PAV Adventure 4x4 Build

Curious as to your 'complexity' comments on lithium battery (cost at $2k + for 200ah is pretty clear!) as I'm researching similar set up - can you please elaborate on additional impacts to your set up - agm vs lion?
 

vanski

'05 Snow Camper, '17 170 4x4, Adventure Vissionary
It's been a while since I've visited your thread... AWESOME!!! :rad:

Here is the final electrical to be implemented mostly by this weekend. I did not show all the grounds on the loads or all the lighting circuits.[/QUOTE said:
Regarding your final electrical install; would it be possible to run that OEM aux battery in parallel with your other 12v batteries to increase the AHs? Or, perhaps they're too far away? Some #4/0 (0000) wire could take care of the distance problem perhaps? I'm still a newbie with electrical and I'm more curious than anything. According to http://circuitwizard.bluesea.com/ you could run AWG2 up to 15 feet at 150amps.

Also, I noticed your concern about skis getting water in the vehicle and wanting a water proof 'bin' of sorts. I have a compartment that is for bikes in the late spring - fall, and skis in the winter. I've had problems with water collecting a couple times but only when I don't do a thorough job in getting all the snow off my gear after slaying POW all day. Personally I would separate where your skis are going to be in the 'garage', do a good job in getting the snow off, and not think about it too much since it's tucked away. At least that's my configuration and it's worked great.
 
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ddunaway

Member
Curious as to your 'complexity' comments on lithium battery (cost at $2k + for 200ah is pretty clear!) as I'm researching similar set up - can you please elaborate on additional impacts to your set up - agm vs lion?
Regarding Lithium complexity,

I considered ordering the separate components and putting them together myself to get the economics reasonable.

At a minimum, I was going to get the batteries, a BMS (main unit, battery monitoring sensors, LCD), and a couple of contractors to control charging and low voltage cutout of loads. It is possible that I would want more in the way of charge control from the alternator. For solar, I would likely need a different charge controller than the Tracer MPPT.

There are also temperature concerns but I think the BMS handles most of that. For me it was important that I would be able to use the batteries at cold temperature, which you can…….you just cannot charge below freezing.

The Lithium thing also seems to draw focus to the technology aspect of the van. I like technology but there is an aesthetic to having a system that does not require much thought, gets it done, and does not take up much mental space worrying about it.

On the positive side, Li is lighter and smaller, charges super fast and more efficiently, and allows for some new components (induction cooking for example) due to the high current capacity. I suspect though that my electrical needs are pretty minimal. Also, the space savings does not play out for me because I can easily fit one of the group 31s under the passenger seat next to the D2, whereas the 200Ahr Lithium does not easily fit there.

I have a lot of other stuff to get done on the van and Li is more to deal with at this point. If I had a van that I had already converted and was replacing the batteries, I suspect that I would go the Li route.
 
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ddunaway

Member
It's been a while since I've visited your thread... AWESOME!!! :rad:



Regarding your final electrical install; would it be possible to run that OEM aux battery in parallel with your other 12v batteries to increase the AHs? Or, perhaps they're too far away? Some #4/0 (0000) wire could take care of the distance problem perhaps? I'm still a newbie with electrical and I'm more curious than anything. According to http://circuitwizard.bluesea.com/ you could run AWG2 up to 15 feet at 150amps.
Vanski,

All my battery wiring is 2 guage and can handle the current loads. The battery bank switch that I installed has 4 positions (bank 1 (OEM), bank 2 (Fullriver group 31s), both, and off). Both essentially connects all batteries in parallel as you describe. The shunt and battery monitor is connected to the Fullrivers though, so current and SOC will read on those 230 Ahrs of batteries.

I struggled with the decision of whether to put all the batteries in parallel or separate them. Everything I read about battery banks says do not mix different sizes and manufacturers. Also, at different temperatures (OEM battery is outside) the battery performance changes (for example charging voltages and useable Ahr capacity). My batteries (OEM vrs Fullriver) seem to have theoretical discharge curves that differ by 0.25V throughout their ranges. Also the OEM is a dual duty battery instead of true deep cycle. Does all this really matter? I do not know. I suspect that with the banks in parallel I would see some might see some slight decrease in the life of the batteries.
 

vanski

'05 Snow Camper, '17 170 4x4, Adventure Vissionary
That makes sense. I currently have two 6v batts running in series and am thinking of adding two additional 6vs in the series, but I'm wondering if the difference in age would even impact the battery life. Thanks for the detail..
 

jme3505

2019 Gas Transit
That makes sense. I currently have two 6v batts running in series and am thinking of adding two additional 6vs in the series, but I'm wondering if the difference in age would even impact the battery life. Thanks for the detail..
If you have two 6v batteries they are have to be in series to obtain 12v and if you have 12v batteries they have to be ran in parallel.
I just ordered 2 100Ah 12v batteries to install in parallel to make a 200Ah.
Jon
 

vanski

'05 Snow Camper, '17 170 4x4, Adventure Vissionary
If you have two 6v batteries they are have to be in series to obtain 12v and if you have 12v batteries they have to be ran in parallel.
I just ordered 2 100Ah 12v batteries to install in parallel to make a 200Ah.
Jon
Ummmmmmmmm... Yes, that's why I said adding two additional 6vs in series to my config as an example of a series configuration. The Powder Assault Vehicle is being configured with 12v thus parallel. :smilewink:
 

jme3505

2019 Gas Transit
Ummmmmmmmm... Yes, that's why I said adding two additional 6vs in series to my config as an example of a series configuration. The Powder Assault Vehicle is being configured with 12v thus parallel. :smilewink:
Sorry, I must be tired. I only mentioned because I got them mixed up when I was trying to order 2 12v batts to wire in series........They asked if I was doing a 24v system.
 

vanski

'05 Snow Camper, '17 170 4x4, Adventure Vissionary
Aha..

No problem; I'm just jealous you guys have 4x4s.. :bow:
 

ddunaway

Member
Moving heater over to make room for Group 31 battery under the passenger seat

When I initially installed the heater, I mounted it on the only flat spot underneath the passenger seat. I later realized that I could easily fit a battery too if the heater was mounted further over, and that it would be easy to do by installing a mounting plate to make the bottom flat. The 304 SS mounting plate was coated with Permatex and screwed in. As far as things go pretty straightforward ~2 hrs start to finish.
 

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ddunaway

Member
Floor insulation/Sound deadening/Prep for structure attachment

I was reticent to give up any floor height but then settled on giving up ~ a half inch to lower noise and get to perhaps R 3 or 4 on the floor. I decided to do 1/4 in closed cell foam, 1lb MLV, 1/4 in closed cell foam, OEM ply, OEM crew rubber floor. I also filled the troughs. The initial idea was inspired by GR8 but I think he did not fill troughs. Hopefully, the MLV will be free enough to move between the foam layers, so that I will give significant sound deadening.

I had been waiting for the MLV to arrive for a few weeks. Inertiaman dropped of the MLV and some batteries on Friday after a trip back from Portland. Super thx. I also got ~10 orders in Thursday-Friday. Lots to do suddenly this weekend. Finally!
 

ddunaway

Member
Prep for structure attachment

I plan using some of the MB attachment points to attach part of my bed/storage structure. One threaded location is holding the floor down 17 in from the side near the rear door. This first spot is already exposed. The second threaded location is used to hold the second row seats in (only using one of these holes). I have a crew, so no seats or exposed threaded attachment points are visible at this location but they are down there underneath. Dimensions are in this post....

https://sprinter-source.com/forums/showthread.php?t=39890

I measured it, drilled with a step drill, then peered in to see the threads. I was off a little but was able to open the hole up in the needed direction easily enough.

I then triangulated the locations with string from various angles and marked the locations on the walls, so I can find the threaded positions later. I'll have to drill thru the OEM floor later.
 

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ddunaway

Member
Foam and MVL install

I put 1/2 in polyiso in the deepest troughs. Over this and in the smaller troughs, I put 1/4 in closed cell foam. This was really just foam left over from the larger pieces used on the next layers. This was sort of tedious work but in the end it should be better insulated and the floor is essentially supported everywhere instead of just at the peaks.

Next came 1/4 in closed cell foam, MLV, and 1/4 closed cell foam.

I got rid of the tar paper stuff that was stapled to the bottom of the OEM plywood floor. With foam and MLV I think the tar paper adds no value.

I decided to keep 2 strips of the velcro under the OEM floor and get rid of 3 others. I glued and screwed 1/2 in wood strips along the bottom of the OEM ply near the slider door and on the opposite side. To this I attached the Velcro that was under the OEM ply in that location. The idea is that this will help hold down the floor near the slider door.

Inertiaman suggested that I just put the seat attachment brackets under the OEM ply instead of trying to space it up. This was a stroke of genius. It required less hardware, gives a stronger attachment, and allows me to easily plug them and get some insulation there. Mostly I imaging that I will not use that seat. The brackets ended up just a hair above the foam but I think it should be OK. Hopefully, the seat still fits (looks like it should) and the brackets do not transmit much noise to the OEM ply.
 

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Graphite Dave

Dave Orton
Prep for structure attachment

I then triangulated the locations with string from various angles and marked the locations on the walls, so I can find the bolts later. I'll have to drill thru the OEM floor later.
If you have access from under van, drill up through the hole from underneath.
 

ddunaway

Member
Here is a layout of all the M10 threaded holes I found in our 2010 3500 170WB:
http://www.impact3d.com/2010MBSprinter3500_170WB_OEM_floor.pdf
Wow, that would be super useful for me if it was for a 144 WB. Were those holes exposed? Or did you find a drawing? Or how did you locate them......X-ray vision? Most are not visible from below on my van.

I wonder if those holes between the wheel wells are in the same lateral position on a 144WB. I suspect not. 3 in inboard of my holes is more convenient for me.
 
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ddunaway

Member
I was unsure about the color when I ordered it......had never seen one before. The sales guy actually discouraged the Pebble Grey. I liked the look of the darker colors but did not want the heat absorption in the sun.

Now that I have it......I really like it. Its the best color!!!!!

Let me see if I have more pictures to share.
 

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