places that sell diesel. Pick a different station. Now you know why that station is 10 or 20 cents a gallon cheaper than everyone else.

And what does that have to do with "crap German engineering"? Do you complain similarly because your Toyota can't use E85 gasoline? Your Mercedes is designed for petroleum diesel, not bio diesel. Your Toyota is designed for petroleum gasoline, not a gasoline and ethanol mixture.
Hi Peter, always a joy to hear from you. I usually buy from Chevron. Any suggestions?
 
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caswelld

New member
This is the placard where I usually buy diesel.
:bash: The Sprinter ads never mention the fact that owners will sometimes have to hunt for a gas station that has the proper fuel :doh:

That B5-B20 stuff is probably good for a few gallons to get you to a petroleum diesel pump. Too bad there's not a phone app for 0-B5 stations.

:popcorn:
Dave
 

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