DIY Fix/Service for Swirl Valves

Aqua Puttana

Poly - Thread Finder
Thanks goes to Todd.Niles. :thumbup:

Sounds like it takes a bit of dedication to the task. Maybe a good P.M. procedure every oil change?

2008 Dodge Sprinter 2500, turbo 6, 112,000 miles

Fixed stuck swirl valves by injecting 90%diesel/10%Sea Foam Detergent into turbo intake, while driving. Inject through a squirt bottle (on dash board), fuel hose run through the firewall, and needle valve (normally for inflating basketballs) into black air intake hose just before the turbo. Squirt about one table spoon every five miles while driving for six weeks.

In the mean time, manually un-jam the swirl valve's by grabbing the linkage with a long metal hook, gently rocking free. Manually exercise valves full through, then insert key and start engine. (You may have to warm the engine first to loosen the sludge in the intake manifolds.) Van will run in normal mode (not limp mode) and after a few days, the check engine light will shut off. YOU WILL HAVE TO MANUALLY UN-JAM THE SWIRL VALVES A FEW TIMES BEFORE THE DIESEL/SEA FOAM SOLUTION BEGINS TO WORK. Then it is just an occasional squirt every 100 miles or so the rest of the life of the van. THERE IS NO NEED TO REPLACE YOUR INTAKE MANIFOLDS. Dodge diesel mechanic says this will not do any damage to your Sprinter. It worked on my Sprinter.

Todd from Wisconsin, USA
Some other information.
https://sprinter-source.com/forums/showthread.php?p=504996
 
Last edited:

smiller

2008 View J (2007 NCV3 3500)
He has a 2008, my recommended procedure would be:

1. Install GDE tune.
2. Never think about it again.

:smilewink:
 

Old Crows

Calypso 2014 View Profile
Clever fix! I like. Maybe using something like the Liqui-Moly induction cleaner periodically would be a hot tip?

Still thinking that the issue is really crap fuels and wrong oils vs crappy design. Although crappy design may be an enabler.....
 

Charlie

2008 2500 170 Diesel
I posted this over on the Green Diesel thread but have had no responses.

----------
Yet another owner with a swirl valve problem. A GDE tune is now on my short list of possible solutions, but I have a couple questions. I have read this entire thread!!!

Just limped back in my 2008 (with 35K miles) from a 9 day trip that started with a CEL and a 2513-1 code as reported by my Autel MD802. While test driving at home, I have also seen 2953-1 and 2952-1, which indicate swirl valves stuck CLOSED, but those codes cleared and have not returned (yet). The 2513 code remains. Just in case, I pulled and cleaned the EGR valve - it was dirty but not sticking.

From what Kieth said on another thread, the tune should fix this EXCEPT for the case of swirl valves stuck closed. I also understand they have made some recent changes to keep swirl valve diagnostic routines from throwing codes after the tune.

My first question is: Has anyone with swirl valve problems installed the tune and NOT cured the problem?

Second question: Even though the tune will cause the engine software to ignore swirl valve problems, is it possible that a still active diagnostic routine could leave the valves stuck CLOSED, causing a physical problem that the software cannot overcome?

I would really like to avoid a $3k repair (that doesn't actually cure the problem). A permanent fix for $600 versus a temporary one for $3000 seems like an easy call, but only if it works.
----------

Another question: How much disassembly, if any, is required to access the swirl valve linkage? I have removed the air filter housing and engine cover so far, but it is not obvious. The full process of removing the manifolds is beyond my comfort zone.
 
Last edited:

smiller

2008 View J (2007 NCV3 3500)
My understanding is that the swirl valves are spring loaded to the open position and almost always stick open, not closed. I have never heard of a confirmed case of them sticking closed but like you would like to hear about it if it exists.
 

showkey

Well-known member
I too am not concerned with swirl valve problems. If it works it a great alternative to a very expensive complex repair. First priority is do no harm to other components.

A few concerns or questions on the "flush fix"...........these are for thought or discussion I do not have the answers nor is the complaint or condemning the process.


Are there any adverse effects from pushing fuel and solvent through the turbo ? Turbo bearing ?
Its a long way to the intake.........fuel and solvent filling or getting trapped the intercooler ?
If that fuel is later pushed through could it cause a run away ?
Regular rich mixture could harm the CAT ?
Regular raw fuel and solvent induced causing cylinder washing ? Fuel/solvent diluting the crank case oil ? DPF regen causes both of these issues over time and regen is only done at about 700 miles intervals. During regen there is a relative small amount of extra fuel pushed through the intake system.
 

lindenengineering

Well-known member
I think i just need to mention that we don't do a huge amount of these repair activities that being about one per month.
Yes carbon on the butterflies can cause a lack of linkage sweep and that results in a CEL being flagged.

These failures I see in excess 150,000 and once the manifolds have been taken off/or fully expose wear on the linkage not akin to a three man sculling action is evident.
In situations such as these since the linkage is not serviceable then new manifolds are specified. In most cases the inlet tracts are not heavily carbonized if the vehicle has been maintained properly as you might think or glean from these forums.
This type of repair I would not want to do frequently as an owner and I certainly don't want to be doing this as a come back 6 months down the road.
So installing some new stuff on the engine will keep it purring for another 150,000 miles or so good maintenance willing!
Now for many that equates to about 10 years of service maybe five for hard drivers.
That means about $600/year or about six reasonably prices dinners for you and the missus at an Olive Garden enjoyed with a bottle of wine.
In that perspective its a cheap job but I can understand why jollification costs are preferable to that of vehicle maintenance especially if its a pleasure and personal use van.
Dennis
 

jackpinesavag

New member
If and when the linkages are stuck with the valves closed and replacing the manifolds is the last course of repair, wouldnt it also be possible to remove the buterfly valves and shafts and plug the holes. Then use the green diesel tune ? rid of the valves and not buy new manifolds that will end up having the same problems.
 

BBlessing

61k happy miles
I too am not concerned with swirl valve problems. If it works it a great alternative to a very expensive complex repair. First priority is do no harm to other components.

A few concerns or questions on the "flush fix"...........these are for thought or discussion I do not have the answers nor is the complaint or condemning the process.


Are there any adverse effects from pushing fuel and solvent through the turbo ? Turbo bearing ?
Its a long way to the intake.........fuel and solvent filling or getting trapped the intercooler ?
If that fuel is later pushed through could it cause a run away ?
Regular rich mixture could harm the CAT ?
Regular raw fuel and solvent induced causing cylinder washing ? Fuel/solvent diluting the crank case oil ? DPF regen causes both of these issues over time and regen is only done at about 700 miles intervals. During regen there is a relative small amount of extra fuel pushed through the intake system.
those are all relevant concerns. but only time will tell the answers to those questions.

bb
 

Trayscott

Member
I have a GDE tune and the way I understand it, the egr and swirl valves are still used for DPF regen so they do have to work
 

smiller

2008 View J (2007 NCV3 3500)
I have a GDE tune and the way I understand it, the egr and swirl valves are still used for DPF regen so they do have to work
From what I can tell the GDE tune commands desired EGR and EKAS levels to zero under normal driving conditions but does not disable the systems entirely. With an MD802 scanner I can view live data that clearly indicates the EGR and swirl valves operating momentarily during idle overrun when stationary (I have never seen them operate at any road speed however so they seem to be turned off for all practical purposes.) I'm not sure why they operate at all, perhaps it is part of the cleaning regimen. From another recent thread it was noted that EGR seems to be turned off during regeneration (which would make sense) and I don't see how the EKAS system would be used during the regeneration process.
 

smiller

2008 View J (2007 NCV3 3500)
From what I can tell the GDE tune commands desired EGR and EKAS levels to zero under normal driving conditions but does not disable the systems entirely. With an MD802 scanner I can view live data that clearly indicates the EGR and swirl valves operating momentarily during idle overrun when stationary (I have never seen them operate at any road speed however so they seem to be turned off for all practical purposes.)
I have to correct myself, I just did another road test and while the EGR duty cycle remains at zero during normal operation the EKAS/swirl valve system seems to be operating normally(?) The MD802 can display two relevant parameters, swirl valve actuator duty cycle and also indicate when the swirl valves are on their fully open stops. Post-tune I can clearly see the swirl valves operating, closing at low engine rpm/loads (up to 80% duty cycle, valves off their stops) and fully opening when the load increases (5% duty cycle, valves at full open position) - i.e. the system seems to be working normally.

I guess this isn't a problem, perhaps even beneficial, just as long as the EKAS system will not generate codes should the system ever fail. But I wonder if this is intended operation? Just out of curiosity I'll send a note to GDE to check.
 

smiller

2008 View J (2007 NCV3 3500)
Contortionists have devised tools and methods to make certain types of repairs on the vehicle but it sure looks like it would be an exercise in frustration.
 

SprinterHelp

2005 Dudge Sprinter 144
Got actuator replacement down to one hour actual wrenching, 40 to remove filter turbo outlet tube etc and remove actuator. Ten minutes per clip (2) other two go on before installing, to reinstall and then whatever to zip up what was removed to get to it.

Setting up clips so they dont fall off and tricks to get it back in took an hour sitting in a chair.... dont consider stress (work)

2007 nvc
 
Last edited:

Top Bottom