Installation of Inverter - James Cook

[stroomphy]

Other than Zach, I cannot find any reference to installing an 120V/12V inverter in the Sprinter-Westfalia forum.

I will be installing a small inverter to charge the computers and the cameras. Nothing serious.

Anyone install an inverter? Where is the best place to install an inverter (It has been said that the inverter must be as close to the batteries as possible to reduce resistance loads on the wires).

Photos of install would be great.

Thanks
Chris

 

[onemanvan]

There are many inverters in the 100~150 watt range that should work for charging laptops, cell phones, etc... Preferably they should output a pure sine wave. These small inverters typically consume less than 15 amps - so many of them come equipped with a cigarette lighter plug. That takes the guess work out of installing them. I chose a Samlex for it's small form factor but Exeltech inverters are actually better. I'm using mine to charge small stuff and run my TV, DVD, Sat rcvr and DVR. Not all at the same time of course

 

[OldWest]

Bought a 300 watt SureSine inverter because pure sine and no fan. Downside is need to wire your own outlet. Located under the kitchen drainpan so wires run from batteries to behind kitchen cabinet through open area behind kitchen sink to area under drain pan. Screwed inverted to back side of kitchen cabinet in that area--inverter at an angle for easier wiring. There are some other wires behind kitchen cabinet so have to watch where screws go.

Other locations include on top of metal plate covering battery charger behind rear seat, underside roof of sstorage area behind rear seat, under kitchen sink in cabinet, in microwave compartment if no microwave, or in circuit breaker area. An extension cord would be run from inverter to convenient area.

OneManVan cleverly installed a large inverter behind microwave to run the microwave. Permanently runs off inverter so no need for switch to 120 volt circuit or to hook up a pass through circuit.

 

[OldWest]

For computers, look for computer adapters from Targus or GoPower--these plug into cigarette outlets to run computers. May be more efficient as converting DC to DC versus DC to AC to DC. Have to double-check cigarette outlet wattage so don't blow fuses.

Small plug-in cigarette lighter inverters may be sufficient for camera batteries.

Direct wired inverters can provide greater wattage/power.

Believe someone here set up an inverter system to run a 120 volt Air Conditioner off engine.

 

[john.bodley]

@onemanvan regarding your Samlex inverter setup pictured above what/where is the source 12v input?

 

[onemanvan]

I picked up 12vdc from the cigarette lighter wiring under the bottom shelf of the overhead kitchen cabinet. The Samlex inverter does not have an on/off switch so I repurposed the switch for the upper berth lights - which have their own switches.

 

[john.bodley]

Thanks @onemanvan. I did notice that there was no power switch. I think I'm probably going to set something like the Samplex PST-300,

http://www.samlexamerica.com/documents/product-specs/12001-PST-300-12-24-0413.pdf

as it has a power switch and a thermal controlled fan. Initially I thought that the pass through USB feature on some of their inverters was a nice touch for charging phones, etc. but then found out that they're always on drawing < 0.5 A, whereas I would rather something which I can turn completely off.

 

[grozier]

We have a 1500W "dumb" square wave inverter installed in the bottom cabinet of the kitchen where the circuit breakers are. Installation was many years ago but the important thing is to use very beefy cable, fuse-protect it, and be careful to prevent chafing of the wires. The house battery bank, coupled with heavy cable, could easily burn the van to the ground should something go wrong. Go to a marine store to make up your own cables.

Ours is mounted vertically to the wall between the lower cabinet and the "trash" cabinet. In fact, I think I used the holes that once held that long-gone silly wire trash holder. The wire run to the battery bank is reasonably short there.

We only use it occasionally, but it is enough to run a toaster oven (with the engine running) for apres-ski nachos, etc. and easily handles laptops and cell phones.

Ted

 

[discus]

Ive got a picture of my Magnum MS2812 inverter on my Westy 142 Mods page. Just to keep them in one place.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[OldWest]

1. Discus' inverter:

https://sprinter-source.com/forum/showpost.php?p=371233&postcount=4

Believe this is second location. Originally, in the hot water tank compartment???

Discus' inverter is a Magnum heavy duty one, which is quite large and limits the possible locations.

Lighter-duty inverters are much smaller.

2. James Cook

There is a James Cook 4x4 which has the inverter mounted behind the rear seat, closest to the passenger side iof inside the cabinet (where the metal support brackets are).

3.Kitchen Cabinet

Discus' modification of the kitchen sink drain with a HepVo drain opens up the possibility of mounting an inverter on the inside kitchen cabinet wall adjacent to batteries. Battery cables would route right through that kitchen cabinet wall.

For even more space, the HepVo drain could be mounted more rearwards using more 45 degree angles pipes.

https://sprinter-source.com/forum/showpost.php?p=377597&postcount=8

https://sprinter-source.com/forum/showpost.php?p=285039&postcount=1

 

[Bernd Pfrommer]

Any suggestions on how to accomplish the following?
- when on shore power, outlets are powered by shore power
- when on battery, outlets are powered by a whole-house inverter, possibly strong enough to drive the microwave
- have the ability to switch off the inverter such that it doesn't draw power when not needed
- not touch the existing (still original) house battery charging circuit
We currently use a 300W inverter for the laptops, but it takes up precious counter space in the kitchen and I don't like having cable spaghetti around.
I could live with a manual transfer switch. A 1000W square wave inverter would probably do from a power perspective as most laptops can handle fairly dirty power.
Does anybody have a setup that comes close to this? I have seen discus' inverter but we don't have the space for this because we still have our black water tank (and want to keep it). Where to install the inverter? What transfer switch to use? How to run cables?
Thanks!

 

[onemanvan]

Any suggestions on how to accomplish the following?
- when on shore power, outlets are powered by shore power
- when on battery, outlets are powered by a whole-house inverter, possibly strong enough to drive the microwave
- have the ability to switch off the inverter such that it doesn't draw power when not needed
- not touch the existing (still original) house battery charging circuit
We currently use a 300W inverter for the laptops, but it takes up precious counter space in the kitchen and I don't like having cable spaghetti around.
I could live with a manual transfer switch. A 1000W square wave inverter would probably do from a power perspective as most laptops can handle fairly dirty power.
Does anybody have a setup that comes close to this? I have seen discus' inverter but we don't have the space for this because we still have our black water tank (and want to keep it). Where to install the inverter? What transfer switch to use? How to run cables?
Thanks!

I recently relocated my exeltech xp1100 watt inverter from the rear part of the microwave compartment to the trashcan compartment.
I think it will get better air circulation there, it fits perfectly and makes use of otherwise wasted space.
I've toyed with the idea of an automatic or manual transfer switch but decided it's just not worth the effort.

For example - consider which circuits you might power with the inverter:
1) Air conditioner - NO
2) Battery charger - NO ( in fact this circuit is a problem! )
3) Microwave - maybe but there's an easy alternative
4) Outlets - maybe but there are better options

With regard to the microwave I ran a short extension cord from the microwave compartment outlet to the cabinet under the dish drain pan lid and ran the power cord for the microwave to the same location. The Exeltech inverter has a terminal strip on the back - I cut the plug off a 3 port extension cord and 'hard-wired' it to that terminal strip. The 3 outlet extension cord terminates in the same location as the microwave related cords/plugs/receptacles. So in effect that is my 'manual' transfer switch for the microwave...

With regard to the outlets there are really only two of them:

1) The one above the bathroom door might me useful for hair dryers and curling irons but as my username implies I'm a solo traveler and I don't have enough hair left to justify using those appliances - which BTW consume an inordinate amount of power!

2) The one above the dish drain pan is awkward to access. Most counter top kitchen appliances have a short 2 foot cord and won't reach from the counter top to that outlet. The way I've installed my inverter you can plug those appliances into the outlets on the front of the inverter or lift up the dish drain lid and plug the appliances into the 3 port outlet that's hard wired to the rear of the inverter.

With regard to the battery charger - the microwave is on the same circuit. With a 'whole house' transfer switch you would need to flip this breaker off when the circuits are powered by the inverter. Obviously you don't want to induce a 'dog chasing it's tail' scenario into system. IE: it would be problematic to have the inverter converting DC to AC then using that AC to power a battery charger that converts AC to DC to charge the battery that's powering the inverter. So if you turn that breaker off then the microwave won't work!

And finally - most inverters have neutral and ground bonded together - either internally or externally with a jumper. The more I researched how best to incorporate a 'whole house' transfer switch the more confused I became with regard to 'best practice' for bonding & grounding. If done incorrectly the RCD/GFI devices won't work correctly which could result in a hazardous situation...

 

[grozier]

Do you still have the generator? If not, you could make use of the automatic switching circuit. As far as I can tell, this thing isn't on the wiring diagrams, but I can confirm it existed from the beginning on unit #121. (We were original owners.)

I am not sure which has "priority" -- generator or shore -- but I imagine someone will chime in. There was once talk of it not being a good idea to run the generator when connected to shore power but I am not sure if that's true or not. Seems like the ATS30 would sort that out.

Ted

 

[Adrianlle]

Greetings from the U.K. I don’t have the Cook at moment so can’t send photos. However I installed a 350w Victron pure sine wave inverter in the bottom cabinet under the hob. Fixed it to the right hand wall looking into the cabinet. It makes little difference to the storage. The cables to the battery then have a straight run behind the cabinets to the batteries. The Victron has a wired off/on facility so I repurposed the roof light switch above the drainer. At the same time I installed a remote socket there for the inverter alongside the existing one. Works well and even charge electric bike batteries from it ok.
In the same cabinet below the hob, at the back above the wheel arch, I also installed a 3M water filter so never have to worry about the water quality. Plumbed into the feed to the cold kitchen tap. Thanks

 

[Bernd Pfrommer]

Do you still have the generator? If not, you could make use of the automatic switching circuit. As far as I can tell, this thing isn't on the wiring diagrams, but I can confirm it existed from the beginning on unit #121. (We were original owners.)

I am not sure which has "priority" -- generator or shore -- but I imagine someone will chime in. There was once talk of it not being a good idea to run the generator when connected to shore power but I am not sure if that's true or not. Seems like the ATS30 would sort that out.

Ted

For better or worse I still have the generator. Thanks for your input though!

 

[Bernd Pfrommer]

I recently relocated my exeltech xp1100 watt inverter from the rear part of the microwave compartment to the trashcan compartment.
I think it will get better air circulation there, it fits perfectly and makes use of otherwise wasted space.
I've toyed with the idea of an automatic or manual transfer switch but decided it's just not worth the effort.

For example - consider which circuits you might power with the inverter:
1) Air conditioner - NO
2) Battery charger - NO ( in fact this circuit is a problem! )
3) Microwave - maybe but there's an easy alternative
4) Outlets - maybe but there are better options

With regard to the microwave I ran a short extension cord from the microwave compartment outlet to the cabinet under the dish drain pan lid and ran the power cord for the microwave to the same location. The Exeltech inverter has a terminal strip on the back - I cut the plug off a 3 port extension cord and 'hard-wired' it to that terminal strip. The 3 outlet extension cord terminates in the same location as the microwave related cords/plugs/receptacles. So in effect that is my 'manual' transfer switch for the microwave...

With regard to the outlets there are really only two of them:

1) The one above the bathroom door might me useful for hair dryers and curling irons but as my username implies I'm a solo traveler and I don't have enough hair left to justify using those appliances - which BTW consume an inordinate amount of power!

2) The one above the dish drain pan is awkward to access. Most counter top kitchen appliances have a short 2 foot cord and won't reach from the counter top to that outlet. The way I've installed my inverter you can plug those appliances into the outlets on the front of the inverter or lift up the dish drain lid and plug the appliances into the 3 port outlet that's hard wired to the rear of the inverter.

With regard to the battery charger - the microwave is on the same circuit. With a 'whole house' transfer switch you would need to flip this breaker off when the circuits are powered by the inverter. Obviously you don't want to induce a 'dog chasing it's tail' scenario into system. IE: it would be problematic to have the inverter converting DC to AC then using that AC to power a battery charger that converts AC to DC to charge the battery that's powering the inverter. So if you turn that breaker off then the microwave won't work!

And finally - most inverters have neutral and ground bonded together - either internally or externally with a jumper. The more I researched how best to incorporate a 'whole house' transfer switch the more confused I became with regard to 'best practice' for bonding & grounding. If done incorrectly the RCD/GFI devices won't work correctly which could result in a hazardous situation...

Thanks for the very insightful reply. The circular charging scenario is something I did not consider. I'm a bit surprised that you get away with your "ATS" solution because it means you are feeding shore power into the output side of the inverter. Apparently it can handle it.
I'm leaning towards using a similar setup to what you have but with a bona fide manual transfer switch. But I really want to power the outlet above the kitchen counter top as well. The question is how to run a power cable from under the sink to the top cabinet.

 

[onemanvan]

Thanks for the very insightful reply. The circular charging scenario is something I did not consider. I'm a bit surprised that you get away with your "ATS" solution because it means you are feeding shore power into the output side of the inverter. Apparently it can handle it.
I'm leaning towards using a similar setup to what you have but with a bona fide manual transfer switch. But I really want to power the outlet above the kitchen counter top as well. The question is how to run a power cable from under the sink to the top cabinet.

I'm NOT feeding shore power into the output side of the inverter.
My inverter is completely isolated from the OEM Westy AC electrical system.
I hardwired an extension cord to the back of the inverter.



In this photo you can see the BLACK microwave power cord is plugged into the extension cord hard wired to back of the inverter.

The other extension cord is plugged into the outlet in the microwave compartment.
It's for the rare occasion I might want to energize the microwave off shore power.

Note:
Disregard the previous photo showing a BLACK extension cord plugged into the outlet in the microwave compartment.
It's actually a flat 3 wire extension cord.

 

[Bernd Pfrommer]

I'm NOT feeding shore power into the output side of the inverter.
My inverter is completely isolated from the OEM Westy AC electrical system.
I hardwired an extension cord to the back of the inverter.



In this photo you can see the BLACK microwave power cord is plugged into the extension cord hard wired to back of the inverter.

The other extension cord is plugged into the outlet in the microwave compartment.
It's for the rare occasion I might want to energize the microwave off shore power.

Note:
Disregard the previous photo showing a BLACK extension cord plugged into the outlet in the microwave compartment.
It's actually a flat 3 wire extension cord.

Oh, so you manually unplug the microwave and plug it into the other outlets that are shore powered?

 

[onemanvan]

Oh, so you manually unplug the microwave and plug it into the other outlets that are shore powered?

Yes - I manually unplug the microwave from the inverter and plug it into the extension cord that's plugged into the outlet in the microwave compartment. I very rarely camp where there is shore power available - 99% dry camping - so I don't anticipate needing to do this - it's just in case...

 

[Bernd Pfrommer]

Had a look at our van this week and worked through the various alternatives of where to install the inverter. I like the location that @onemanvan picked and was able to convince my other half to give it up for the common good. Then I did some basic math and realized that a 1000W inverter will need about a 100A(!!) fuse, and I'd need to run about 8 gauge wire. I had thought I'd just tap into the existing fuse box, but the largest breaker there is 25A. Oops. Where did you connect those humongous wires to (like the black and red that I can see in @onemanvan's picture)? Home run to the battery and somehow connect to the battery harness? Install a second fuse box or just use an in-line fuse? Certainly feels like a fuse is a good idea as @grozier mentioned.
Oh, and apparently, contrary to what I thought so far, some laptops *cannot* handle square waves and need pure sine, so I will go for a pure sine wave.