EGR, DPF Sensors, Cleaning and Code Issues

ecowhale

Innovative CamperVan
2007 Dodge Sprinter 3.0 Diesel with 165,000 miles.

Current Persistent Code: P040D Exhaust Gas Recirculation (EGR) Temperature Sensor A Circuit High.

Chronology of events that lead to current engine light and code P040D: The engine light came on, OBD reader said P0544 exhaust sensor 1. I removed all sensors I could find and reach and cleaned them with brake cleaner. I flushed the DPF with Liqui Moly DPF cleaner and purge. I noticed a lot of smoke for a few minutes. The engine light went out. The OBD smog section suddenly had a lot of previous alarms now as green check marks. For the first time, the OBD showed green checks in all areas. This lasted for about 50 miles, then the engine light came back on for P0544 #1 sensor.

I removed the EGR valve (was stuck; had to skillfully pry up) and cleaned the EGR valve very good. The blades pivot well, looks good. While I was in that area, I removed the sensor on the EGR cooler. It broke off. I cleaned it and JB welded it back on (replacing the cooler is cost and time prohibitive). The P040D EGR temp Sensor A high code remains.

Should I replace the EGR temp sensor? If so, I would have to JB weld it on as I'm not buying a new cooler and additionally paying 1.2k for labor to have it replaced.

Any suggestions?? Thanks
 

lindenengineering

Well-known member
Well before you try trying to fix it (sensors /egr/ etc ) why won't you clean or replace the cooler?
This is essential for correct EGR operation AND re-gen activity!.
Without attending to this salient task you can't /won't be able to fix the rest of that can of worms you are trying fruitlessly to fix & experience !
Dennis
Mechanic!
 

ecowhale

Innovative CamperVan
I would very much like to clean the cooler; what is the path of least resistance to clean it? The reason I didn't want to replace it is because my local Mercedes dealer said it takes 10 hours to replace it which translates into two days of down time and $1,200 in labor.
 

lindenengineering

Well-known member
I would very much like to clean the cooler; what is the path of least resistance to clean it? The reason I didn't want to replace it is because my local Mercedes dealer said it takes 10 hours to replace it which translates into two days of down time and $1,200 in labor.
That is a lot of bollocks!
Recommended shop time is 6.5 hours .
Plus
Two gaskets at $51 each! Plus 5 off gaskets for egr gas transfer tubes @ $5 each.

Yes I know the dealer likes to to toss them in the trash BUT take two gallons of Berryman carburetor cleaner , fashion a bath to completely submerge the cooler and leave it for about two to three days . Then purge the matrix with BG Carb/inlet tract /choke spray and progressively blow clear with a shop air line.

To speed up the process we have several "bathing" for weeks in a tank until needed! Instant clean cooler by exchange ready to install at a moments notice!
Suggest you try to do the same to start with!
Dennis
 

SprinterHelp

2005 Dudge Sprinter 144
I would very much like to clean the cooler; what is the path of least resistance to clean it? The reason I didn't want to replace it is because my local Mercedes dealer said it takes 10 hours to replace it which translates into two days of down time and $1,200 in labor.
Such liars, do it once and if you have all the tools at hand it takes about 20 min to take off. Flushing the cooler takes the longest, best soak in an aluminum safe carbon buster and steam clean. it will come 100% clean if you do it right.

If they say it takes anything more than 4-5 hours reduce the time by 80% and that's the REAL TIME.
 

lindenengineering

Well-known member
Such liars, do it once and if you have all the tools at hand it takes about 20 min to take off. Flushing the cooler takes the longest, best soak in an aluminum safe carbon buster and steam clean. it will come 100% clean if you do it right.

If they say it takes anything more than 4-5 hours reduce the time by 80% and that's the REAL TIME.
For your info the BOOK TIME is 6.5 hours.
These times are published as guides for the trade .
Trade time are guides to give the PROFESSIONAL shops involved sufficient time to complete the job and make sufficient profit on the job & to cover such thing as warranty coverage should something go wrong following delivery back to the customer.
The dealer is required by a company code of conduct to charge what they like to cover their own warranty commitments set out by the shareholders of the business indemnity reflected the premiums they pay to garage liability coverage.

Yes I suppose you can do it cheaper and as you claim maybe BUT "MONSUER" but if it fails and wrecks someone's engine or component parts are you going to pay/reimburse the customer for the cost to rectifying it again if you make a mistake?

There are lots of people who know NOTHING about running a profitable business .
Again for some training in retail management like an MBA in business acumen not go amiss!
Dennis
Shop Owner
 

Rob S

2008 Navion J on 2007 V6
I do not agree that hours should be inflated to cover warranty costs. If the work is done properly, such costs should only rarely occur.

I think it would be reasonable to believe that there is sufficient included in the Hourly shop rate of $100+ of which somewhere around $40 goes to wages and benefits for the tech, the rest should cover all other costs such as shop ownership, service writer, and warranty coverage also.

Therefore the hours charged should be however long it takes an average trained tech to perform the job and any associated tests and qc, and include allowance for average incidence of expected complications in performing the work.

A shop that typically overcharges on hours I believe is cheating its customers, and does not deserve our business if we can help it.

All that being said (or typed as the case may be) you can try to charge whatever you want, and people can frequent your shop or someone elses at their pleasure.

If you manage solve problems others can't figure out, then you can probably get away with it. What matters most in the end is that it is fixed and stays fixed for a good length of time.
 

SprinterHelp

2005 Dudge Sprinter 144
If you charge more than 30% and cost you have entered a monopoly cartel and have become non competitive. Labor can be a bit different but labor that sends a vehicle out the door in same or worse condition is robbery and fraud. The only way these companies mark up prices over 1000 percent is because they are colluding with organized illegal business tactics. As technology advances on our dime prices drop in manufacturing and when technology breaks in price are not passed along it means that the business is no longer a business but a back alley robbery in broad daylight.
Dennis knows how to fix a sprinter, repetition makes quick fix but those dealers lead customers down a long unethical road which is now the norm trying to be taught to our youth.

We have this fine forum here but where can I find a list of sensors for a vehicle? So much talking and fluff but concise answers are hours of reading. I have seen the 2007s selling like hotcakes because their junk and some lifespans could not reach 200k. So many ask me to fix but I am not touching them because the emissions make big problems from small leaks.

Anyone find a sensor list for the NVC?
 
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ecowhale

Innovative CamperVan
It's widespread standard practice. There are not very many "highly qualified" Sprinter technicians to choose from, even in large cities; therefore supply and demand allows the bilking of labor and parts. I don't think it's illegal, but rather unethical especially when the Sprinter tech is not competent in the work needed to justify such high costs (common scenario).
 

lindenengineering

Well-known member
These comments guys are a bit skewed.
I see making a profit of more than 30% is akin to criminal activity!
So fast food is criminal is it!
With profits starting at 40% minimum and often rising to well over 100% for pizza that is criminal to some!! OK

Let's go to the higher end of hospitality & fine dining and wine. These profits exceed 1000% in some cases!

What about the medical field, their profits are colossal but no -one seems to bilk at that!
EXCEPT the US Motor Vehicle Repair Business!

Now In fact I think and I will be frank here!

Many American just hate paying to get a car fixed! Its that's simple!
Most consider the guy turning the wrench is below their educational level and class status simply because its a dirty job at times.

I often get snide comments about how a Mexican trained hi tech mechanic can earn 70K per year, when I earn much less as a computer analysis clerk! And I have to pay him to fix my Range Rover :thinking:--Something wrong with this picture !!!

Complexity of course is now taking the DIY part of doing your own car maintenance away and its going away very fast!
The cost is spiraling up in repair parts and the skill level needed to install and program the component in question! Which again most even on this forum cannot achieve repair excellence with the tools at hand simply because they are so costly to own and maintain in annual update fees.
I suppose boiled down it a helpless feeling for some and they feel held to ransom.
But you have a choice you know!
Either try to fix it yourself or hire someone trained to fix it! (Might even be a well trained Mexican or Latino from somewhere south of the border! OMG to "some" Americans)
Its that simple.


If you want to excel as a DIY'r why not enroll in a MV Tech repair course ?
There are lots of colleges teaching this stuff!
Lincoln Tech or Arapaho Community College in Litteton are great!
For about $40,000 to $80,000, you can even get a certificate of proficiency and maybe a degree in applied sciences !
These two colleges allowed me to get a full EPA proctored exam & licence in Refrigeration @ 50 years of age and the other a power train certificate on Hybrids and Electric cars @ 65 years old!.

I will leave you with thought for the evening though!
You are about to buy a new Sprinter at the dealer and you look at the the warranty support documentation & details !
Who is paying for that warranty support ?

Anyone know?
Dennis
Shop owner
 

ecowhale

Innovative CamperVan
Adding to the end user's frustration is the seemingly deliberate act of the manufacturer to make parts have planned obsolescence and convoluted repair techniques requiring the end user to depend on very highly qualified technicians which can be very hard to find. We often like to DIY not just to save money (sometimes it costs more DIY due to our errors), but because the dealers in particular take too long to perform the work, mark parts up over 100%, make mistakes also (but rarely admit or take responsibility for), etc. The manufacturer seems to design many things on purpose (proprietary) so the Mercedes (in particular) dealer can make more money. This is common, but not always the case. There are a lot of DIY friendly designs and great mechanics / shops.
 
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lindenengineering

Well-known member
Adding to the end user's frustration is the seemingly deliberate act of the manufacturer to make parts have planned obsolescence and convoluted repair techniques requiring the end user to depend on very highly qualified technicians which can be very hard to find. We often like to DIY not just to save money (sometimes it costs more DIY due to our errors), but because the dealers in particular take too long to perform the work, mark parts up over 100%, make mistakes also (but rarely admit or take responsibility for), etc. The manufacturer seems to design many things on purpose (proprietary) so the Mercedes (in particular) dealer can make more money. This is common, but not always the case. There are a lot of DIY friendly designs and great mechanics / shops.
Well OK
Some of your points taken , and concerns about manufacturers and their business posture products are understood as a member of the motoring public .
You complain about dealers making what appears on the face of it to be excessive profits and cite Mercedes in your text but have chosen to own or drive an MB product in your particular case .
So it begs the question why are you owning/driving an MB product when there are alternatives?
There is after all choice in the USA. No-one I am sure is forcing any of you own one!
So again those of you complaining about the product's complexity, and "challenges " to get it fixed and maintained! Why then did you buy that MB Products when there are alternatives?

So I have two questions now out there on this thread!

Who pays for the warranty on a new vehicle?
Why are you owning an MB product when there are challenges of all sorts to get it repaired/serviced.
 

ecowhale

Innovative CamperVan
Reason I own/drive a Sprinter: I originally intended on buying a ProMaster or Transit to live in full time while converting into an RV / mobile dwelling. The ProMaster was too short (I'm 6'4"). The Transit driving ergonomics were too tight and small for me. The Sprinter was just the right size in every regard. I also assumed since the Sprinter parts are made in Germany, they would be of high quality. For the most part, that is false. Most parts are cheaply made... many parts that should be metal are plastic.

The Sprinter is the most awesome out of all choices WHEN EVERYTHING WORKS. When a light comes on the dash, it could be a nightmare.
 

lindenengineering

Well-known member
Reason I own/drive a Sprinter: I originally intended on buying a ProMaster or Transit to live in full time while converting into an RV / mobile dwelling. The ProMaster was too short (I'm 6'4"). The Transit driving ergonomics were too tight and small for me. The Sprinter was just the right size in every regard. I also assumed since the Sprinter parts are made in Germany, they would be of high quality. For the most part, that is false. Most parts are cheaply made... many parts that should be metal are plastic.

The Sprinter is the most awesome out of all choices WHEN EVERYTHING WORKS. When a light comes on the dash, it could be a nightmare.



OK so shall we say its a sophisticated van with lots of bells and whistles making it a top choice!
When talking to many of my customers with diesels powered domestic PU's they will often state the same as you!
No surprises there!

So modern complexity of today's vehicles are trending beyond the scope of the ordinary owner for the most part to DIY fix them is satisfactory manner. With an average of 50 modules at least all working in concert and gateway data transmission its is doubtful many can even diagnose it satisfactorily let alone fix the problem in question.
So that leaves the dealer and suitability qualified vehicle mechanics and techs to fix these issues (often many fold complex in nature you mention)
So skill and knowledge comes at a price, often gained by at least 4 years in college and many years on the job.
I am sure many people in various industries/professions would share the same viewpoint!
Hence
That service price is reflected in the charges you receive at a repair facility to fix the issue in question,
Dennis
Mechanic & Shop Owner.
 

ecowhale

Innovative CamperVan
I think the customer pays for warranty support as factored into the price of the vehicle via an average (we all pay the same price for warranty, but some owners benefit from it more than others).
 

ecowhale

Innovative CamperVan
I agree with the labor cost based on education, experience and costs of tools if the service department is honest and ethical with me, but unfortunately at a rate far greater than doctors (but not lawyers), they are not. There are great mechanics (I'm sure you are one of them), but I have run into some horrible ones who claim to be Sprinter techs but don't know much about Sprinters and just "wing it" at my expense.
 

Frank Mc

New member
Well OK
Some of your points taken , and concerns about manufacturers and their business posture products are understood as a member of the motoring public .
You complain about dealers making what appears on the face of it to be excessive profits and cite Mercedes in your text but have chosen to own or drive an MB product in your particular case .
So it begs the question why are you owning/driving an MB product when there are alternatives?
There is after all choice in the USA. No-one I am sure is forcing any of you own one!
So again those of you complaining about the product's complexity, and "challenges " to get it fixed and maintained! Why then did you buy that MB Products when there are alternatives?

So I have two questions now out there on this thread!

Who pays for the warranty on a new vehicle?
Why are you owning an MB product when there are challenges of all sorts to get it repaired/serviced.
Good question Dennis , but for most of us who found out too late that once you step in dog **** it's a bit too late to get off , And so we bounce along trying to learn how to live with this monster ! Frank
 

Frank Mc

New member
Well OK
Some of your points taken , and concerns about manufacturers and their business posture products are understood as a member of the motoring public .
You complain about dealers making what appears on the face of it to be excessive profits and cite Mercedes in your text but have chosen to own or drive an MB product in your particular case .
So it begs the question why are you owning/driving an MB product when there are alternatives?
There is after all choice in the USA. No-one I am sure is forcing any of you own one!
So again those of you complaining about the product's complexity, and "challenges " to get it fixed and maintained! Why then did you buy that MB Products when there are alternatives?

So I have two questions now out there on this thread!

Who pays for the warranty on a new vehicle?
Why are you owning an MB product when there are challenges of all sorts to get it repaired/serviced.
Good question Dennis , but for most of us who found out too late that once you step in dog **** it's a bit too late to get it off , And so we bounce along trying to learn how to live with this monster ! Frank
 

lindenengineering

Well-known member
Actually Frank I think its a great product.
Yes it presents lots of challenges to fix at times but in many cases much better than dealing with say a Duramax .
I enjoy working on Sprinters and I like the precision.

That is one of the obstacles to DIY fixing or in the Pro shop getting paid for it.!
You need to be precise and tackle the task in hand appropriately.
Dennis
 

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