T1N Engine Temperature Normal High Low

[220629]

First. My latest opinion.

The "Anything up to 250F is ok" myth.
Based upon postings, no properly cooling Sprinter (T1N/NCV3) should be attaining 250F even under what may be considered extreme conditions. If your Sprinter is regularly climbing to near 250F check the cooling system.

...

My opinion.
If operators are using a coolant gauge temperature of 250F as an action point they are taking their chances. If you react at 250F then the engine temperature is likely to get above that by the time your solutions take effect.

I recommend operator intervention (gear down, slow down) before 250F, no matter what engine oil or viscosity is being used, or what a dealership tells you. Maybe 230 235F as an action point? I have no data except that a properly cooling Sprinter should not be regularly attaining a 250F coolant temperature.

vic

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Typical Engine Operating Temperatures for my 2004 and 2006.

The Sprinter engine temperature gauge will vary. Many remember a rock steady Detroit Iron engine temperature. Varying temp is normal.

******
Misc. Garrett info. http://www.turbobygarrett.com/turbobygarrett/pressure_ratio
******

Some posts for my 2004 and 2006 2500 140 HC Roof Sprinters.

The OEM gauge scaling is 35F for the divisions. 180F is marked. 250F is marked. The mid mark is 215F. 1/2 way between the 180F and the unlabeled 215F is 197.5 (180 + 17.5) or 200F. Thermostat design is 195F.

...

To keep everyone talking about the same gauge information, here is a picture of the T1N gauge with my opinions included.



The Sprinter Operator Manual allows temperatures to 250F. Go that high if you wish. My experience with T1N's is that a properly operating cooling system will keep things cooler than 250F.

*****************
I recommend that operators watch their operating indications to establish their "normal". General information from other Sprinters can be applied when watching yours.

...
As a general rule I don't concern myself with 215F or even a bit higher when towing in hotter ambient temperatures. I don't expect to see 215F very often even with typical vacation cargo loading when not towing. That said, on long climbs in very hot weather I may see that.

The "normal" operating temperature for a Sprinter will vary. By watching the gauge under different ambient conditions, loads, grades, etc. you will get an idea of your normal. After establishing your vehicle normal, if you notice that your typical engine temperatures begin to range higher it is probably time to clean the stack and check other components.

vic

ADDED:
Some dealerships will say that up to the red zone is ok.

My opinion. Don't believe them!! Posts and information in Sprinter-source indicate that a normally operating Sprinter will not see temperatures that high. If you are regularly jumping above 215F or so there is likely some maintenance needed. Again, circumstances, historical observation, and conditions apply. I would alter my operating situation if I ever were to see temperatures approaching the red.

*****************

In 45 - 80F ambient temperatures while not towing, casual observation notes my 2004 to run a tick below 180F, while my 2006 runs a tick above. Added: I suspect the 2006 is very normal, the 2004 a bit lower than design.

Added:

i have some data here based on overheating over time which may or may not have (most likely did according to the mechanic who rebuilt my engine) contribute to small cracks in my head and cracking my piston. i say over time because it wasn't very common that I approached the 250 mark on the gauge, but it did happen a couple times (never got it into the red).

ultimately I replaced my fan and fan clutch, serp belt, belt tensioner, idler pulleys, radiator, and pressure tested the coolant lines. I started off by replacing my fan/fan clutch with a new OEM fan/clutch and that did NOT fix the issue. I came across an archived posting by Linden Engineering stating that a faulty belt tensioner (and/or bad serpentine belt) combined with a properly working fan clutch can actually cause slippage as the clutch engages which causes the water pump to not turn at the appropriate rate hindering appropriate water flow through the system. it also causes the fan to not turn at the needed speed since the clutch itself is causing the slippage.

seeing as I replaced just about everything, I can's say it was the belt, belt tensioner, idler pulleys, or radiator replacement.

what i can say is that the same clutch now properly engages and i'm no longer over heating.

since i was paying such close attention to my operating temperatures before and after all my efforts, i might as well post some observations.

first thing to note is that just because your rig is operating between 180 - 190 F in normal operating conditions does not mean everything is operating correctly! I was operating at around 186 degrees before and after all the work I did on flat ground with temps in the mid to upper 70s. the test really comes in when you're in temps 95 F+ going up a grade. longer and steeper grade with lower ambient temps will properly test the system as well.

prior to fixing my issue, when outside temps were approaching 95 F or so and I would go up a 3 mile sustained 6-8% grade near my house I would top out at about 225 F and it would stay there for a while. Even though this is not in the red, if you hit these kinds of temps regularly or somewhat often when it gets hot outside, i feel you are asking for trouble. at least i experienced 'trouble' thinking that just because I wasn't in the red I was okay.

post fix, similar temps and same grade, my temps would top off at about 209 and only stay there briefly. really, 16 degrees can make that big of a difference??????? guess so...

Great input.

I have some data here based on overheating over time which may or may not have (most likely did according to the mechanic who rebuilt my engine) contribute to small cracks in my head and cracking my piston. I say over time because it wasn't very common that I approached the 250 mark on the gauge, but it did happen a couple times (never got it into the red).

...

post fix, similar temps and same grade, my temps would top off at about 209 and only stay there briefly. really, 16 degrees can make that big of a difference??????? guess so...

My 2004 has never come close to 250F ever. Over 315,000 miles to date. I'd be more concerned that getting near 250F was the high stress time for your engine.

I have no specific data.

The Aux Electric Fan triggers at 221F engine temperature. Budgets can be tight. Certainly if the electric fan coming on doesn't readily lower the temperature that would be a major red flag for me to need to spend some money.

vic

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My posts in no particular order.
As always, the original post/thread can be accessed by clicking the blue arrow icon within any quote box.

My experience with my 2004 is similar. The hash marks are scaled to 35F each. That means the first hash mark is 215F.

Reading the OEM gauge, with lower ambient temperatures my 2004 runs at 180 fairly consistently. With 75F ambient and above it will run a tick or so above the 180F. ("a tick or so" is very scientific isn't it?) Normally towing my boat gets me up in the mid range between 180 and 215. The only time have seen temperatures approaching the 215F mark is towing when the ambient is above 80F at which time downshifting or a bit of speed reduction brings it back down fairly quickly.

There have been reports of leaves and debris building up between the A/C condenser, charge air cooler and radiator which will reduce cooling efficiency. I would inspect to make certain they haven't been restricted or perhaps flush your cooling system fins with a garden hose. YMMV. vic

The aux. [electric] coolant fan is activated by refrigerant pressures above 290 psi
OR
by coolant temps above 221 degrees F.

Doktor A

Given Andy's data it would seem that my Aux Electric Fan is responding as designed.

I did some basic checks on my viscous clutch unit and it is definitely showing resistance when hot.

215 - 221F is mid-range between 180 (normal for me) and the 250F hot area on the gauge. The thermostatic valve is 195F. Within reason, diesel engines do run a bit more efficiently at higher temperatures. My 215F operation edit: while towing only is basically mid range. The 221F control point of the Aux Electric Fan must be within what MB deems acceptable.

At this time I will monitor operating conditions, but I see no reason to change out my viscous clutch unit.

FWIW. vic

My T1N temperature always hovered near or a tick below 180F (82C) except when towing. Over time I noticed that it no longer was going below 180. I tried cleaning the radiator stack using dish soap and a hose without any dis-assembly. I didn't notice any real improvement. I planned to take the cooling stack apart for cleaning, and still do plan on that.

While returning from a Cleveland regatta we ran into some of the worst and longest rain I have driven in. Had there been a safe place to pull over I would have done so. Since that torrential rain I've noticed that the temperature again will go below the 180 mark. I figure that the rain flushed and moved some debris between the stacks around. As I suspect that it didn't flush it clear I still need to remove that junk.

vic

First. A NAS aka NAFTA 2006 is a 118, 140, or 158 inch wheelbase. 144 showed with the NCV3 models.

I would expect to see a tick below or a tick above 180F most all the time. I only see 215F (the first hash mark above 180F) in hot ambient when towing my trailer and loaded with gear.

In my experience the temperature gauge is not rock steady as are most Detroit iron gauges. If the engine temperature climbs a bit when going up a steep grade, and then returns to normal on the way down I wouldn't worry. That's my normal.

If you are consistently running closer to the 215F mark under normal highway conditions then a radiator stack (cooling matrix) cleaning is probably necessary.

In your case given the inability to maintain temperature in the cold, and consistently being higher during the warm is indication of other problems. That is not to say that you shouldn't still clean the stack.

vic

FWIW. My 2004 T1N has always been OK for heat. The other day I watched things a bit closer to get some timing. About 30 F ambient. A 1/2 mile back street drive to the expressway entrance ramp. About 2 miles to the toll barrier with 55 mph limit. 65 mph limit from there.


Started van @ approx. 7:42 a.m. (drive to the on ramp and tolls)
Temp hit 145 F about 7:48 a.m. (a bit after paying toll)
Temp hit a couple ticks below 180 F about 7:56 a.m. (driving at about 62 mph)
About 8:07 a.m. still just under 180 F. I reduced the cabin blower fan speed and adjusted the vents because it was starting to get a bit hot.

Not very scientific, but gives an idea of how mine works. Same basic results in colder weather. It just takes a little longer to hit the temperature benchmarks.

I think Gears hit on a good thing to check with the jiggle valve. Anything which allows too much coolant to by-pass the stat will keep operating temperatures down. Any by-pass leakage will not affect summer driving temperatures so much.

I also think the 12 minute change out time and $75.00 parts described by Mr. Schmancy is better time spent and cost effective than a visit to the shop for evaluation. I'd try that first. Hope this does some good. AP/vic

Another data point.

I had problems with my Bluetooth interface. Got a call. Pulled into a school lot to answer. Old man in a van. Stranger Danger!!!

Anyway. 23F ambient by my dash. Around town driving had my engine temperature up to around 175F interpreted from my OEM gauge needle. Idled during my 16 minute phone conversation. I didn't touch the throttle the entire time. The gauge fell to about 150F and remained there until I drove off. It didn't get anywhere near the low end 110F mark.

FWIW. vic

Another data point from my 2004 which *appears* to be cooling/heating as to what I would consider normal.

29F ambient. Approx. 65 mph. A sign posted a caution for trucks. 5 mile 5% down grade.

My engine temperature was around 180F at the beginning of the long downhill run. The engine temperature fairly quickly dropped to mid point between 180F and next lower hash mark (145F). I would interpret that midpoint temperature reading as 160F. For the rest of the downhill run the engine temperature never went below that midpoint temperature.

On the climb following the 5 mile/5% the temperature moved to a bit above 180F and then settled back to 180F or a tick lower.

So with my engine, the thermostat was able to maintain the engine temperature at the midpoint below 180F (160F?) even when the engine wasn't producing much power at speed on a very long downhill grade in 29F ambient.

FWIW. vic

I recently towed my sailboat with trailer (approximately 2800# all up) from Niagara Falls to Montreal, QC Canada using my 2004. Earlier this Spring I had separated the cooling stack and cleaned out some leaves and debris.

My highway speeds ranged from 60 - 65 mph using my GPS indicator. Ambient temperatures ranged from 65F - 75F. Boost pressure was usually around 13 - 15 psi with 19 psi not unusual on climbs.

The engine temperature was typically in the 200F range. It did occasionally touch 215F on longer climbs, but didn't exceed that.

As a general rule I don't concern myself with 215F or even a bit higher when towing in hotter ambient temperatures. I don't expect to see 215F very often with a light load when not towing. That said, on long climbs in very hot weather I may see that.

The "normal" operating temperature for a Sprinter will vary. By watching the gauge under different ambient conditions, loads, grades, etc. you will get an idea of your normal. After establishing your vehicle normal, if you notice that your typical engine temperatures begin to range higher it is probably time to clean the stack and check other components.

vic

The Duralast brand [viscous clutch unit] kicks on early.

 

[david_42]

It took me about a year to adjust to seeing the real temperature. However, in 12 years, I've never seen the temperature get over 205F.

 

[HelloPitty]

Thank you AP for the write up.
The day I bought my 2004, I thought the temperature gauge was high, so I quickly did a search here to read up on temps, I very likely found one of your posts about it, so it eased my mind.

 

[220629]

It took me about a year to adjust to seeing the real temperature. However, in 12 years, I've never seen the temperature get over 205F.

I don't see much over that either except when towing my sailboat.

vic

Added:
WATCH YOUR GAUGES.

...

Always of course check the operation of the level sensor.
Many an engine saved by checking that it is working ----have you checked yours recently???
Dennis

Yep. Just today after needing to top off the reservoir.

Noticed a dripping leak 2004. Found a hose clamp which needed to be snugged. The engine was hot so I couldn't check the level. On a mission to move furniture for a recent surgery victim.

Noticed that the temperature gauge was going up above midpoint 180/215F ... just a bit higher than normal. Kept going, but watched the gauge.

This morning added more than a quart of G05. I hope it was the hose leak and nothing else. Wait. No level warning.

Looked at the level sensor. The brown wire was hanging free in the air. After removing the connector I found general corrosion on the pins.

A normal person would source a new connector. I used a greased up 6-32 brass bolt. It threaded/wedged in between the plastic and pin just fine.

View attachment 98642

So yes, check your level sensor. While there, also give it a spritz of WD40 to hold off corrosion.

As to "Normal" engine temperature... watch your gauge.
"Noticed that the temperature gauge was going up above midpoint 180/215F ... " (Above my 2004 "normal".)

If I listened to a MB dealership, anything up to 250F is ok!!! Ok my a$$. Learn what your "normal" is. If I'd have just used the anything below 250F advice the 2004 could be headed to the scrapyard.

vic

...

My opinion.
If operators are using a coolant gauge temperature of 250F as an action point they are taking their chances. If you react at 250F then the engine temperature is likely to get above that by the time your solutions take effect.

I recommend operator intervention (gear down, slow down) before 250F, no matter what engine oil or viscosity is being used, or what a dealership tells you. Maybe 230F as an action point? I have no data except that a properly cooling Sprinter should not be attaining a 250F coolant temperature.

vic

 

[lindenengineering]

Well Guys!
It was a hottish day in Colorado yesterday before the thunderstorms cooled it off.

I was out blasting a new install Jasper engine install in a 2006 Sprinter up the "hill" to Genesse on 1/70! Pedal buried into the floor looking for a stabilized top pipe temp and the welcome Boeing effect !

Already the line up was there on the hard shoulder turn out as we ripped by at 70! About 5 or 6 RV's all steaming! One (a 40ft A class) being lifted up onto the hook by a fancy schmancy 8 leg wrecker ! That's looked expensive!

Then a bit further up I see a pearl white RV style Sprinter window van all shiny and new like (about a 2012 model 906 Indiana lic plate trundling up the slow lane at about 40 mph).

As we passed the driver, a quick glance showed he had his bent down like he was about to be executed!
I said to my venerable assistant reading the spanner 'That bloke has a fixed stare on a scan guage!

As we got to the top with a magnificent view of the Denver Metro test was over all good at 106 Celsius tops and all the fans running.
Then in came the white Sprinter--for a cool off!
Never seen it get that hot before ! said he as a greeting!
I said have you come this way before?
No!
Well it gets steeper from Dumont west the Eisenhower at 10,600 ft-a relentless climb!
Oh I think I will make it--what are you seeing on your scan guage 255 degrees---- its a Mercedes you know!!

As if that gives it magical immunity to the acts of basic schoolboy science!

I made the sign spectacles, testicles, wallet & watch and a Via con Dios bid farewell--- Off to California and the down hill roll from Vial Pass (if you can make it that far) to where the nuts all roll to!

Moral of this true story!
Don't leave it to a sudden incline to realize the rig needs some basic servicing summer is just around the corner ! Like climbing Floyd Hill near Idaho Springs east bound.
Have fun this summer and happy cool Sprintering .
Dennis

 

[sailquik]

Dennis,
Did the guy say what gear he pulled that grade in?
Probably lugging along in 5th Ovedrive when he could have cooled EVERYTHING down by dropping a gear manually to
4th (1:1) or even 3rd and slow down a bit.
Spent the whole day yesterday pulling 5,000 lbs. + with a 7,000 lb. Sprinter across the PA Turnpike.
The mighty little 4 cylinder was running 99% LOD most of the day but the superb 7G-Tronic was downshifting and upshifting
all the time.
Revs from ~ 2400 -3800 it just pulls the ~>12,000 lb. GCVW up the grades.
Never exceeded 215 deg. F coolant temp.
All this on a brand new DPF Mercedes provided under warranty for a cracked top pipe.
These engine are incredible, if you get them up into the rev range where they make some power.
Roger

 

[surlyoldbill]

I was wondering about this just the other day, thanks!

My temps started getting high going South after Hoover dam, it had been awhile since I had gotten much over the regular 180 mark. Only other times I remember where going over the mountain ranges in Death Valley.

 

[dickknapp]

On a road trip a couple of weeks ago to Colorado, had Linden Engineering do preventative maintenance on my Sprinter including the run up the canyon. They replaced the thermostat and viscous coupled fan. What a difference! I knew my fan was working, but it kicked in at varible temps all the way up to maybe 212. And the rig seemed very slow to warm up. Now, after a run through the Columbia River basin at up to 99 deg, I see incredibly stable temps - rarely outside of a range of 188-200 and usually closer to 192-198! Linden also replaced the harmonic balancer and tightened and lock tighted the bolts on backside of high pressure pump fuel pump. I am so pleased!

 

[lindenengineering]

Dennis,
Did the guy say what gear he pulled that grade in?
Probably lugging along in 5th Ovedrive when he could have cooled EVERYTHING down by dropping a gear manually to
4th (1:1) or even 3rd and slow down a bit.
Spent the whole day yesterday pulling 5,000 lbs. + with a 7,000 lb. Sprinter across the PA Turnpike.
The mighty little 4 cylinder was running 99% LOD most of the day but the superb 7G-Tronic was downshifting and upshifting
all the time.
Revs from ~ 2400 -3800 it just pulls the ~>12,000 lb. GCVW up the grades.
Never exceeded 215 deg. F coolant temp.
All this on a brand new DPF Mercedes provided under warranty for a cracked top pipe.
These engine are incredible, if you get them up into the rev range where they make some power.
Roger

Roger
I didn't spend too much time quizzing him!
I could tell he didn't really want to speak to two blue collar dudes in coveralls driving a scabby looking DODGE Sprinter van which my customer got for $2000.

What I will say is that the cooling fan was a buzzing at idle on his rig!
If the thing would have had a pair of wings it would have taken off!

I like the Genessee climb out of the Metro!
I get more business from that topographical wonder especially in the summer time!

For those unfamiliar and to my Brit brethren this is the tops & why I live in Colorado!
The clip picks up in Golden and climbs up to where our Sprinter friend was about to take off!

Arguably better even that the climb up to the St Gottard.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qDgu9Bw3-QA

 

[zen bicycle]

OK, so tagging on to this My normal temp at 95 ambient and going 70 down the highway stays at 215. I just tried the newspaper in the viscous fan trick and it was fairly easy to stop and then turn the fan backwards for a few revolutions before it started turning with the engine.
a few questions
1. is 215 a little warm. I see everybody here mention 195 and below
2. At what temperature does the viscous fan lock up or start operating
3. is being able to stop the fan and spin it backwards at 212 normal, or time to replace?
4. With engine hot and shut off fan hardly spins by hand - maybe a 1/4 turn

 

[220629]

OK, so tagging on to this My normal temp at 95 ambient and going 70 down the highway stays at 215. I just tried the newspaper in the viscous fan trick and it was fairly easy to stop and then turn the fan backwards for a few revolutions before it started turning with the engine.

The action of the viscous clutch depends upon the heat from the radiator stack warming the bi-metal strip. At idle the amount of heat being pushed to the fan clutch may not be enough to warm things even with a hot engine.

a few questions
1. is 215 a little warm. I see everybody here mention 195 and below

if you are not heavily loaded 215F seems a bit high to me.

2. At what temperature does the viscous fan lock up or start operating

I don't know. Refer to my first answer.

3. is being able to stop the fan and spin it backwards at 212 normal, or time to replace?

See my first answer.

4. With engine hot and shut off fan hardly spins by hand - maybe a 1/4 turn

That doesn't seem abnormal.

I would first split the stack, clean the debris between the various radiator units, and then flush with soapy water and a rinse, if that hasn't been done already.

See if that improves things.

vic

 

[zen bicycle]

Thanks, forgot to mention brand new radiator so when I installed it I split the stack and flushed with brand new fluid. Check the thermostat next I guess.

 

[OldWest]

On a 2004 Sprinter camper with fiberglass top (Westfalia) and usual driving weight of everything and everyone at 8200-8300 lbs, the big jet engine noise viscous fan consistently starts when hit the 215 temp gauge divider mark. The temp usually does not climb beyond that mark when the viscous fan is running.

The 215 mark is easily hit whenever going uphill. Otherwise, freeway speed 55-65 mph temps are in the upper half of the white bar (197.5 to 215) and between 180 and 197.5 at lower speeds on flat land.

Takes about 4-5 miles of easy city driving to get from cold to 180 (warmer So. Cal climate).

After a coolant change, I think I noticed more temperature variations within those ranges rather than the temp needle staying at 197.5-215.

When temp drops below the 215 mark, the viscous fan turns off.

Radiator and intercooler are all clean on exterior and no muck in-between.

 

[GaryJ]

These fans must all be a little different. When starting up a long grade on a warm day in my 06 at 7200lbs, the first cycle of the fan will start at about 215 and shut off at about 200. The next cycle will start around 210 and stay on until the temp drops to about 195. The following cycles will all start around 205 and run until about 190. Normal temperature range on the highway is 185-195.

Gary

 

[Paul_E_D]

These fans must all be a little different. When starting up a long grade on a warm day in my 06 at 7200lbs, the first cycle of the fan will start at about 215 and shut off at about 200. The next cycle will start around 210 and stay on until the temp drops to about 195. The following cycles will all start around 205 and run until about 190. Normal temperature range on the highway is 185-195.

Gary

After R&Ring my system with a new tstat, viscous clutch (aftermarket), and fluid this is exactly how my van behaves. It does kick on at lower temps the second and third times. I also see more fluctuation in temps than I did before and I don't think I had ever heard the viscous fan kick in. I'm very happy I did all this work as I'm going to be towing in the mountains a lot this summer.

 

[220629]

These fans must all be a little different. ...

Gary

I agree with that observation.

It is not like they are an electronic sensing circuit with a calibrated setpoint. The mechanical bi-metal sensing unit and fluid drive must have some range of response inherent in the design.

The fans on my 2004 and 2006 rarely howl as some others here have reported. The noise does change a bit though. So far my engine temperatures seem to stay within range even while towing so at this point I'm not jumping to replacing parts.

If I were having problems with my engine not coming up to temperature I would be looking to the thermostat.

My response to higher engine temperatures would be:

Check for proper coolant level and type - HOAT G05. (I don't know if proper coolant type affects the heat transfer, but why run the wrong stuff?)

Check serpentine belt condition.

Check and clean between the radiator stacks and then clean/spray with dish soap followed by water spray flush.

Check proper tensioner operation or replace tensioner if old.

If there is no improvement from the above my next move would be to replace the viscous fan unit.

Failing the above to correct I would then check the thermostat (not fully opening?), radiator (corrosion/restricted?) and cooling pump (restricted flow/shaft slip/worn vanes?).

A thermostat can easily be tested for proper opening using a hot bath of water in a pan. That is an accepted test method during manufacturing quality control. The Sprinter stat should be tested as an assembly in the housing or the actuator plunger can unseat.

vic

 

[220629]

... I also see more fluctuation in temps than I did before and I don't think I had ever heard the viscous fan kick in. ...

So you do notice a distinct howl now? If yes, how often and at what temperatures?

What brand of viscous clutch was installed?

vic

 

[Paul_E_D]

I can't remember the brand off the top of my head. Yes I can hear the fan howl now. Immediately noticed a different sound when starting the van from cold too. THe fan howls for like 5 seconds then settle down. It's not as loud seeming while underway because of road noise, but the difference is that the noise increases with RPM. My old unit had not spilled it's guts, but was not working. I was seeing high temps on climbs. Like 235. That is why I decided to replace parts instead of wait and see. The system is clearly working better now.

 

[Paul_E_D]

Oh, and I hear it exactly at the temps noted by Gary. kicks on first time at 215, then a little sooner then next time.

 

[220629]

I listened to my 2006 a bit closer today. The engine runs a bit over 180F most of the time. Maybe around 200F. My 2004 runs a bit under 180F most of the time, except when I'm towing.

The 2004 radiator stack has been cleaned and flushed. I plan to do that to the 2006, but haven't cleaned anything as of yet.

The 2006 main fan does howl a bit more on takeoff than my 2004. When the engine temperature is closer to 180F the 2006 fan noise is more like what I hear from my 2004.

Pretty vague and subjective, but it seems that the fans on both of my trucks are fairly quiet until they get into the 200F range or so.

vic