UPDATE: No Start: Key Turns, only 'one-click' under dash relay M

benpegg

New member
Hi all,

2007 NCV3 Dodge Sprinter
180a alternator
Factory installed Auxiliary battery.
2x 6 month Exide AGM Batteries.

Most Recent trip: 5-18-2016
2500 mile FL to MA.

CODES:
MD802 Autel code
2267-1 Stored & Current
N1 4/3 (Glow output stage)
-Communication Fault

MAINTENENCE RECORD:
New Bosch Starter: 1 month ago I installed a brand new starter after having the same condition I'm experiencing now. With the help of all of you at sprinter-forums I was able to confirm that the starter was the likely suspect. A bench test proved that to be correct. I replaced it and I drove without issue from FL to MA— starting and stoping many times. When I arrived in Belchertown MA, I parked for the night and when I went to start the next day nearly the same conditions occurred.

Y-Cable (6th Revision): Installed today: The second contender for this non-start condition was the Y-Cable revision from 2009 which had been replaced once already. I measured the voltage drop 13.1v at the battery & 12.6v at the starter recording -.5 which is borderline according to all of the information shared between us. Replacing this has not made any change.

Glow plug Control Module: Because of code 2267-1 on the Autel I purchased a glow plug module with my y-cable to A/B against the one in there. The glow plug code 2267-1 occurs regardless of the new module. (This seemed a good idea to save time if the Y-Cable did not fix the problem)

No-start condition:
1. Turn Key and wait for glow plug light to turn off.
2. Turn Key 1-click from relay M.
3. within 3 seconds Glow plug light returns
4. upon Second start attempt:
5. Glow plug light never shuts off.


Diagnostics & Notes of intrigue:
1. Battery Voltage at rest 13.2
2. After a night of leaving things plugged into the 12v power supply I wasn't able to start 12.6v at battery. I put a trickle charger on, and once the battery was charged it started up perfectly. (This lead me to believe that the Y-Cable was at fault) when I wasn't able to start at 13.2v when I arrived in Belchertown.
3. Relays under driver seat get warm if the key is held in the start position. Is this normal?
4. Y-cable wire lug to Alternator was corroded and chaffed near the end.


Previous Post:
Hi All,
2007 NCV3 Dodge Sprinter
180a alternator
Factory installed Auxiliary battery.
2x 6 month Exide AGM Batteries.
Recent 25,000 mile trip FL to NM and back with no problems.

Ultra gage CODES:
U0101 –Lost Communication with TCM
U0423 – Invalid Data Reiceved From Instrument Panel Cluster Control Module
U0416 – Invalid Data Received From Vehicle Dynamics Control Module
U0103 – Lost Communication With Shift Control Module “A”
U110B - Lost Engine Collant Message


No start condition:
Insert key and wait for glow plug light to shut off.
Turn key to on position:
Result:
1-click from the Motor relay under the dash. Car won’t start.

Diagnostics:
Reset ECM disconecting negative battery terminal for 30 minutes until the clock reset.

Normal Battery voltage 12.8v
Normal Voltage drop to 11.8-12.6 during glowplugs and start procedure.
<.02 voltage drops across wires to starter, alternator ETC.

TCM cable housing bone dry at both ends (serviced with electronics cleaner and reattathced. (the transmission was serviced 2-years ago and the cable housing was replaced then)

Engine Ground Cable caked with dirt corrotion and grime. Cable removed, and treated with electronics cleaner and brushed to sparkle again; then reinstalled.

Y-Cable inspection, and and inspected for chaefing: no corossion or visible wear.

Last Trip History & additional notes:
Last month I went on a short trip and had an overheating scare 90 miles out. To be Safe I called a tow truck and a flatbed took me home. (It turned out that the Engine Coolant temperature sensorr, located under the turbo inlet pipe top Driver side of the motor was physically broken, a previous owner zip tied back together, most likely after trying to remove it, it was strongly adhered with corrosion).

That evening when the tow truck dropped me off, we started the van and parked it with no problems.

Several days later I could not successfully start the van.

NOTES:
Before the tow truck arrived that evening, I read that there was a relationship to the coolant sensor and the washer fluid sensor, so I toppedoff the washer fluid to see if it would effect the overheating alarm. It did effect the coolant temperature light, but A subsequent leak in the resiviour Filled the Frame with muck and grime over the following week and severely corroded the engine/frame ground connection preceding this no-start problem (as I mentioned above, this has been scrubbed spotless, and reinstalled).

When the Driver unhooked the van, a loud pop was heard when he disengaged theparking gear before backing it down. (again it did start successfully and went changed gears successfully that night during parking procedure).

During a trip a month earlier, I stalled at a toll both and noticed that when Pressed the fuse box with my foot it started itself back up again.
(this coorelates with similar experiences found in the thread). I’m not sure if that would be consistent with engine codes above or how to more thouroly test the fuse box itself (perhaps someone has a good test for me)

I have been following the extensive guide below:

https://groups.yahoo.com/neo/groups/View-Navion/files/Chassis Service Tips/

As well as consulting threads with strong similarities such as:

https://sprinter-source.com/forums/showthread.php?t=43936

https://sprinter-source.com/forums/showthread.php?p=413582

where Smiller Said:
“Do you hear a relay click when you turn the key to the start position? If so, when you try to start again (without turning the key off) does it click again or do you hear nothing on subsequent attempts?”


^ I’d love to know what he where that would have gone, but in that thread something else turned out to fix the issue before that was answered.

Thank You,
Ben
 

benpegg

New member
Hi all,

CODES:
MD802 Autel code
2267-1 Stored & Current
N1 4/3 (Glow output stage)
-Communication Fault

Diagnostics & Notes of intrigue:
4. Y-cable wire lug to Alternator was corroded and chaffed near the end.

Previous Post:
After replacing the ground strap engine to frame harness, (disliking the resistance between it and the negative battery terminal) I was able to start the van. The code listed above was gone, but two new codes appeared which I am unable to clear off:

2953-1 Stored
B90/3 (Right EKAS end position measurement sensor -The valve is closed. Readout is too large

2952-1 Stored
B90/2 (Left EKAS end position measurement sensor) - The valve is closed. Readout is too large

I'm concerned that if I leave from where I am, I may continue to have starting troubles on the road back to FL. If this someone has a lightbulb go off, fill me in. At the least I'll keep this thread updated for anybody in the future for people with no-start electrical gremlins.

maintenance performed to start:
1. Replaced ground strap with 2 gauge insulated wire.
2. Inspected fuses to find some hazy oxidized contacts. (None that were related to the starter) I replaced all of them with new fuses.
 

benpegg

New member
No Starting troubles since the hazy fuses were replaced:

Additional Notes for future people suffering from this:

1. Autel Scanner throws a lot of codes related to "Open Circuts" in wiring: door & cabin lighting, parking lights, third break lamp, AC. about 40% of the time when I do a scan, I see open circuit faults.
2. When going down the highway I'll get a license plate light error on the dash: then it will go into limp mode, code scan will show an issue with the swirl valve. When I restart the license plate light works and so do the swirl valves.

** Keep in mind the notes above are after a new Y-Cable, new starter, and new ground strap. The starter allowed me to start with fully charged batteries, and a serviced ground strap. However because of higher resistance I required nearly perfect conditions. replacing the Y-Cable and ground are then an alternator saver— it won't have to work as hard to bring the battery voltage up, in turn, the batteries don't need to be topped off to start the van. Finally, fuses were the last annoying bug in my van. I tested all the fuses and established continuity, however some of them that had a subtle haze/film on them. Only after replacing all of them with new fuses, have I eliminated intermittent one-click no starts when voltage is adequate but it still would not start on the first attempt.

Hope this is helpful somehow
 

irvingj

2015 RT SS Agile (3.0L)
Reminds me of checking switches/relays in a juke box (previous lifetime). Many times they'd check out just fine using an ohmmeter, but I was cautioned that, under load, they might behave very differently. Moral: check under load, not just a continuity check. Caught quite a number of problems that way, always remembered that lesson.
 
No Starting troubles since the hazy fuses were replaced:

Additional Notes for future people suffering from this:

1. Autel Scanner throws a lot of codes related to "Open Circuts" in wiring: door & cabin lighting, parking lights, third break lamp, AC. about 40% of the time when I do a scan, I see open circuit faults.
2. When going down the highway I'll get a license plate light error on the dash: then it will go into limp mode, code scan will show an issue with the swirl valve. When I restart the license plate light works and so do the swirl valves.

** Keep in mind the notes above are after a new Y-Cable, new starter, and new ground strap. The starter allowed me to start with fully charged batteries, and a serviced ground strap. However because of higher resistance I required nearly perfect conditions. replacing the Y-Cable and ground are then an alternator saver— it won't have to work as hard to bring the battery voltage up, in turn, the batteries don't need to be topped off to start the van. Finally, fuses were the last annoying bug in my van. I tested all the fuses and established continuity, however some of them that had a subtle haze/film on them. Only after replacing all of them with new fuses, have I eliminated intermittent one-click no starts when voltage is adequate but it still would not start on the first attempt.

Hope this is helpful somehow
Thanks for sharing this information. I know it's an old thread.. But I have the exact same car and problems, did changing the Y cable solve the glow plug module code and so also the function of the glow plugs? I changed ground strap so far and measured voltage drop in y cable to 0.4v so I will order a new. Might even try a new battery, it's very hard to start right now even in a warm workshop.
 

bcislander

'07 Mercedes-badged Dodge
The original GP Controller installed on early NCV3s is failing in many cases, causing GP faults and erratic GP light behaviour.

The links below show the 'old' vs new GP Controller and how to change the controller, if you still have the old GP controller in your van:



 

showkey

Well-known member
For those new to these topics and maybe stranded looking for help.
Time for review of prior posts on no start vs no crank:

“To clarify, when you say 'the dash light doesn't come on' are you referring to only the glow plug light and everything else looks normal? And by 'doesn't start', do you mean cranks but won't start or doesn't crank at all? From your description alone it's not at all clear whether your problem has anything to do with the glow plugs.”

If the engine won't even crank then your problem is not the glow plugs. And the OP has yet to provide the details of his no-start problem either.

“Now I return us to the feeding frenzy already in progress...”


The above quotes are from the last link in post #6. Its critical to understand the issue before going down the rabbit hole.
 

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