T21 Emissions Recall Notice

[mickal2012]

Thank to your reply, i just change The MAF and clear the code and everythings working fine. If the T 21 dont change nothing on transition and engine working, i will pass the T21 update

 

[220629]

...

Without the recall, the van is extremely tolerant of MAF sensor issues. Basically, without the recall it is possible to have a non functioning MAF, and possibly a non functioning O2 sensor and the van won't care at all. Those sensors are only used to verify emissions performance, NOT how the van runs. My understanding is that the van is a "speed density" system. Injection events and motor operation are based on manifold pressure, engine RMP, temp, etc and the ECM calculates how much and when to inject fuel. The MAF is ONLY used to verify that the EGR is working - if some of the intake air the van needs comes from the exhaust (which is the definition of EGR) the MAF sensor senses the intake air through the MAF decrease - this is the EGR check the MAF performs. The van doesn't need a MAF to run, only to do the emissions check. T21 is quite particular about the MAF sensor, and you are far more likely to get a MAF diagnostic code with the T21. Also, once the ECM determines the MAF is bad, and you replace it with a new OEM MAF from your favorite supplier, you need a dealer level scan tool to clear the code (MAF adaptation). Without the recall you can replace the MAF and go happily on your way with no need for a trip to the dealer.

I'm not in total agreement with your description of the various sensors and the interaction.









vic

 

[99sport]

I'm not in total agreement with your description of the various sensors and the interaction.

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vic

I should clarify, as, based on Vic's post, I either was unclear, or wrong (or both).

Based on Vic's post above, clearly the O2 sensor is used for injector drift compensation and smoke limiting. I still believe the MAF is only needed to compensate for EGR, the ECM knows the pressure, temperature, and volume of air going into the engine from its sensors and can calculate O2 from those - so with no EGR, the ECM knows the airflow without a MAF sensor. (With EGR the MAF IS needed so that the O2 sensor readings make sense). I do know that some tunes that disable EGR also zero out the O2 signal and will run fine without an O2 signal, but clearly the OEM tune DOES use the O2 data. (Which is why I put "possibly" in my post regarding O2 sensor function as I am not entirely sure how the stock firmware uses the signal, but some aftermarket tunes ignore it entirely.)

Regarding my contention that MAF is only used for EGR detection / quantification (and thus the system is a "speed density" type), I beleive this is based on the page above, although it is posible I read it elsewhere in the service manual.

I own several Hondas and they are all speed density systems. Hondas store fuel injector trim values in the ECM (as described in bullets 1 and 2 of Vic's post) and close a loop around an O2 sensor data (as described in bullet 3 in Vic's post). So the functions described in Vic's reference clearly can be done with a speed density system. However Honda gasoline engines NEVER have a MAF sensor - even when they have EGR - so they are calculating the EGR based on the feedback the ECM recieves from the EGR position sensor built into the EGR valve. So why does MB need to use the MAF to measure EGR rather than calculate it like Honda does? Diesels (with their lack of throttle and exceptionally high compression ratios) are FAR more prone to NOx formation, so I speculate MB needed much better control of EGR to beat down the NOx in a diesel than Honda does on a gasoline engine.

I'm just a guy on the internet, so I could be wrong, but regardless of how the ECM works, I still think there is little upside to the T21 recall and it makes for a whole lot of headaches (I know this personally - my van has the recall).

And Vic, I have downloaded everything from DIY sprinter (or so I thought), but I don't have those pages you posted. Do you know where I can get them?

 

[sebtown]

Apparently the flash can go bad so the ECM is bricked, but it only happens a small percentage of the time. Mine went fine, but they said they had failures and tried to discourage me from having it done. They said that they would have to find a replacement ECM if the flash went bad. I know there are some here that open up the ECMs and do reflashes. Maybe SOS could fix it too. I think you have to open it up and maybe even unsolder chips to recover it, or at least connect a programmer to something like a JTAG port.

If someone knows more, please pipe up.

Regards,

Mark

 

[Kim_Marcus]

Visited my local Gollings Chrysler, Dodge... Dealership, Bloomfield Hills, MI, today for the T21 recall. Although my T21 Emissions recall notice said the 'fix' would take 2 hrs. They actually assessed my van during that 2 hrs. I was told that I did not need the wiring harness and that my ECU would be updated then they will perform a test drive and relearn procedure. I need to drop it off next week for an all day fix. Then if they find any issues....it's back to who knows...

...more to come Kim

 

[Kim_Marcus]

Really, I worked in Chrysler Power Train for awhile and was told the reflash was a software update. The hardware had gone by the wayside. It actually was a cause of concern because they did not have a physical part anymore. Kim


Well now I am watching this:

 

[Kim_Marcus]

Visited my local Gollings Chrysler, Dodge... Dealership, Bloomfield Hills, MI, today for the T21 recall. Although my T21 Emissions recall notice said the 'fix' would take 2 hrs. They actually assessed my van during that 2 hrs. I was told that I did not need the wiring harness and that my ECU would be updated then they will perform a test drive and relearn procedure. I need to drop it off next week for an all day fix. Then if they find any issues....it's back to who knows...

...more to come Kim

Recall was completed last week. So far so good. Been driving it all week and don't notice any difference. I did not need a new wiring harness and they did keep it overnight. They told me the download of software was 3 hours and upload to my ECU 2 hrs., which didn't leave enough time to make sure all codes were okay. Gollings had it ready by noon the next day. I was not able to talk directly to the technician.

 

[sikwan]

They told me the download of software was 3 hours and upload to my ECU 2 hrs., which didn't leave enough time to make sure all codes were okay. Gollings had it ready by noon the next day. I was not able to talk directly to the technician.

Just a notation... the software doesn't take 3hrs to download and it doesn't take 2hrs to flash your ECU. It should take 1 minute to download (unless they have a Very slow internet) and <3 minutes to flash the ECU.

The service specialist probably doesn't know what they're talking about or they're over-padding the time.

In any case, good for you on the successful reflash.

 

[amehl]

So I got the T21 recall done (regret) and now my codes look like a damn Christmas tree.
The dealer says that I need a new MAF sensor. Does anyone have any input? I would for sure buy one if I knew it would clear at least one code. I think they are about $180.
The only periodic code I would get before was the GP open circuit generic one. But it would always go away if I drove it often.
Ideas?

 

[sikwan]

The only periodic code I would get before was the GP open circuit generic one. But it would always go away if I drove it often.
Ideas?

I would create a new thread for your specific case so that it doesn't detract from this thread.

 

[pacman_34]

So I got the T21 recall done (regret) and now my codes look like a damn Christmas tree.
The dealer says that I need a new MAF sensor. Does anyone have any input? I would for sure buy one if I knew it would clear at least one code. I think they are about $180.
The only periodic code I would get before was the GP open circuit generic one. But it would always go away if I drove it often.
Ideas?

read this. they need to cover the repairs

https://asktheref.org/Portals/4/Documents/BAR-T21DodgeSprinterEmissionsRecall-Fact%20Sheet.pdf?ver=2018-05-14-161848-270

 

[Vetuview]

New California owner of a 2005 3500 (2006 Winnebago View) that I bought out of state. T21 update has not been done. I’m trying to figure out the best approach and have been speaking with the local Dodge dealer (Crown Dodge in Ventura/Oxnard). They are telling me that If issue come up after flashing the update then the instrument cluster will need to be sent out to be rebuilt... Anyone else experience this?

 

[sikwan]

New California owner of a 2005 3500 (2006 Winnebago View) that I bought out of state. T21 update has not been done. I’m trying to figure out the best approach and have been speaking with the local Dodge dealer (Crown Dodge in Ventura/Oxnard). They are telling me that If issue come up after flashing the update then the instrument cluster will need to be sent out to be rebuilt... Anyone else experience this?

For the most part, 2004's were the ones that had their clusters replaced. Also, there was a shortage of clusters. I know there was talk about getting an exemption because of the shortage. Do some research. Call another dealer and see what they say.

If you plan to continue to live in California, you have no choice but to bite the bullet. For a 2005, you might just luck out without the cluster replacement.

 

[autostaretx]

New California owner of a 2005 3500 (2006 Winnebago View) that I bought out of state. T21 update has not been done. I’m trying to figure out the best approach and have been speaking with the local Dodge dealer (Crown Dodge in Ventura/Oxnard). They are telling me that If issue come up after flashing the update then the instrument cluster will need to be sent out to be rebuilt... Anyone else experience this?

MB has come up with a new add-in "adapter" that corrects the problem. Dodge evidently hasn't gotten the word about it.
There are a few threads about it (with photos) here in the forum. (link below)
The installation is trivial: unplug SKREEM, plug adapter on to SKREEM cable, plug adapter's cable into SKREEM. Done.
No cluster reprogramming needed.

T21 fix: https://sprinter-source.com/forums/index.php?threads/71030/page-7#post-1000777
(starting at msg# 127)

--dick

 

[laser100]

Who has had a successful T21 flash for there 2004 Sprinter in southern California? Dealership recomendations. Thanks in advance
Ron

 

[sikwan]

Who has had a successful T21 flash for there 2004 Sprinter in southern California? Dealership recomendations. Thanks in advance
Ron

Have you looked here...

T21 Recall for OM647s - Recommended Dealerships

The T21 Emissions Recall Thread is rather long now. T21 Emissions Recall Notice https://sprinter-source.com/forum/showthread.php?t=57401 An issue with getting the recall performed is that some dealerships appear to be better qualified to complete the T21 Recall as compared to others. The...

sprinter-source.com

May not be comprehensive, but if I remember correctly there are only a few selected, reliable dealerships.

 

[HelloPitty]

Who has had a successful T21 flash for there 2004 Sprinter in southern California? Dealership recomendations. Thanks in advance
Ron

I was under the impression that all 2004 Sprinters needed a new instrument cluster, mine did. But perhaps the work-around adapter is now working since new instrument clusters are not to be found.
I live in So. Calif. and I took the trip to San Luis Obispo to Cole Dodge because of their familiarity with the T21 Emissions Notice. I am satisfied with my experience with them and would recommend them.

 

[autostaretx]

I was under the impression that all 2004 Sprinters needed a new instrument cluster, mine did. But perhaps the work-around adapter is now working since new instrument clusters are not to be found.
I live in So. Calif. and I took the trip to San Luis Obispo to Cole Dodge because of their familiarity with the T21 Emissions Notice. I am satisfied with my experience with them and would recommend them.

Recent reports are that the Dodge dealers are not yet aware of the new MB adapter.
So i'd certainly call ahead before launching on a long drive...

--dick
p.s. "aware of" may be a corporate lack-of-knowledge instead of the specific dealer. If Dodge doesn't have the parts flowing through their channels yet, there will be hiccups beyond the dealer's power to overcome.

 

[HelloPitty]

Good point autostaretx.
Call ahead and ask for Evan in service, probably anyone can help, but he was my tech. (805) 543-7321
is their phone number.

 

[mbb500]

Who has had a successful T21 flash for there 2004 Sprinter in southern California? Dealership recomendations. Thanks in advance
Ron

I did, Signal Hill Jeep Dodge, They installed the new harness and flashed the ECM. All good so far, Mark