Reaching Normal Temp...How Long Should it Take?

Gwilym

Member
My Sprinter, year 2000 208CDi, has always taken an age to warm up.

In fact in winter even with the Auxiliary Eberspacer which my sprinter has, it still takes ages to warm up. If I drive around town slowly on a really cold day it doesn't even reach normal temperature.

On the open roads it will fully warm up.

I had Pentagon Mercedes replace the Thermostat because of this but it didn't make any difference.

Any ideas? :thinking:
 

Cheyenne

UK 2004 T1N 313CDi
Hi Gwilym,

First question, are you absolutely certain your eSpar Aux heater is working?

My 2004 is the same 4 cylinder engine as yours and I can idle it on the drive with the eSpar running and have nice warm air within 2 to 3 minutes. If I set off down the road with 5 minutes I have to turn the heat down.

Check the eSpar exhaust in the LHF wheelarch for fumes/heat with the engine running and the eSpar turned on. It should be very obvious if it is functioning.

As for heat without the eSpar, then I think you will have to drive for a fair few miles to get any meaningful warmth from the heater.

My guess would be that your eSpar is not working :cry:

Keith.
 

ECU

Well-known member
How is the aux water pump? A non working one will keep your internal heater cool.
 

Old Crows

Calypso 2014 View Profile
Diesels don't warm like a gas motor. They have large efficient cooling systems and at low RPM they will not generate a lot of heat...like at idle or low speed ops. But it should get up to near operating temp..eventually.

If it has a fan clutch...check.to see that it's operating correctly. It may be locked "ON" and that won't help.

If all is good, you might try running a lower gear to keep the revs up. That will get the engine hotter.

(I think ya''ll have been having really cold weather in Jolly Old. That does not help at all.....)
 

Gwilym

Member
Sorry I didn't make it clear but the eSpar is working I had Merc service it a few years ago. Engine does warm up a little quicker with eSpar switched on.

And by the way, as I understand it, my eSpar is an Auxiliary Water Heater. Unfortunately not one which is wired to run independently and warm cabin air with the engine off. I think you have to fit a separate control unit to get the eSpar working independently of the engine?

It isn't so much the lack of cabin hot air that I miss on short winter journeys, it is the actual engine temperature which i find odd not warming up fully when I am tootling around slowly on town roads, in the winter.

Traffic congestion in UK towns is horrendous!

I will check the cooling fan clutch...should it be completely off, i.e. not spinning, until the engine warms up?

Also, I didn't realise there was an 'Aux water pump'. Just assumed the main pump put water through the eSpar, so I will check.

Maybe this is just normal for a diesel Sprinter?
 
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Cheyenne

UK 2004 T1N 313CDi
Hi again Gwilym,

Yes I agree about traffic in the UK, it's getting dire at the best of times!

The Aux water pump is located on the bulkhead near the battery. With engine running feel for vibrations to check it is running. If in doubt check for voltage at plug or wire directly to 12 V to test.

With your engine idling turn on your eSpar and then go and listen under bonnet for the 'Jet engine' noise and feel the steel water lines running from the eSpar up the inner wing behind the battery. Within a couple of minutes one pipe should get too hot to hold. If the eSpar runs for a couple of minutes then shuts down before you can feel heat in the pipes then it is a fair bet your Aux water pump is not running and the eSpar is going into 'Overheat' shutdown.

HTH.
Keith.
 

Aqua Puttana

Poly - Thread Finder
.... I think you have to fit a separate control unit to get the eSpar working independently of the engine?

...
Assuming that you have the REST feature, there is a rather simple circuit to allow engine pre-heat.

https://sprinter-source.com/forum/showthread.php?t=36797

This temperature thread is for the 5 cylinder engine, but should be similar for other Mercedes diesels.

T1N Engine Temperature Normal High Low

https://sprinter-source.com/forum/showthread.php?t=47965


Maybe this is just normal for a diesel Sprinter?
No. Not by the symptoms you describe.

vic
 
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Gwilym

Member
Don't think I have the REST feature? The eSpar just has one button, on and off. Previous owner assumed it was for air con which was not working!

Thanks for info about how to Check aux pump by feeling water pipe. I definitely get the jet engine noise because I remember, now you mention it, there is a jet engine sound which runs for a while after I stop...I always guessed it was burning off excess fuel like a boat motor?

Thanks for all the comments hopefully I will get time tomorrow or over the weekend to go over everything mentioned.:thumbup:
 

cahaak

New member
If the engine is running, it doesn't matter if the Aux pump is working or not because the regular water pump will circulate plenty of fluid. If you can't reach temp in cold weather, block the radiator, it does help. At best, it is hard to get above about 185 F or 85C at low operating speeds in the winter.

Chris
 

Gwilym

Member
The more anecdotal evidence I am hearing, here, makes me think my Sprinter cooling system is not faulty.

It is about 3c here and I have just been for a drive:

She very slowly warmed up to about 80 while driving at speeds up to 40 mph. If I stop and let the van idle the temp slowly drops to about 50 then if I switch the jet engine on...the eSpar....it slowly comes back up to nearly 80.

The eSpar pipes are nice and hot, I checked them as advised above. Are you sure the eSpar has an Aux pump I couldn't see one?

The fan keeps running all the time but I think this is normal isn't it? Doesn't it kick in at a higher rate when the engine gets hot like my old Merc 190?

:clapping::clapping::clapping: I haven't seen anything like mrbond10's radiator jacket since my dad's air cooled Citroens in the 60's & 70's....Wonderful cars, After he owned a water cooled DS he bought an Ami 6, Ami 8, GS and, of course, he had a few 2CV's! He was a WW2 pilot :bow: and loved those air cooled cars and I remember him putting the radiator jackets on in the winter!

Oh, and to correct something I said earlier which was wrong, I do actually get warm cabin air pretty much from the get go. Even when the temp needle hasn't started to show warming.
 
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misterbond10

New member
the electric fan is running? is your a/c system on? that doesn't sound normal unless a/c is on, maybe others can chime in
 

Cheyenne

UK 2004 T1N 313CDi
Are you sure the eSpar has an Aux pump I couldn't see one?
Hi Gwilym,

If you have a water pump it will be mounted directly to the bulkhead just to the left of the battery below the heater intake duct. Follow the steel lines from the eSpar heater up the inner wing, round behind the battery and heater duct and you should arrive at the pump.

If you still can't find it I'll try and find a photo.

Keith.
 

Gwilym

Member
the electric fan is running? is your a/c system on? that doesn't sound normal unless a/c is on, maybe others can chime in
I don't have a/c.

The fan is running all of the time, isn't this normal for my year 2000(208CDi)?

It is driven constantly by the poly v belt and there is a booster if temp gets high....I think so anyway. I'm not a mechanic. Perhaps newer models don't work the same way as a year 2000 one?:idunno:
 

Gwilym

Member
Hi Gwilym,

If you have a water pump it will be mounted directly to the bulkhead just to the left of the battery below the heater intake duct. Follow the steel lines from the eSpar heater up the inner wing, round behind the battery and heater duct and you should arrive at the pump.

If you still can't find it I'll try and find a photo.

Keith.
Sorry Keith I can't find it and there is no info in my operation manual nor my repair manual, a photo would be very helpful:clapping:

Is it possible that, since my eSpar is purely to boost water temp and only Works with the engine running, it does not have an aux pump?:hmmm:

German manufacturers are Devils for thinking up as many conceivable ways as possible to get money for extras! And my eSpar only has an on off switch, not a timer/programmable control panel.
 

Aqua Puttana

Poly - Thread Finder
...

German manufacturers are Devils for thinking up as many conceivable ways as possible to get money for extras! And my eSpar only has an on off switch, not a timer/programmable control panel.
My GUESS is that all NAS aka NAFTA OM647 engines with an EGR have the aux electric coolant pump. The inlet of the pump is connected directly to the EGR coolant circuit pipe.

Engines without a water circuit type EGR valve (NAS aka NAFTA OM612 and other Euro models) may or may not have the aux pump depending upon what options are ordered.

I have not researched the differences to confirm.

vic
 

Aqua Puttana

Poly - Thread Finder
It takes my '06 3500 T1N about 6 min to get coolant to 180 F.
It takes about 25 min to get transmission to 180F.
Out of curiosity...

Why did the coolant start out close to 10F degrees higher than the air intake temperature?

Was the engine slightly warm?

vic
 

calbiker

Active member
Not sure, my best guess is the air intake temp is slightly too low. It shouldn't go below ambient, but it does in the graph. Perhaps there's a 5 to 10 deg offset error (maybe 218 should be 228 in the equation below). I measured sensor voltage and then converted voltage into temperature.

My conversions:

Tair_in = 218 - 40 * V
Tamb = 150 - 33.3 * V
Tcool = 247 - 45.6 * V
Tfuel = 289 - 60 * V
Ttrans = 254.7 * V - 244

Now that you brought it up, can you double check those for me???
 

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