Shuts down immediately on start

sprintguy

16+ yrs Master Commercial technician
Agree, thus my question if it is possible that there is a code not readable by my OB reader, and if so would any garage full scope tool see such, or would it have to be a MB dealer specifically(proprietary codes??).

I am still hoping to solve it before resorting to the tow. In searching I found that Aqua Puttana posted some manual info in 2010 for a somewhat similar thing (no start condition). Vic, any chance you have some documentation on the sensors involved in startup/ and or troubleshooting for this kind of start, but shut down condition?
Try this, unplug the MAF meter and try to start the van, if it starts and runs you might need a meter. it's not throwing a code due to the fact that it hasn't run long enough yet. Also check the air inlet into the the filter box for restrictions, the little side vents on the passenger side are a great place for mice nests and what not. I do also agree with checking the exhaust for clogging as well. Try unplugging the MAF meter first

Carl (dealer technician that doesn't gouge)
 

MillionMileSprinter

Formerly Type2Teach
Maybe. If the ECU shuts the engine down because of a faulty sensor, it would stand to reason that it would also record that fault.
So how about this: I can make my Sprinter start and immediately shut down without recording a fault code. By.turning.the.key. I don't mean to sound obnoxious or anything, but I wonder if maybe your ignition wiring is faulty and the "run" position initiates the shut down sequence... Just a thought.
 

lindenengineering

Well-known member
Try this, unplug the MAF meter and try to start the van, if it starts and runs you might need a meter. it's not throwing a code due to the fact that it hasn't run long enough yet. Also check the air inlet into the the filter box for restrictions, the little side vents on the passenger side are a great place for mice nests and what not. I do also agree with checking the exhaust for clogging as well. Try unplugging the MAF meter first

Carl (dealer technician that doesn't gouge)



Carl
Hey!:thumbup:
I don't think that most honest techs or mechanics gouge as you state.
That stated I have met quite a few Jim Scam-more's!:rolleyes: On both sides of the pond!

However in defense of shop charges, shop charge out rates usually reflect overheads and costs plus that dirty word called PROFIT.

To be efficient you need to make an honest profit margin!

I bet if you could nail down your shop GM or an Owner of the dealership you work at, and they were honest with an answer! You would probably find that most likely they would agree there has to be about 17% bare minimum on transactions take home to the coffers to just keep the business system going!
Otherwise its better to keep the money in the bank!

Equally there must be at least a 55% minimum efficiency rating of the repair bays to ensure a profit from you guys in the thick of it with the wrench sets and spanners & scanners!

Have you ever asked your Service Manager or GM what is the effy rating of the shop & repair bays?

Recently I scudded into one of my MB dealers and suppliers of legit MB parts. ( I do about $3000/day in parts business with them.) I ran into their GM at the door, so we passed the time of day while I could see someone interviewing some of the LR tech I know from a nearby LR dealership!
Having got into efficiency ratings discussion I easily confessed mine is 48% and needs to be improved! Then I got 46% "here" and that's why we need more techs it must be 55% --Best of luck with that mate! Poaching techs from nearby dealers. Shame on you!:lol:

Guys any of you reading this will see that there is a whole other dimension to fixing & flogging cars (vehicles). (Dealership or Independent)
That's why I have the pretty one in the back office (the Lynn in Linden ) doing the books and a very pleasant younger lady Brianna at the front desk as the service writer--a trained auto tech by the way!

With one year left on my shop mortgage I was asked you 'll be 70 then are you going to hang up your spurs --Heck no I am going to open another shop! Just got going!
Maybe something exotic like Lambos Maseratis Rollers or then maybe not!
Something down right common and flat rate profit inclined like a Chrysler, Chevy or Ford!
The again Monster Homes, big profit makers!:thumbup:
I have just changed out a set of batteries Sprinter guys @ $1250 the lot and you moan about a 93H series at $230 installed on a 906!
Its all relative :thumbup:
Dennis
Trans Atlantic Mechanic!:smilewink:
 

billjcdn

New member
Some progress! Thank you Sprintguy for the MAF meter unplug test!! Indeed when I unplug it the engine starts and runs just fine (I even drove it around the yard). If I plug it back in the engine stops. I tried a few times and consistent/repeatable. I had another look in the air filter box and all seems fine. Tomorrow in the light I will investigate the air inlet and side vents etc. I also did the same start and run testing with the air box cover off the box by about 2" - to ensure it had no problem getting air. It still does the exact behavior (stalls on plugging in the MAF meter). Thus I am thinking a plugged inlet would not be the culprit Am I incorrect ?

Now I need to determine if the MAF sensor has failed, or was this just a way to have the ecu reset in some kind of base mode. Any suggestions how to test further? It looks like Europarts (Stev in SD) sells a OEM Bosch for $177. Tomorrow I will check my local Dodge and MB dealers and NAPA. However, before I jump to the conclusion the MAF sensor has failed, anything more to test? (Obviously I will have a good look at the connector in the am)
 

surlyoldbill

Active member
MAF shopping: yes get the Bosch. I bought the cheap $50 generic "fits your vehicle" and it didn't work. I found a Bosch for about $100 online and it's been going like a champ for years.

The ECU takes info from the MAF and EGR and compares them as per air flow, and if something is way off throws a code or goes into LHM, not aware that it would shut the engine down. It sounds like you just need a new MAF.
 

Ciprian

Spark Plugs not allowed!
Hmm, once I tried to start the engine with the big hose right at the intake manifold disconnected. It did exactly what you describe. My money is on the MAF.

Sent from my SM-G900P using Tapatalk
 

surlyoldbill

Active member
Big congrats to SprintGuy for solving the puzzle! (until new MAF installed we won't know for sure...but it's likely)
Also, anything from Europarts SD is going to be spot-on, no guessing or worries about quality. And they ship fast.
 

billjcdn

New member
I did a bit of research for an MAF. Yes Europarts ($172US) was one of the best US based for Bosch. Since I am in Canada, shippping/duty etc does add a bit of cost and time delay so I also looked locally.


Locally I can get Eckland ??($200 CAn) Cardel $500 Cdn), OEM from Dodge $800:), BWD 59103 for $240 (Cdn) but no source for Bosch. The BWD interested me as the supplied said it was Borg Warner ad they sell lots of them, good quality blah blah. However in internet search it seems that BWD is not Borg Warner so I am leery of that. So unless someone confirms that new BWD 59103 is good quality, up there with Bosch, I will have to pursue having a Bosch shipped up from your fine country. I definitely will report back on results and figure out a concise way to give this symptom/solution into the forum's database for future members. Hopefully I can connect with Sprintguy by email so I can transfer him a small thank you.
 

billjcdn

New member
I did a bit of research for an MAF. Yes Europarts ($172US) was one of the best US based for Bosch. Since I am in Canada, shippping/duty etc does add a bit of cost and time delay so I also looked locally.


Locally I can get Eckland ??($200 CAn) Cardel $500 Cdn), OEM from Dodge $800:), BWD 59103 for $240 (Cdn) but no source for Bosch. The BWD interested me as the supplied said it was Borg Warner ad they sell lots of them, good quality blah blah. However in internet search it seems that BWD is not Borg Warner so I am leery of that. So unless someone confirms that new BWD 59103 is good quality, up there with Bosch, I will have to pursue having a Bosch shipped up from your fine country. I definitely will report back on results and figure out a concise way to give this symptom/solution into the forum's database for future members. Hopefully I can connect with Sprintguy by email so I can transfer him a small thank you.
 

sprintguy

16+ yrs Master Commercial technician
Remove the MAF connector using a volt / ohm meter set it to volts (10 volt scale) with the key on test from pin #1 at the MAF connector to pin #2 reading should be 12 volts and or battery voltage. Then with the key still on test from pin #2 (ground lead) to pin # 3 (red lead) should be 5.0 volts give or take a couple tenths of a volt. Then test from pin #4 (red lead) to pin #2 (ground lead ) with key on should be 5 volts give or take a couple tenths. Note that pin #1 is the 87 circuit (switched ignition from a relay) Pin #2 is sensor ground (clean from Controller) #3 is 5 volt reference for the intake air temp and #4 is 5 volt reference for MAF meter. What probably is happening is that the meter is shorted internally causing the circuit 87 to be pulled down to ground with everything else that is connected to that 87 circuit (which is a lot) that too can be tested , plug in the MAF and gently back probe the connector at pin #1 (red lead) then connect to battery ground (blabk lead) leave the meter on the volts setting and try to start the vehicle, if the voltage drops right to zero you most likely found the culprit. Now if you want to be fancy you can back probe pin #2 and pin #4 and using an oscilloscope set to max of 10 volts and time of aprox 2.5 milli seconds you should have a digital square wave with an approximately 50% duty cycle. key on MAF plugged in


Carl
P.S. hey Dennis :thumbup: :cheers: back at ya
 

surlyoldbill

Active member
web search for "2004 sprinter MAF Bosch" provided many results, the cheapest being $107 free shipping no tax. Ebay and regular haunts seem to have gone up, with $190 being the low and $250-375 being the most common price.
 

Aqua Puttana

Poly - Thread Finder
Hmm, once I tried to start the engine with the big hose right at the intake manifold disconnected. It did exactly what you describe. My money is on the MAF.

Sent from my SM-G900P using Tapatalk
If the MAF sensor tests aren't conclusive another thing to check is the hose from the air filter box to the turbo intake. If that path is compromised it can cause similar symptoms to what have been discussed.

vic
 

Ciprian

Spark Plugs not allowed!
Just thought about this a bit more. How about if you have a major bust in the intake plumbing? One of the hoses, or even the intercooler? Is it possible that the maf is good but just doesn't see any air moving past it and shuts down the engine. When you disconnect the maf, it knows that the maf is not there so instead it supplies a predefined signal so the engine would run, but probably in the lhm.

I would double and triple check all the plumbing between the air filter and the intake manifold.

Sent from my SM-G900P using Tapatalk
 

Aqua Puttana

Poly - Thread Finder
Just thought about this a bit more. How about if you have a major bust in the intake plumbing? One of the hoses, or even the intercooler? Is it possible that the maf is good but just doesn't see any air moving past it and shuts down the engine. When you disconnect the maf, it knows that the maf is not there so instead it supplies a predefined signal so the engine would run, but probably in the lhm.

I would double and triple check all the plumbing between the air filter and the intake manifold.

Sent from my SM-G900P using Tapatalk
I agree that the computer(s) monitor the air flow and compare to expected values. When things aren't as expected the ECM intervenes.

By history here we know that leaks in the pressure side after the turbo can set LHM. To my knowledge leaks after the turbo don't cause shutdown after starting.

As I mentioned earlier, I would concentrate on the air system from the air filter box to the turbo intake. Leaks there can cause odd problems. If my memory is correct T1N engines can have the start and then die symptom, or even no start. NCV3 V6 engines will start and run, but have no power above idle.

:2cents: vic
 

billjcdn

New member
Sorry for long delay in reporting back. Shipping to Canada takes a bit longer etc. Problem Resolved!! Yes a new MAF sensor solved the problem. Thanks again to everyone, especially Sprintguy!
 

surlyoldbill

Active member
Excellent!

Diagnosis seems to be the most difficult part about repairing a T1N. Most of the parts that cause LHM, stalling, no start, etc. just bolt on in less than 30 minutes.
 

icarus

Well-known member
Not having read the whole thread, but in the off chance this is something new to you all, I just talked to a friend of mine who runs a shop and has a Sprinter, he had the same problem, and noticed with a simple on board scan gauge that right after starting, the voltage dropped to low to power the ECM due to a wiring fault.

Perhaps this helps, but you might check the voltage RIGHT after starting.

Icarus
 

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