I just really, really, really don't like when some here post incomplete information.I thought you were going away, Aqua.
I have never commented about or tried to do psychological analysis of anyone here on the forum. Apparently you are more learned in that area than I am.You and a couple others on the forum either have a serious case of psychological projection, since you see fear and worry in the minds of people you do not know, OR you have the ability to mind read across long distances. Why not let other folks use their prudential judgment in fuel selection and maintenance for their vehicles, and you can do whatever the hell you want?
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Do you care to refute my reply in a similar manner that I used to respond to your post?MB’s 2015 biodiesel brochure shows pictures of component issues related to higher% biodiesel use. MB included these pix for a reason, I’m sure.
That isn't in conflict with earlier information posted here.... Also, don't use biomass diesel - that Mercedes does not approve in any percentage. ...
Biomass fuel is easily identified by the required orange label....
If you follow the Mercedes guidelines for blue label B20 (not at all difficult), use blue label B20 or not, it ain't gonna matter.
vic
There is so much confusion about bio/biomass diesel. I saw this post on the Minnie Winnie’s forum. I think Chevron’s reply should clear up some of this.
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The wording on the orange label you are referring to “contains biomass-based diesel or biodiesel in quantities between 5 percent and 20 percent” is required by the FTC, and serves to notify the customer that the diesel fuel contains biomass-based diesel (in addition to petroleum-based), but does not necessarily mean it is a biodiesel product.
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Biomass-based diesel [orange label] does not necessarily mean biodiesel, although it is also bio-derived. Biodiesel is produced from similar renewable feedstocks, but its chemical composition is distinctly different, and it is produced using entirely different chemical processes than those used in making renewable diesel.
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Regards,
Chevron Fuels Technical Service
fueltek@...
tel: +1 510 242 5357 option#3
office hours: Mon-Fri 9-11am; 1-3pm (Pacific)
Right. Thanks for clarification.Small detail: Gas can have ethanol thinking its a oxygenated cleaner air additive : there's E-15, E-85. Diesel can have boidiesel: B5, B15, B20, B99 AFAIN
1. I miss-spoke when I said "ethanol." Sorry for the mistake.aarpskier, maybe that's why the dealers couldn't tell you what the ethanol concentration was since there is no ethanol added to #2 diesel. Yes, Federal rules require that Road use diesel pumps must be labelled Ultra Low Sulfur and also bio content. 0-5 - no labelling required. 5-20 is labelled as 20, and anything above 20 must be labelled. This is the latest Mercedes Bio-Diesel Brochure: https://lookaside.fbsbx.com/file/Me...Dll3avHcB780UPUT1K5RR25FBNEqdMI1kVvF2T6-D9xLC.
Follow the guidance. If routinely using bio above 5%, more frequent oil changes are recommended - 10K, vice 20k. Also, limit idling to 5 minutes or less. We had Mercedes Engineers at the Skinny-Winnie Rally at Winnebago, at Paso Robles View/Navion Rally, and are going to be at our next rally in Virginia. They repeated this info - also recommended checking oil level. Also, don't use biomass diesel - that Mercedes does not approve in any percentage. Last, don't sweat it. A tank or two of bio content at 20% is not going to make a difference. If in Minnesota or most of Illinois and can't avoid routine fill up with B20, just follow the guidance.
There is very good reason that Mercedes Benz has modified their previous hard line stance on biofuel use in the USA. The following information also shows why digging up MB warnings published prior to 2013 regarding biofuel use, or older info from any manufacturer may have little value, and can actually be misleading.
Since 2012 B100 used to blend needs to meet an updated ATSM D6751 specification.
https://www.dieselnet.com/tech/fuel_biodiesel_std.php
"Two major specifications establishing the quality requirements for alkyl ester-based biodiesel fuels are the ASTM D6751 in the USA and the EN 14214 in Europe.
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Approaches to US and EU standards for biodiesel differ. In the USA, ASTM D6751 establishes specifications for a biodiesel blend stock for middle distillate fuels. While the specification was written for B100, it is not intended for neat biodiesel used as automotive fuel. Rather, it is for the biodiesel component that is to be blended to produce biodiesel/diesel fuel blends. Since 2012, the ASTM D6751 standard defines two grades of biodiesel: grade 2-B (identical to biodiesel defined by earlier versions of the standard) and grade 1-B with tighter controls on monoglycerides and cold soak filterability. Two automotive standards for biodiesel/diesel fuel blends have been published by ASTM:
The ASTM Standard Specification for Diesel Oil, ASTM D975 [commercial on road diesel], was modified in 2008 to allow up to 5% biodiesel to be blended into the fuel.
ASTM D7467 is a specification for biodiesel blends from B6 to B20."
vic
I think there is still some confusion between "biodiesel" and "biomass diesel". They are not quite the same thing. They are produced from different sources and by different methods. And they have different labels at the pump. (See label examples in Aqua Puttana post #88).3. "Also, don't use biomass diesel - that Mercedes does not approve in any percentage." As others have pointed out on this thread, there are tens, if not hundreds, of thousands of MB diesels in this country... [that use this fuel]
As to Aqua Puttana's labels, in the recent 2-month trip I detailed above, I never saw either the center or the right label. Most of the pumps I used had the left label, or at least something similar referencing ULSD. In addition, a few pumps had additional labels to the effect that the fuel was between B5% and B20%.I think there is still some confusion between "biodiesel" and "biomass diesel". They are not quite the same thing. They are produced from different sources and by different methods. And they have different labels at the pump. (See label examples in Aqua Puttana post #88).
I'm not sure "biomass diesel" (the orange pump label) is as widely available at retail pumps, compared to B20 (blue label). So we can't assume that lots of sprinters have run lots of miles with biomass diesel.
Well, the only differences we really need to know are:I don't know the difference between "biomass" and "biodiesel" (and a re-reading of the now-10 pages of this thread suggests many folks are like me).
I love it, when put on the spot the Mercedes reps will say what makes their vehicle still appealing for purchase, even with a cringe on the face. Telling folks they cant drive through Minnesota is an automaker P.R. no-no apparently, to the benefit of everyone trying to get a straight answer about b20 in egr/dpf dieselsSome interesting official info from MB on BioDiesel here: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WfW27mnRH5U&t=0s
Biodiesel discussion begins at 12:30. Yeah, and numerous cuts during the Peter DeMayo interview. Allow me to translate: Avoid B20 at all costs!!!I love it, when put on the spot the Mercedes reps will say what makes their vehicle still appealing for purchase, even with a cringe on the face. Telling folks they cant drive through Minnesota is an automaker P.R. no-no apparently, to the benefit of everyone trying to get a straight answer about b20 in egr/dpf diesels
Your picture grab of Peter Demayo is very compelling data.... Allow me to translate: Avoid B20 at all costs!!!
My opinion. Ford is more practical in the approach to fluids. Mercedes has always been extremely conservative when it comes to any fluids. I offer the BeVo list as evidence. There are few manufacturers who bother to go into similar detail. Most rely on ACEA, API, and other industry standards.So what do you all suppose Ford is doing different in their diesel engine used in the Transit chassis? In all the Ford literature they tout B20 capable and have no admonishments about idle times or other concerns.
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More likely dielectric than opacity as to any sensor. The computers are also able to track engine temperatures, operating hours, speeds, etc. to use in the calculations. That is what the MB T1N ASSYST oil change used for data.In addition the Transit diesel is equipped with technology to alert when an oil change is required rather than a specific interval. I'm guessing is a sensor that is looking through the oil at some point to determine when the particulate load reaches a certain level (oil becomes less transparent as particulate load increases). In my case that alert happened around 10,500 miles. When I had it changed I asked the techs to let me look at the oil. It did not seem unduly filthy to me or to them. I'm guessing the sensor errs on the side of caution.
No problem. It seems that most anything is ok when it comes to biodiesel discussion.I know, I know, not a Ford forum but smart guys lurk here so thought they could shed some light...
My apologies for the confusion. Peter's ugly mug was not intended as "compelling data."Your picture grab of Peter Demayo is very compelling data.
View attachment 111056
So we revert back to what we want to believe? I thought there was actually some progress made toward accepting published MB data in this thread.
This is PUBLISHED BY MERCEDES BENZ. It is verifiable as official data.
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More of the official post 2013 information is available in the PDF brochure and earlier discussions.
Use blue label B20 or not, but let's keep to facts.
Keep in mind that a Blue B20 label identifies biofuel blend ranging from B6 to B20. It is not even necessarily a B20 fuel.
vic
This was not the message I intended to communicate. Rather, I meant to say that if MB says its okay, then its okay. They just had to get squeezed into the position of saying it.Biodiesel discussion begins at 12:30. Yeah, and numerous cuts during the Peter DeMayo interview. Allow me to translate: Avoid B20 at all costs!!!
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=WfW27mnRH5U