Turbo Resonator Removal and Comparison

3

312 diesel (closed)

Guest
Does this part actually do anything useful? Can it not just be replaced with a piece of silicone turbo hose and eliminate a potential source of failure?
 

KL2BE

New member
Does this part actually do anything useful? Can it not just be replaced with a piece of silicone turbo hose and eliminate a potential source of failure?
You may very well get another opinion (imagine different opinions of the same Forum) :idunno: , but I have read just about all the postings on all the Forums and I have conclude that the Turbo Resonator does nothing useful. Indeed the Riordan resonator replacement is merely an aluminum tube machined to fit in place of the OEM deice. A piece of the right kind of hose would no doubt work about as well, however, the Riordan aluminum-tube replacement is nifty because it has a support bracket built in at exactly the right place. Trouble is, it cost around $100 :eek: .
The device was seemingly intended to eliminate Turbo whine although many of those who have replaced theirs with the straight through aluminum tube have reported little or no detectable difference in cabin sound (postings vary a bit on this but many, if not most, have not noticed any objectionable noise).
Some have suggested a theory that the TR affects intake temperature and that by-passing it could cause a problem :hmmm: .
I don't buy that :2cents: ; there is an inter-cooler that well handles the intake air temp and the I-5 engine did not even have a TR before '04 :popcorn: .
BTW, why don't you get a new Q-5 TR from the Dealer for free and get a littel revenge on DC :smirk: ?
I bought a new Q-5 unit from a local Dealer for $55. After removing the Q-4 from my van I cleaned it up and wiped it with vinyl preservative until it looked like new. I returned it the next day for a full refund. I simply handed them (1) the Q-4 unit, (2) my receipt and (3) a copy of the Daimler-Chrysler (DC) internal "recall" of Q-4 TRs that I found and copied from this Forum. https://sprinter-source.com/forums/showpost.php?p=13401&postcount=16
The internal recall notice directs parts managers to return all Q-4 and earlier TRs to the "facing depot (PDC)" for a refund.
Carefully choosing my words so as not to misrepresent anything I said: "I'd like a refund on this Q-4 Turbo Resonator. As I am sure your Service Department will tell you, they have a high failure rate. I got a copy of this internal recall notice off the Internet (handing him at this point a copy of the DC Notice on which I had highlighted in YELLOW the provisions that read "Please return all parts showing Q-4 or lower...." . I'm sure you can verify this June 29, 2007 memo on your computer." The counter person went to his computer for about 3 minutes and then said "Your right, these are supposed to be sent back, take this receipt to the cashier for your credit". :cheers:
"You'll send this back and get credited?" I asked, not wanting to put him in a bind. "Yes", he replied. :thumbup:
Now, why doesn't the Dealer just give you a new Q-5 across the counter and be done with it? :yell: I guess they just don't respect their customers; it's why Chrysler is in Banckrupsty and MB is losing ground to Toyota and Honda in their long cultivated Luxury-Car market in North America. :tongue:.
The Internet may revolutionize consumer rights since we can now talk to each other and expose Manufacturer's abuses. :thumbup:
 

BULBASOR

Active member
The pressure in the resonator is too high for duct tape or any other tape to hold (25 to 35 PSI and higher).

The reason I would not re-glue or JB weld a resonator is because there is a chance that pieces of the JB weld or glue could get into the system when you back off the gas and I asbolutly would avoid tiny metal parts like screws being inserted anywhere near a turbo intake.

I talked to Claudio the Sprinter tech about this years ago and he said carry a spare resonator OR use a straight alum pipe - (with no parts that can come off like the Riordon Eliminator). I had Claudio inspect the Riorden Eliminator carfully before he gave it his approval to be used on BULBASOR.

I am right now running the Q5 because I have just been too lazy to put the straight pipe back on after Claudio replaced my Q4. It ain't broke, so I guess I'll just leave it onthere for now. :snore:
 

BaywoodBill

pre-Yuppiedom
As KL2BE says, "you may get a different opinion."

The factory resonator performs at least two functions: 1. it acts as a plenum to smooth out possible pulsations in the airflow from the turbo and 2. it's a muffler.

We've had the aluminum replacement for about 2 years. We think sometimes to re-install the resonator (the Q4 that replaced the one that failed) but we don't.

I've wondered if a high-temp duct tape wrap would help a plastic resonator.

I believe a silicone hose would not stay in place.
 

BULBASOR

Active member
I am content with the Q% also at this point - but I have the riorden eliminator on board for backup. My MPG has been very very good and getting better on each trip - I kinda hate to do anything that's gonna upset the apple cart. (550 miles on a half tank).

I need to take another long trip to see if I can break the 700 mile record on a tank.
 

rimjaine

rimjaine
The pressure in the resonator is too high for duct tape or any other tape to hold (25 to 35 PSI and higher).

The reason I would not re-glue or JB weld a resonator is because there is a chance that pieces of the JB weld or glue could get into the system when you back off the gas and I asbolutly would avoid tiny metal parts like screws being inserted anywhere near a turbo intake.

I talked to Claudio the Sprinter tech about this years ago and he said carry a spare resonator OR use a straight alum pipe - (with no parts that can come off like the Riordon Eliminator). I had Claudio inspect the Riorden Eliminator carfully before he gave it his approval to be used on BULBASOR.

I am right now running the Q5 because I have just been too lazy to put the straight pipe back on after Claudio replaced my Q4. It ain't broke, so I guess I'll just leave it onthere for now. :snore:
Howdy,
I put all my JB Weld on the outside & more or less just used it to plug or seal the seam all the way around. In other words filled the gap al the way around.
25 or 35 psi doesn't sound right for turbo boost pressure, I read elsewhere that turbo boost is equivalent to 20 inches, I assume that to be above atmospheric, my calculations for an added 20 inches = about 0.72 psi. increase. I'm not an expert on turbo's so very well could be mistaken in my belief.
Later, Jim
 

TimJuhl

Member
1 atmosphere = 14.7 psi = 29.92 inches Hg = 760 mm Hg and so on. 20 inches would be 9.8 psi - I'm no turbo expert either but since 9.8 is below atmospheric pressure I suspect it is figured as added boost over ambient pressure.

I suspect if the internal pressures were really high they wouldn't make the turbo resonator out of plastic. Going with what Bulbasor said, I suspect that the higher the average power you are demanding from the engine the more likelihood of weakening the seal within the resonator.

Tim
 

BULBASOR

Active member
Yeah guys, I really do not know what the type of measurment is on the MAP all i know is that the value is important and I think if you are talking pressure I just assumed PSI but I really don't know because it does not say on the scan guage what MAP is except Manifold Air Pressure.

That could mean anything: I could be like the Richter scale - gets less and less or more and more based on values, who knows? But, if it's an absolute value - then it's DOUBLEING itself every three seconds that your accelerating and I don't know if the starting point is one atmospher or .5 PSI but if it DOUBLES it's getting into some real pressure real fast. I really don't think we are talking about any kind of extreamly dangerous or powerful pressures here because the rubber hose connection to the resonator is after all only a big radiator hose!

How much pressure can a radiator hose take? Quite a lot. Boiling water reaches what PSI??? You can just figure. All I'm saying is that the "radiator" hose, and turbo and Manifold are all very strong compared to the plastic resonator - so it's an easy guess that the resonator was DESIGNED as the 'weak link' in the entire system!

You don't need an engineering degree to figure that out.

The real questions is: Why? and are we defeating another issue by eliminating it?
 
3

312 diesel (closed)

Guest
I simply don't believe the turbo resonator is designed to blow apart. Boost control is easily achieved with an internal or external waste gate. It's not done with a piece of tube that pops apart. I've never measured the boost on a Sprinter, but I'd think it's in the order of 20psi over atmospheric.


Yeah guys, I really do not know what the type of measurment is on the MAP all i know is that the value is important and I think if you are talking pressure I just assumed PSI but I really don't know because it does not say on the scan guage what MAP is except Manifold Air Pressure.

That could mean anything: I could be like the Richter scale - gets less and less or more and more based on values, who knows? But, if it's an absolute value - then it's DOUBLEING itself every three seconds that your accelerating and I don't know if the starting point is one atmospher or .5 PSI but if it DOUBLES it's getting into some real pressure real fast. I really don't think we are talking about any kind of extreamly dangerous or powerful pressures here because the rubber hose connection to the resonator is after all only a big radiator hose!

How much pressure can a radiator hose take? Quite a lot. Boiling water reaches what PSI??? You can just figure. All I'm saying is that the "radiator" hose, and turbo and Manifold are all very strong compared to the plastic resonator - so it's an easy guess that the resonator was DESIGNED as the 'weak link' in the entire system!

You don't need an engineering degree to figure that out.

The real questions is: Why? and are we defeating another issue by eliminating it?
 

BULBASOR

Active member
That's what makes the whole thing so disturbing for so many people in the US. (Why is it there?)

They don't have them on the Austrailian Sprinters, and your 312 does not have one, right?

So why bother?
 
3

312 diesel (closed)

Guest
That's what makes the whole thing so disturbing for so many people in the US. (Why is it there?)

They don't have them on the Austrailian Sprinters, and your 312 does not have one, right?

So why bother?
Nope, the 312 doesn't have one. Looks to me like it's intended as a silencer. Perhaps it is something it was felt was necessary to refine the product? In Europe the Sprinter is hardly ever used as a family vehicle. It is mostly used commercially, or you see them converted into full blown campers or buses. Very rarely would you see a family that owns a panel van with seats privately.

There again rarely do you see one that is automatic here, the odd welfare bus perhaps, but the vast majority are manuals. Wonder if it is related to that?
 
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BULBASOR

Active member
And what about the speed?? The American Sprinter can't go over 84 miles per hour - what's up with that?

Why are these modifications on the American Sprinter?

Is it because all the people over 'there' are commercial drivers and they are using manual tranny?

Some people think that detroit auto executives purposly put in break and wear and tear items into american cars just to force owners back to the dealers for repairs.

In America we don't trust auto executives - we think they are building cars designed to wear out after 100K miles on purpose so your required to buy another one. I notice that all the Japanese cars are like that now too. Nissan and lexus cars are a pile after 100K miles.
 

rimjaine

rimjaine
1 atmosphere = 14.7 psi = 29.92 inches Hg = 760 mm Hg and so on. 20 inches would be 9.8 psi - I'm no turbo expert either but since 9.8 is below atmospheric pressure I suspect it is figured as added boost over ambient pressure.

I suspect if the internal pressures were really high they wouldn't make the turbo resonator out of plastic. Going with what Bulbasor said, I suspect that the higher the average power you are demanding from the engine the more likelihood of weakening the seal within the resonator.

Tim
Howdy Tim,
Thanks for the correction, I used water weight instead of mercury weight, so .72 x 13 = 9.36 psi, I didn't look up the exact specific gravity of mercury, so thats the difference in our calculations.
Jim
 

BaywoodBill

pre-Yuppiedom
The Manifold Air Pressure is usuallly measured (in the non-metric countries) by psi. The scanuage reports psi.

I believe there is not a waste gate in this Sprinter plumbing. Instead, the turbo charger has variable vanes so the boost can be kept at 20 psi or below (though I've seen the boost momentarily exceed 20 psi).

Regardless of whether the Sprinters have resonators in other market, they have them in the US and the purpose of the resonator is two-fold: to muffle the sound and to smooth the air flow.
 

BULBASOR

Active member
people in the US use vans in very curious ways. Often loaded up very heavy and converted to be a motorhome. This is not uncommon in other countries but I think most other countries have a decidedly more refined view of the "van/motorhome" concept as more of a lesson in efficency and resoursefulness as illistrated in the Westfailia and old conversions of Volkswagon bus fame.

This ideal of efficiency and economy was never part of the "American" way to do a 'VAN'.

American Vans were big, gas guzzling TRUCKS with shag carpet and couches and beds with mirrored cielings and all kinds or really stupid stuff that you STILL see today carried over into the multi million dollar CLASS A coach works of Marathon and others (These are strictly "American" phenomenons bred from movie stars and spoiled athletes that really had no idea what it means to live "off the grid" in a van).

In other countries they have large motor homes but they are called "touring couches". The whole thing smacks of luxury and aristocracy on one side of the pond, and wastefull crassness and urbaneness on the other side.

Out there somewhere are the "true believers"

They drive SPRINTERS.


I think the idiots at Chrysler were not using thier brain when they told the Germans "hey! You gotta stop all this turbo whine here and understand that Americans drive with the foot on the floor all the way until they get to where they are going!"

I assume the "Turbo Resonator" was just the German engineers way of dealing with the requirements of the Chrysler executives to "Americanize" the German truck called the 'SPRINTER'.
 

Zman

New member
Has anyone tried fiber-glassing the outside of resonator before it failed. Would this strengthen the joint and keep it from failing? I have an 04 and still on the original resonator.
 

sikwan

06 Tin Can
Ok, so I'm confused...
Which year T1N's have resonator?
Which resonator is bad?
2004-2006 have resonators. Q5 is the latest. I had a Q4 for a long time and it never failed on me. I have a Q5 installed and a Q4 as a spare.

Has anyone tried fiber-glassing the outside of resonator before it failed. Would this strengthen the joint and keep it from failing? I have an 04 and still on the original resonator.
I have not heard of anyone doing it.
 

SewerRatz

Illinois Licensed Plumber
2004-2006 have resonators. Q5 is the latest. I had a Q4 for a long time and it never failed on me. I have a Q5 installed and a Q4 as a spare.



I have not heard of anyone doing it.
Hi there Sikwan, long time no chat.

I changed my Q4 back in 2008 to the Q5 and been trouble free till today. The Q5 just blew apart at its seam. Was wondering if anyone else has had any issues with the Q5 resonator. Also if anyone has a link to the alternate replacement made out of aluminum.

Thanks guys.
 

cahaak

New member
The Dorman resonator that you can get on Amazon or Rock auto does not have a visible seam at the failure point. It is also only $30.

Chris
 

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