Boxster1971
2023 Sprinter 2500 144wb AWD
The installation/owner's manual for the inverter should tell you the proper mounting configurations. I know the Magnum manual does and they can be installed in nearly any orientation but upside down.
Lithium battery install
- Thread starter Eugene Rider
- Start date
Eugene Rider,
The Victron only uses 20 amps max while charging. For a reference, the Magnum uses around 18 amps. You can set the shore power from 30 amps to say 15 amps if you are driveway boon-docking. The load is satisfied first and the Victron charger will use what is left. The A/C is already wired to the breakers so I don't know why you mentioned it needs 10 gauge.
The output from the Victron inverter is fed to the breakers. I would run 8 gauge for that run. One can generate a load greater than 30 amps and the Victron will take 30 amps from shore and augment the difference with more amps from the batteries. Therefore more than 30 amps will be output from the Victron inverter.
It sounds like you are going under the Unity to run cable from the battery compartment to the breaker compartment.
The Victron only uses 20 amps max while charging. For a reference, the Magnum uses around 18 amps. You can set the shore power from 30 amps to say 15 amps if you are driveway boon-docking. The load is satisfied first and the Victron charger will use what is left. The A/C is already wired to the breakers so I don't know why you mentioned it needs 10 gauge.
The output from the Victron inverter is fed to the breakers. I would run 8 gauge for that run. One can generate a load greater than 30 amps and the Victron will take 30 amps from shore and augment the difference with more amps from the batteries. Therefore more than 30 amps will be output from the Victron inverter.
It sounds like you are going under the Unity to run cable from the battery compartment to the breaker compartment.
Eugene Rider
2016 Unity TB
It's been a tough road, yesterday I went backwards. Came up with a different plan, ripped most of a day’s work out and started again.
Today was a great day, got all the BIG cables ran, fuse,, batteries , and grounds done. I have not found a good schematic so doing it seat of the pants.
I have three automotive shops but get to many distraction’s so doing in the gravel carport a home.
It’s really cramped and have to work on my back or knees, body feels good.
Need to have it done Thursday for the http://ipnc.org/.
Think I’m crazy for doing this, the stock system was pretty good.
Today was a great day, got all the BIG cables ran, fuse,, batteries , and grounds done. I have not found a good schematic so doing it seat of the pants.
I have three automotive shops but get to many distraction’s so doing in the gravel carport a home.
It’s really cramped and have to work on my back or knees, body feels good.
Need to have it done Thursday for the http://ipnc.org/.
Think I’m crazy for doing this, the stock system was pretty good.
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Eugene Rider,
Your first picture shows 2 Victron batteries on their side and the partially removed sheet metal that contained the original LTV inverter. Is there space behind the sheet metal? The batteries appear to come out just to the rear of the sheet metal.
You said you will be installing 4 batteries. Will they go in front of the 2 shown? Also it appears that the batteries would fit standing up but would be hard to wire unless a slide tray was used.
My last question is the old generator compartment that is empty since you are using a second alternator. Is that compartment the same size as the one you are using?
Barry
Your first picture shows 2 Victron batteries on their side and the partially removed sheet metal that contained the original LTV inverter. Is there space behind the sheet metal? The batteries appear to come out just to the rear of the sheet metal.
You said you will be installing 4 batteries. Will they go in front of the 2 shown? Also it appears that the batteries would fit standing up but would be hard to wire unless a slide tray was used.
My last question is the old generator compartment that is empty since you are using a second alternator. Is that compartment the same size as the one you are using?
Barry
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Eugene Rider
2016 Unity TB
I have installed just two of the four batteries. One will go in the row next to the other 2, the fourth will in front of the batteries with the positive heading toward the front of the vehicle. I post a video when done. No side, they are easy to get to the terminals.
I didn't get a generator and it was made to be a storage compartment just like the other storage compartment.
Eugene Rider
2016 Unity TB
Well, the system is in, works like a champ. I just got the last two lithium batteries, need to install them to complete the project.
For recap.
Install 3 more solar panels for a total of 500 watts or more like 380 watts under ideal conditions.
Installed at 280 amp alternator (i have no generator) with a nice (and expensive) Balmar regulator. Ran a 2 gauge wire back to the inverter. I can wire it direct, the regulator controls the alternator function. I have a signal pole relay that gets shut off by the Victron VE.Bus BMS. I also installed a dash switch to turn off the alternator when driving if I don't need to charge the batteries. Would use this when driving from shore power to shore power place.The inverter 120 volt input and output has to be on separate 120 volt circuits, the stock circuit breaker box is able to handle that other then the neutral buss, had to cut that in two. I wires the fridge to the input side of the 120 volt so that it will still be automatic to gas unless we are on shore power.
I used the stock battery box with the one behind so it doesn't take up much room.The generator area is storage so all and all, didn't use any space.
Yes, I can run my A/C. microwave and all on batteries. Don't plan on using A/C much except for after lunch naps in hot areas.
For recap.
Install 3 more solar panels for a total of 500 watts or more like 380 watts under ideal conditions.
Installed at 280 amp alternator (i have no generator) with a nice (and expensive) Balmar regulator. Ran a 2 gauge wire back to the inverter. I can wire it direct, the regulator controls the alternator function. I have a signal pole relay that gets shut off by the Victron VE.Bus BMS. I also installed a dash switch to turn off the alternator when driving if I don't need to charge the batteries. Would use this when driving from shore power to shore power place.The inverter 120 volt input and output has to be on separate 120 volt circuits, the stock circuit breaker box is able to handle that other then the neutral buss, had to cut that in two. I wires the fridge to the input side of the 120 volt so that it will still be automatic to gas unless we are on shore power.
I used the stock battery box with the one behind so it doesn't take up much room.The generator area is storage so all and all, didn't use any space.
Yes, I can run my A/C. microwave and all on batteries. Don't plan on using A/C much except for after lunch naps in hot areas.
Attachments
Eugene Rider
2016 Unity TB
Here all all 4 Lithium Iron batteries install, wired and ready to go.
I took the old sheet metal battery holders and put them on the back wall so to hold the plywood in the back. Will fasten with two chains or ?? to hold the batteries in case of roll over.
Dang, thought this would bring more interest.
I took the old sheet metal battery holders and put them on the back wall so to hold the plywood in the back. Will fasten with two chains or ?? to hold the batteries in case of roll over.
Dang, thought this would bring more interest.
Attachments
DieselFumes
2015 4x4 2500 170 Crew
I'm really impressed with this install - you fitted a lot in to a small space. A couple of questions, though.
1) Did you get an answer from Victron about whether it's OK to use the inverter on its side?
2) The lithium battery manual says "The Li-ion battery must be transported in its original or equivalent package and in an upright position." I know that my (different brand) LiFePO4 batteries specifically state that they MUST be used in an upright position. The electrolyte in the cells is not designed for mounting in any position like some AGMs are. Have you checked with Victron that it's OK to use them on their sides? Sorry to sound like I'm nagging, but you just spent a lot of money on those big blue boxes and it would be nice if they didn't leak electrolyte all over your RV.
3) What will you be covering the battery terminals with? Lots of opportunities for short circuits across the terminals as they are placed now. Especially if you end up using chains (?!) to attach anything in that compartment. Thick nylon straps might be more appropriate than chains.
1) Did you get an answer from Victron about whether it's OK to use the inverter on its side?
2) The lithium battery manual says "The Li-ion battery must be transported in its original or equivalent package and in an upright position." I know that my (different brand) LiFePO4 batteries specifically state that they MUST be used in an upright position. The electrolyte in the cells is not designed for mounting in any position like some AGMs are. Have you checked with Victron that it's OK to use them on their sides? Sorry to sound like I'm nagging, but you just spent a lot of money on those big blue boxes and it would be nice if they didn't leak electrolyte all over your RV.
3) What will you be covering the battery terminals with? Lots of opportunities for short circuits across the terminals as they are placed now. Especially if you end up using chains (?!) to attach anything in that compartment. Thick nylon straps might be more appropriate than chains.
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Freedom Seeker
New member
Looking very closely at Li-ion system myself as I am currently undertaking a build. Found a really interesting article about Premature Battery Aging, charging, float rates and the possible effect temperature has on longevity (battery decline over time). I am envious of your Li-ion kit and you have obviously worked ver hard on this install. I commend you...
http://www.technomadia.com/2015/02/living-the-lithium-lifestyle-3-5-year-lithium-rv-battery-update/
http://www.technomadia.com/2015/02/living-the-lithium-lifestyle-3-5-year-lithium-rv-battery-update/
Eugene Rider
2016 Unity TB
They weigh 31 pounds apiece so that is 124 total weight. The weight limit is 140 so I have lots of extra weight, oh, it's a close call but ok.
Yes, I installed a Color control and BMV-702 and the inverter controller. I had the fridge out 4 times to run wires for my directions were not clear. One of the toughest job was to make the passage way in the front side of the fridge, where the 12 volt switch is, large enough is put 0 gauge wire to and from the on/off switch and all 6 wires running up behind the micro wave to the control panel above the door. There is a area below the fridge that is about 3 inches of open area that can't be gotten to so needs to open it up from above and below, wood, insulation and sheet metal.
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Eugene Rider
2016 Unity TB
The bulk charge is about 14.5 volts and the float is 13.48 volts.
This is set by a setting in the Victron Phoenix Inverter 3000VA, 12 volt.
Peter Tourin
2020 Unity RL, ex 2012 Unity MB
How do you understand that float charge? I'd think the bulk charge would push the batteries up to the low 14's - if the batteries rest at around 13.8, I'd think the float would do absolutely nothing, since it'd be below the battery voltage. Do you think the float setting does anything at all, or is it simply a handy way of configuring the charger so that there's no charging after the batteries are up to a certain setpoint?
Eugene Rider
2016 Unity TB
Peter, I don't know the voltage that the batteries are fully charged. I have asked that question to folks at AM Solar that know much more then me but have not gotten an answer back. It seems they are not like flooded batteries. It was important to me the weekend I went it an event and didn't have everything done.
I just went out and checked the voltage when it is in float charge and it was 13.48 volts so I think that is correct. Just went out, still in float charge mode and the voltage is 14.15 volts.
The answer is they are still way to new to say and I'm not going to say I know.
Peter Tourin
2020 Unity RL, ex 2012 Unity MB
It'll be interesting to hear as you find out what the system does in real life. My biggest surprise was when I started to graph voltage vs current when I charged with my Progressive Dynamics special lithium charger - they described what it was, had curves and descriptions of how constant current/constant voltage chargers were supposed to work - and that's not what I saw <g>... Real life sometimes doesn't mirror theory! Hope you have as good a time playing with it as I'm having with mine <g>...
Eugene Rider
2016 Unity TB
The switch came from Benz, they send me a fax picture of the different switches I could use, this one looks most like an alternator. It has a light that comes on.
I have not put the door back on the monitor area yet, it has to come off to get the panel off so when I'm sure it's right, I will install the cover back.
I'm getting the Benz kit to idle up the idle for when I'm recharging the Lithium batteries with the engine at camp, $730 for the kit. Has to call Patrick at the Benz store in Eugene 3 times to insure Benz made this kit.
He thought I was crazy, well true but Benz does make the kit.
I have not put the door back on the monitor area yet, it has to come off to get the panel off so when I'm sure it's right, I will install the cover back.
I'm getting the Benz kit to idle up the idle for when I'm recharging the Lithium batteries with the engine at camp, $730 for the kit. Has to call Patrick at the Benz store in Eugene 3 times to insure Benz made this kit.
He thought I was crazy, well true but Benz does make the kit.
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