Buying the wrong 4x4: What would you do?

Graphite Dave

Dave Orton
We must be driving the different Sprinters. My 2014 (and 2010) are as simple as Windows 95.
I leave lights on or doors open all the time. SAM shuts them off in 10 min.
And there is nothing wrong with jump starting it. It has a jump start terminal under the hood.

This urban legend was created because the Sprinter charging system is controlled by the SAM module and it is adjustable.
Given that software logic implementation is as simple as writing a word, it has some additional functions written. Like low voltage alarm, high voltage alarm and a few more cool things.
The only drawback is that the alternator has to be registered on the network in order to talk to the system. It is like exchanging a phone numbers in order to talk to each other.
I was just stating what I read.

I also disconnected the ground at the accelerator pedal on my 08 when I installed my vehicle powered inverter. No problem when reconnected. Maybe problem only occurs on newer vehicles?

New vehicles are starting to change when they charge the vehicle battery to conserve fuel. If I understand the idea is to charge when decelerating instead of all the time. Might be interesting to determine how this affects using the alternator to charge house batteries. My personal choice is to avoid the vehicles electrical system for house battery charging.
 

surlyoldbill

Well-known member
Maybe with a T1N. The newer Sprinters are so complicated that the average person or independent shop can not diagnose the ailment without a connection to a computer with the proper software to inform the computer operator (mechanic?) what the problem is. The days of you and I checking to see if has a spark and that the carburetor has gas are long gone.

The Sprinter has a planned failure in LHM that allows the vehicle to be disabled for sometimes unimportant problems. The last one I had to smile about was the discussion about what happens when you put the "key" in the ignition with the door open. Humorous. Or if you let the battery go dead from leaving lights on where you have to get it back to the dealer to "reintroduce" the battery to the vehicle computer. My biggest complaint about the Sprinter was LHM that can reduce power at any time. Not a good thing when passing vehicles. That little episode was what forced me to sell the Sprinter.

No choice but to use a dealer or the very few independent shops that have the required software and a computer operator that can use it. If you are lucky and have a good dealer (which I was), then just enjoy the coffee and pastries and pay the very high costs. For what it costs you should get a 7 course gourmet lunch.

This BS is not exclusive to the Sprinter. My new Transit also has a CAN bus with little electrons dancing around. So far have not read about any poor programing to cause stupid LHM.
I don't have experience beyond T1n, but it seems that THEY are the orphans, which require diagnostic tools made of unobtainium. I think we touched on the future of car repair and ownership on another thread, so you may be correct that the newer the model is, the more proprietary the tooling and less likely it is to be accurately diagnosed and repaired by shop not certified by the manufacturer.:thumbdown:
 

DieselFumes

2015 4x4 2500 170 Crew
Diesel,
This is an unbelievable story, what makes is crazier is that I test drove 'your' van. I saw it in the lot and figured it was sold but the next day when my wife and I stopped by I was surprised that they said we could take it for a test drive.
How did you like the suspension seats? Comfy, huh?

Thanks for this extra information. Wilson told me that the van "sold the day it came in." So either way, you were either driving a van that they knew was a custom order for a specific customer, or a van that was already sold to another person. That is pretty reprehensible, and bordering on theft (using somebody else's possessions for your own purposes without permission). I wonder whether they'd allow you to test drive a customer's vehicle that they had in for service, because in my mind it's the same concept.

It wouldn't surprise me if OSV had bought it. I know they were very interested in getting their hands on as many 4x4s as they could - Lynwood said they'd put in 40 orders on the first day of availability, mostly for OSV. I don't know how many of those got fulfilled, but the 4x4 platform is just perfect for OSV, Sportsmobile, etc. - that's pretty much what I was/am planning to do myself to my van.

Can you tell me what day it was that you test drove the van?
 

DieselFumes

2015 4x4 2500 170 Crew
I'm shopping for another Sprinter, 2015 or 2016.I

Should I stop in Lynnwood o go up north?
I guess they loose a potential customer :thumbdown:
I don't have experience with the other dealers in the area, but from the Peninsula you could try Lynnwood or Tacoma/Fife area. Or, go with an out-of-state dealer who actually knows Sprinters and builds their reputation around selling them. Someone like The Sprinter Guy in Austin, TX. He'll often throw in a one-way plane ticket to sweeten the deal.
 

NBB

Well-known member
a one-way plane ticket...
I flew to another state to get what I wanted in my Sprinter. No brainer in retrospect.

Local dealer didn't have what I wanted, didn't know anything about the product, didn't like them, didn't like their price. Cool I could take a test drive, though.

Given the cost in both time and money of these Sprinters and what it takes to convert them, plane tickets add basically nothing in cost.

I'd buy 3-4 of them round trip - no issues - happy to come back empty handed from a few trips - if I were to do it all over.

I recently bought a motorcycle from another state, deeply regret not flying there to test ride it first. Ticket would have been quite cheap compared to the money I've spent trying to make the bike into what I really wanted, and what I will lose when I sell it.

Just another perspective, if you are considering...
 

GeorgeRa

2013 Sprinter DIY 144WB, Portland OR
Diesel,
This is an unbelievable story, what makes is crazier is that I test drove 'your' van. I saw it in the lot and figured it was sold but the next day when my wife and I stopped by I was surprised that they said we could take it for a test drive. That is a very cool but somewhat unique color. Right around the same time it disappeared from the lot a 170 Crew in that color showed up on the Outside Van website as being ready to covert.
This is all very discouraging. Coming from the tried and true honesty of the Syncro/Westfalia community this all makes me very nervous. I run a small local business, Wilson is my local dealer, Bellingham supports it own, but this just isn't right. I was trying to look beyond the fact that I know more about the vans on the lot than they do but this puts it over the top.
So yes, the Sprinter options book is about 300 pages long, but isn't it the sales persons job to at least familiarize themselves with their product? None of my technical specifics could be answered and no followup call or email from them with additional info.
I can't stomach the thought of having to do all the research myself and still have to pay a premium for them to basically pass a vehicle across there lot from MB to me. Especially if there is a chance they will just sell it before I get my hands on 'my' van.
I have been trying to find a Sprinter dealer thru the Costco Auto program. I found some posts from not long ago from people who appear to have bought the Sprinter thru the program and thru Wilson Motors but maybe they got dropped. Closet Costco dealers to the NW are now in California and Colorado. I guess a road trip is in store.
I bought mine from Lynwood through Costco program in late 2012 ordered and 2013 delivery. Very honest and sincere salesman Stan Pulsipher left Lynwood so this could be the reason why Costco dropped them. I go to Portland Freightliner for service and have good experience with them.

George.
 

wmlog

New member
... This is an unbelievable story, what makes is crazier is that I test drove 'your' van. I saw it in the lot and figured it was sold but the next day when my wife and I stopped by I was surprised that they said we could take it for a test drive. ... Right around the same time it disappeared from the lot a 170 Crew in that color showed up on the Outside Van website as being ready to convert. ...
It is absolutely reprehensible that a dealer would allow another customer to take a special ordered Sprinter for a test drive!

I was called immediately when my last Sprinter got to the dealers' lot. My last two Sprinters (2008 & 2014) were both special ordered and were prepped and ready to go in a matter of hours. Neither was on the dealers' lot for over 18 hours before delivery was made.

I think it's great that this forum is bringing people together and we are getting a little glimpse as to just how we (collectively) get screwed over from time to time. Now, we know that the dealer was giving rides in DieselFumes' Sprinter! It sounds like DieselFumes was out-and-out lied to. ... somebody 'has some 'splainin' to do!

Does anyone else see theft? Conversion?

Hey, the good thing here is that we now know where we can get someone else's car to take out for a joy ride!

---

DieselFumes -

Maybe OSV can upfit your Sprinter for you and then Wilson can buy it for you!
 
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jstar89crx

Well-known member
How did you like the suspension seats? Comfy, huh?
Can you tell me what day it was that you test drove the van?
Yes, suspensions seats were nice and the color was great :( The van had 11 miles on it when we got in it. They had to take it across the street for fuel before we could go. Returned it with 36 miles on it. Iowa St to Woburn to Lakeway towards Lake Whatcom, turn around at the lake, back on Lakeway, I5 to Iowa.

I know we drove it on a Saturday a few weeks ago, I'll see if my wife can remember exactly which day. It had been there a week or so parked in the corner display area right at the I5 off ramp/Iowa intersection. It was gone by the Tuesday or Wednesday after we drove it. I had been curious to drive one as we are deciding between 4x4 vs I4 and it's fuel economy and couldn't believe that they would have and unsold one in inventory. Sorry you have to go through all of this.
 

NBB

Well-known member
This is sounding a lot like they are just way dumber than they are malicious.

I wonder if the second van was meant for Outside Vans. If it were me, I'd call Outside Vans, just to check in, never know what may come of it. Seems to me - given the premise that all 4x4s are special ordered and spoken for - either they ordered the OP's current van, or there is a 3rd van we haven't yet discussed (and a 3rd customer who will get the wrong van...).
 

BC61

Member
given the premise that all 4x4s are special ordered and spoken for
The manufacturer doesn't care who is attached to the order. If a dealer wants inventory then they will submit the "special order".
 

Nate

Member
My dealer in Hartford CT was the same, in the sense that when the van showed up he sent me pictures of it still on the trailer. It was prepped and ready for pick up the next day. It did have 6 miles put on it by the tech fueling it and doing the test drive.

Sent from my Nexus 9 using Tapatalk
 

CheckMax

Member
The manufacturer doesn't care who is attached to the order. If a dealer wants inventory then they will submit the "special order".
Normally you would be correct except last year MB required every 4x4 order to have a specific customer and deposit tied to it. Dealers could not just order and stockpile 4x4s.
 

surlyoldbill

Well-known member
Back when I bought new, I would always go through the fleet manager to get what I wanted (often brought in from another dealer) and I wouldn't go to the lot and kick tires with the commissioned sales staff. The price was already determined before I even saw the truck.
 

Graphite Dave

Dave Orton
Back when I bought new, I would always go through the fleet manager to get what I wanted (often brought in from another dealer) and I wouldn't go to the lot and kick tires with the commissioned sales staff. The price was already determined before I even saw the truck.
You and I went to the same school. Only go to a dealer before purchase to look at vehicles on back lot and preferable when they are closed. Never talk to a salesman. Determine exactly what options I want and send out emails to fleet managers asking for lowest cash price to about 8 dealers. Get about 5 replies. Call second lowest and explain to them that they are close but slightly high and ask them if they would like to sharpen their pencil. They usually do and below the original lowest quote. Next do the same to the dealer that was lowest to see if they want to reduce the price. All very business like and not at all confrontational. It is better to be in control than have the dealer be controlling party. When you get to the lowest price walk in with a check and sign the papers.
 
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DieselFumes

2015 4x4 2500 170 Crew
Determine exactly what options I want and send out emails to fleet managers asking for lowest cash price to about 8 dealers. Get about 5 replies. Call second lowest and explain to them that they are close but slightly high and ask them if they would like to sharpen their pencil.
I read this strategy on the forum and applied it. Test drove a van at a local dealership. Worked via email with the commercial vehicles rep at each location. Got the best price quote from Wilson (because, as they later admitted, they didn't know the scarcity and "should never have offered it for that price" (1/2 way between invoice and MSRP)). Never visited the dealership in person before going to pick the van up. Most conversations were in email. One was a phone call - probably so they could check I was for real. One was a text from them to show me the vehicle being driven off the trailer.

Dealer prep took from Saturday evening (when delivered) through until Tuesday. Prep did NOT involve cleaning out the cargo area floor or re-attaching a loose piece of exterior trim. Really not sure who drove it during that time but it had 20 miles on it when I picked it up.

I don't want to fuel any conspiracy theories about the provenance of the "replacement" 4x4 I ended up with. Wilson say they did a dealer trade with a CA dealership who needed a passenger van. Ended up with the 4x4 in return. No reason to disbelieve that. As to the motivation for making that trade..? I guess who wouldn't want a 4x4 on their lot?
 

DieselFumes

2015 4x4 2500 170 Crew
Yes, suspensions seats were nice and the color was great :( The van had 11 miles on it when we got in it. They had to take it across the street for fuel before we could go. Returned it with 36 miles on it. Iowa St to Woburn to Lakeway towards Lake Whatcom, turn around at the lake, back on Lakeway, I5 to Iowa.

I know we drove it on a Saturday a few weeks ago, I'll see if my wife can remember exactly which day. It had been there a week or so parked in the corner display area right at the I5 off ramp/Iowa intersection. It was gone by the Tuesday or Wednesday after we drove it. I had been curious to drive one as we are deciding between 4x4 vs I4 and it's fuel economy and couldn't believe that they would have and unsold one in inventory. Sorry you have to go through all of this.
Thanks - exact dates would be awesome. Your experience helps paint a picture of something that you or I as small business owners could never - and would never try to - get away with.

Also, to clarify, they didn't at any point indicate that the van was sold, right? They were treating you as potential customers for that vehicle.
 

wmlog

New member
Driving expedite, I get the opportunity to go to dealerships in various states. The way I worked it was (1) decide my options and put them in writing, then (2) MSRP - X = my out the door cost, or dealer invoice + X = my out the door cost. (This was necessary because my vans were ordered before the current pricing had been established.) (Special Order Sprinters most likely cannot be bought for less than dealer invoice [I think], as that action is usually only relevant to year-end inventory or vehicles that have been sitting on the lot for some time.) The MSRP is the same for everyone, as is the shipping. The invoice is the same in Norfolk, VA or Seattle, WA. Ask the commercial sales manager to come up with a price, i.e., they get to tell you what their X is. You can get service from any dealer, and you get to choose! If a dealership doesn't want in, then pass them up. When your vehicle arrives, arrive with a check. I got bids for my business from Norfolk to Omaha to Minneapolis. It's business, and they are in it for your business, or they are not. If they don't want to deal, then why should I?

:thumbup:
 
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jstar89crx

Well-known member
Thanks - exact dates would be awesome. Your experience helps paint a picture of something that you or I as small business owners could never - and would never try to - get away with.

Also, to clarify, they didn't at any point indicate that the van was sold, right? They were treating you as potential customers for that vehicle.
We are very certain it was on Saturday June 27th that we drove the van. I saw it at least a week before that on the lot on display and it was during the beginning of that following week that it was gone. I know that doesn't line up with what Wilson stated regarding when it was sold but for that color, wheel base, crew, steel wheels, suspension seats, 4x4 it had to have been your van.
Never said anything about it being sold. We drove it first and then a short wheelbase 2wd I4 cargo. I wanted to see a short wheelbase crew for comparison but they didn't have any. They were going to contact me with when they would be getting one in or they were going to pull a crew seat out of another van and position it in the exact location of a short wheelbase cargo so I could visualize the layout but I never got a call or email back.
I am continually shocked by other businesses and what they feel are acceptable ways to treat people. We 'Do the right thing' for our clients, yes we leave money on the table, yes it feels at times that we are running a charity, but we sleep soundly at night, we make enough to be happy and pay our crew very well, and we have great repeat clients and a great reputation. Couldn't imagine it any other way.
 

DieselFumes

2015 4x4 2500 170 Crew
We are very certain it was on Saturday June 27th that we drove the van. I saw it at least a week before that on the lot on display and it was during the beginning of that following week that it was gone. I know that doesn't line up with what Wilson stated regarding when it was sold but for that color, wheel base, crew, steel wheels, suspension seats, 4x4 it had to have been your van.
Never said anything about it being sold. We drove it first and then a short wheelbase 2wd I4 cargo. I wanted to see a short wheelbase crew for comparison but they didn't have any. They were going to contact me with when they would be getting one in or they were going to pull a crew seat out of another van and position it in the exact location of a short wheelbase cargo so I could visualize the layout but I never got a call or email back.
I am continually shocked by other businesses and what they feel are acceptable ways to treat people. We 'Do the right thing' for our clients, yes we leave money on the table, yes it feels at times that we are running a charity, but we sleep soundly at night, we make enough to be happy and pay our crew very well, and we have great repeat clients and a great reputation. Couldn't imagine it any other way.
Hmmm. Thank you so much for following up on this. The sales person I was dealing with said he'd been driving the lot every day looking for my van. Even if (as he claims) someone "put the paperwork for the wrong van" in my customer file, you'd think he'd mention the other 4x4 that was SITTING OUTSIDE THE FRONT OF THE DEALERSHIP for two weeks. And maybe look at the VIN to compare it to the VIN number he'd previously given me. And since he was in checking my order, you might think he'd glance at the specs and put two and two together. I guess when the sales rep said in email to me on June 26 "[your van] didn't show up today" he wasn't actually telling a mistruth. It did not indeed show up that day because it had already been on the lot for a week.

This starts looking less and less like a potential honest mistake and more and more like a cover-up. WTF???
 

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