Alternator Charging Specs

[smiller]

Just to be clear, in a battery charging system, voltage is king. The current data is very unimpressive when alt voltage is 13.7 to 14.0V (your normal situation). You need higher voltage to push current through the batteries.

Don't recall what battery you're charging, but my house batteries want to see 14.8V. They will not get fully charged when charging at 14.0V.

You might be able to charge to 80% soc with your alt. I would not call that a viable option.

I'm not sure what vehicle the OP owns but since the chart was for an NCV3 V6 then I will assume that's what he has. If so, as I clearly pointed out the V6 electrical system maintains approx. 14.1 volts (and that is indeed what I measure at my house battery bank while the engine is running) and that is quite adequate to push more than enough current (60+ amps isn't enough?) thorough the batteries. and while 14.1 is a little low for an absorption charge rate it is plenty sufficient to fully charge a FLA battery. It is indeed not an ideal charge regimen so a full 3-stage charge should be applied when stopped and connected to shore power (which is why anyone should replace the OEM converter with a proper charger), but in-between times the vehicular electrical system (at least with the NCV3 V6) can indeed provide an adequate (if not ideal) charge cycle. Countless RVs operate this way with good results. If you are never able connect to shore power and thus apply a good soaking absorption charge then you should probably have an alternative, but that is not typical in most cases.

The above is in reference to a V6. If a T1N can only supply 13 volts as you noted earlier in the thread then that is a different story, although I have to say I'm surprised if the T1N electrical system is really that deficient. Can't say though as I've never owned one.

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[mikeme]

Yes, and I think it is going to get even more complicated for the I4 in 2017. It isn't at all clear that there is still room on the new I4 engine for an auxiliary alternator. The space previously used for that application is now occupied by the exhaust treatment system. There are some youtube videos about that engine for those curious about it.

a link to a few videos would be helpful

 

[calbiker]

You're missing the main point in this discussion. Not all NCV3's are equal. Your alt charging profile is completely different that the OP's. His normal alt voltage is 13.7 to 14.0V.

I disagree the OP's alternator is adequate to fully charge his house batteries. At those *low* voltages, the charge rate is minimal. An hour of driving might only add 20AH to the house battery. Charging currents are way to small. Granted, you might see 60A when the engine is started, but that current will quickly taper.

I've done a lot of battery testing. Here's a plot of a PD9260 (60A converter) and a Parallax 7345 (45A converter) charging two G24 house batteries that are discharged to 50% SOC. The PD outputs about 14.1V and the 7345 outputs 13.7V. Even though the PD can output 60A, after a few minutes, it only charges with 22A (and tapering), while the 7345 charges at less than 15A.

As I previously stated, voltage is king. You can have an alt with 1000A potential, but it's not going to do diddly at 13.7V.

I'm not sure what vehicle the OP owns but since the chart was for an NCV3 V6 then I will assume that's what he has. If so, as I clearly pointed out the V6 electrical system maintains approx. 14.1 volts (and that is indeed what I measure at my house battery bank while the engine is running) and that is quite adequate to push more than enough current (60+ amps isn't enough?) thorough the batteries. and while 14.1 is a little low for an absorption charge rate it is plenty sufficient to fully charge a FLA battery.

 

[smiller]

You're missing the main point in this discussion. Not all NCV3's are equal. Your alt charging profile is completely different that the OP's. His normal alt voltage is 13.7 to 14.0V.

I'm not sure why you say that the OP's charging profile is completely different than mine since his profile indicates a 2007 NCV3 V6, which is exactly what I have. Assuming that his forum profile is still correct then his nominal bus voltage should be 14.1 and everything I said above applies. If he is only seeing only mid-13 volts on a V6 then he has an electrical problem to troubleshoot, but that's a one-off problem. The normal V6 electrical system is more than adequate to supply all the charge current a typical FLA or AGM battery bank could need for bulk charging, if not more, and 14.1 volts is a lower than ideal but adequate compromise bulk/absorption voltage for recharges between stops. As noted above I would personally advise supplementing with a full 3-stage charge when shore power is available but for intermittent road use the V6 electrical system (assuming it is in proper operating condition) is quite adequate to fully recharge the batteries. I have monitored extensively and if I start out at a 50% SOC I will see a bulk charge current of about 60 amps as long as the battery will accept it, of course tapering as the battery comes up. After a couple of hours the battery stabilizes at 14.1 volts with nil current draw (under C/100), indicating a fully charged battery.

Again, a T1N or a power-managed I4, I dunno. But for my vehicle, what I believe the OP's vehicle to be, and the vast number of V6 models out there the above is true. But sure, if the OP or anyone else does have a T1N and the bus voltage is really as low/poorly regulated as you state then yeah, it's quite possible the stock charging system would be marginal to charge house batteries. And if the OP has a V6 and is seeing 13.4-13.7 volts when cold and 13.7-14.0 in normal conditions then he needs to find out what malfunction is causing it.


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[Spike HG]

I'm not sure why you say that the OP's charging profile is completely different than mine since his profile indicates a 2007 NCV3 V6, which is exactly what I have. Assuming that his forum profile is still correct then his nominal bus voltage should be 14.1 and everything I said above applies. The V6 electrical system is more than adequate to supply all the charge current a typical FLA or AGM battery bank could need for bulk charging, if not more, and 14.1 volts is a low but adequate compromise bulk/absorption voltage for recharges between stops. As noted above I would personally advise supplementing with a full 3-stage charge when shore power is available but for intermittent road use the V6 electrical system (assuming it is in proper operating condition) is quite adequate to fully recharge the batteries. I have monitored extensively and if I start out at a 50% SOC I will see a bulk charge current of about 60 amps as long as the battery will accept it, and of course tapering as the battery comes up. After a couple of hours the battery stabilizes at 14.1 volts with nil current draw (under C/100), indicating a fully charged battery.

Again, a T1N or a power-managed I4, I dunno. But for my vehicle, what I believe the OP's vehicle to be, and the vast number of V6 models out there, the above is true.

RE:2016, 220 ALT

Can see above listed, not sure why other's can't. I do have one in drive way, that can't hurt my view. Did some #s gathering myself

https://sprinter-source.com/forums/attachment.php?attachmentid=80740&d=1478366238

https://sprinter-source.com/forums/attachment.php?attachmentid=80740&d=1478366238

https://sprinter-source.com/forums/attachment.php?attachmentid=80740&d=1478366238

 

[Spike HG]

RE:2016, 220 ALT

Can see above listed, not sure why other's can't. I do have one in drive way, that can't hurt my view. Did some #s gathering myself from the 450 AH battery pack.

https://sprinter-source.com/forums/attachment.php?attachmentid=80740&d=1478366238

https://sprinter-source.com/forums/attachment.php?attachmentid=80740&d=1478366238

https://sprinter-source.com/forums/attachment.php?attachmentid=80740&d=1478366238

Plan is, get some #s. Get some before start, get some after diner drive.

EXP technology with integrated printer, designed for preventative maintenance programs

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Only seen one used, so tip's welcomed

http://www.midtronics.com/shop/prod...xp-800-battery-tester-with-integrated-printer

 

[kcshoots]

Just to be clear, in a battery charging system, voltage is king. The current data is very unimpressive when alt voltage is 13.7 to 14.0V (your normal situation). You need higher voltage to push current through the batteries.

Don't recall what battery you're charging, but my house batteries want to see 14.8V. They will not get fully charged when charging at 14.0V.

You might be able to charge to 80% soc with your alt. I would not call that a viable option.

Yes, you are absolutely correct. I see much higher house battery charging voltages from my solar system and shore power via the charger, and these not one charge the house batteries up faster but also seem to be much better at maintaining a high SOC. Although I can maintain 90+% house battery SOC easily with my alternator but that is in conjunction with solar and/or shore to prevent SOC's below 80%.

 

[calbiker]

OK, I have no knowledge what the OP has. He didn't say. I was inferring his is different because the alt voltages are different than yours. BTW, I believe his voltage readings are more realistic.

If he has an '07, then there's probably a 180A alt?

This is getting off topic, but my scangauge reads considerably different than chassis battery voltage (with Fluke meter).

I'm not sure why you say that the OP's charging profile is completely different than mine since his profile indicates a 2007 NCV3 V6, which is exactly what I have.

 

[smiller]

BTW, I believe his voltage readings are more realistic.

I can't address your beliefs but as I mentioned voltages in that range are not correct for an NCV3 V6, and if the issue is left unattended other problems are likely to arise.

 

[Spike HG]

Plan is, get some #s. Get some before start, get some after diner drive.

What would we like to see? Manual listed below, planning on tonight.

http://www.midtronics.com/templates...f/168-547A EXP-800 NAS Instruction Manual.pdf

EXPChapter 7: System Test
EXP-800
Charging System Test
When you press NEXT in any test result screen, the analyzer proceeds to the Charging System Test.
1. CHECKING FOR ALTERNATOR OUTPUT: The analyzer is testing for alternator voltage.
2. TURN ALL VEHICLE LOADS OFF, IDLE ENGINE: Turn off vehicle loads (blowers, interior light, radio, etc.) and idle the engine. Press the NEXT soft key to continue. NOTE: If necessary the analyzer will ask if you are testing a diesel engine. It will resume testing after you make your selection.
3. REV ENGINE WITH LOADS OFF FOR 5 SECONDS: Rev the engine with the loads off. Gradually increase the rpm until the analyzer tells you to HOLD the rev level as the bar on the display moves to the right. NOTE: Some 8-cylinder and older vehicles idle at a high level after starting, allowing the analyzer to detect the rev automatically.
4. ACQUIRING DATA....HOLD ENGINE RPM: Continue to hold the rpm while the analyzer takes system measurements.
5. ENGINE REV DETECTED, IDLE ENGINE: The analyzer has detected the rev. Press the NEXT soft key.
6. TESTING ALTERNATOR AT IDLE, LOADS OFF: The analyzer will next test the engine at idle for comparison to other readings, and then test the diode ripple. Excessive ripple usually means one or more diodes have failed in the alternator or there is stator damage.
7. TURN HIGH BEAMS AND BLOWER MOTOR ON, IDLE ENGINE: After a few seconds, the analyzer will ask you to turn on the accessory loads. It will determine if the charging system is able to provide enough current for the demands of the electrical system.
IMPORTANT: Turn on the high-beam headlights and the blower to high. Do not use cyclical loads such as air conditioning or windshield wipers.
8. TESTING ALTERNATOR AT IDLE, LOADS ON: The analyzer will determine if the charging system is able to provide sufficient current for the demands of the vehicle’s electrical system.
9. REV ENGINE WITH LOADS ON FOR 5 SECONDS: The analyzer will test the charging system with the loads on and prompt you to rev the engine. Gradually increase the rev until the analyzer tells you to HOLD the rev level as the bar on the display moves to the right.
10. ACQUIRING DATA....HOLD ENGINE RPM: Continue to hold the rpm while the analyzer takes system measurements.
11. ENGINE REV DETECTED, IDLE ENGINE: The analyzer has detected the rev. Press the NEXT soft key.
12. ANALYZING CHARGING SYSTEM DATA: The analyzer is completing its final analysis of the charging system data.
13. TURN OFF LOADS AND ENGINE: Press the NEXT soft key to display the results. See Table 5 on the next page for an explanation for the test decisions. NOTE: When the option TRACK CALLS is enabled, the EXP writes the results to the data card.
Charging System Test Results
Alternator decisionLoads-off DC voltage at revLoads-on DC voltage at rev
Normal DC voltage rangeBar graph showing DC voltage within normal range with loads on and off
Graph of diode waveformPeak-to-peak AC voltage

 

[zozo]

2022 3500 V6 Cargo Van: does anyone know what 2022 sprinter alternator amp output is??

 

[kcshoots]

the Mercedes body builder guide has this information which you can download. Here it is for the previous generation Sprinter.

 

[wwwtractor]

I have been watching the voltage on my 2016 Sprinter 3500 when running and it sits at 14 Volts most of the time. I also watch the voltage with the Victron SmartSolar 100/50 controller where I can see spikes up and down as I go along depending on the devices operating. I have the Airstream Interstate Grand Tour 24 foot RV and when the AGM batteries died I added a Shunbin 400 Amp Hour LiFePO4 over a year ago. I do not have any known problems. I am considering adding a lithium starting battery as more automotive H8 form factors seem to be appearing. My thinking is that the charging parameters on the batteries will be better matched for charging management and I can use the lithium to boost my total battery capability to 500 Amp Hours. I get 30 Amps going into the Shunbin when the vehicle is running at idle.

 

[4wheeldog]

While it may work just fine, I suspect that a LiFePO4 for a chassis battery will be expensive, and add complexity, since you will have to have a heated starter battery. And one of the major advantages of LiFePO4 will be moot, since the chassis battery should never see deep discharge.
I don't currently have LiFePO4, still using AGM, but solar does most of the house battery charging for me, so having a similar charge profile would also be a moot point.

 

[OrioN]

I have been watching the voltage on my 2016 Sprinter 3500 when running and it sits at 14 Volts most of the time. I also watch the voltage with the Victron SmartSolar 100/50 controller where I can see spikes up and down as I go along depending on the devices operating. I have the Airstream Interstate Grand Tour 24 foot RV and when the AGM batteries died I added a Shunbin 400 Amp Hour LiFePO4 over a year ago. I do not have any known problems. I am considering adding a lithium starting battery as more automotive H8 form factors seem to be appearing. My thinking is that the charging parameters on the batteries will be better matched for charging management and I can use the lithium to boost my total battery capability to 500 Amp Hours. I get 30 Amps going into the Shunbin when the vehicle is running at idle.

Will this Li battery be designed specifically as a starter battery?