I made this camper van electrical diagram, but I desperately need help!

[pedalingnowhere]

OK, I am new here. Just got a 2012 144" and we are on a bit of a time crunch with our conversion. I have spent endless days here trying to school myself in electric systems, but I'm still clueless. Here is the diagram I drew up, but I need to make sure nothing is off or missing. Here are a few questions relative questions I have:

1. Can I put one battery under driver's seat and one under passenger and link them together?
2. Are all of the positive runs with 4 gauge wire?
3. Should there be an additional switch to turn the whole system off when the van is parked for an extended period of time?
4. Am I missing any fuzes? A support guy at Blue Sea said I don't need one with the ML 500, but most other systems I have studied have a fuze between the starter battery and the ACR.
5. Is this way off??

Thanks in advance for any help!!!

 

[GeorgeRa]

OK, I am new here. Just got a 2012 144" and we are on a bit of a time crunch with our conversion. I have spent endless days here trying to school myself in electric systems, but I'm still clueless. Here is the diagram I drew up, but I need to make sure nothing is off or missing. Here are a few questions relative questions I have:

1. Can I put one battery under driver's seat and one under passenger and link them together?
Thanks in advance for any help!!!

Yes for passenger seat, no for the driver seat. You could consider one battery – see Dave Orton DIY or one under the hood and one in the passenger seat base

2. Are all of the positive runs with 4 gauge wire?
Thanks in advance for any help!!!

No, 1000W inverter (85 A) requires #2 or #1 or even 1/0 for long distance

3. Should there be an additional switch to turn the whole system off when the van is parked for an extended period of time?

It is a common practice

4. Am I missing any fuzes? A support guy at Blue Sea said I don't need one with the ML 500, but most other systems I have studied have a fuze between the starter battery and the ACR.
5. Is this way off??

You have no fuses nor circuit breakers and you certainly need them. You have no AC ground connection. I suggest to identify current flow on each cable and size wires and fuses or CBs accordingly.

Electrical installations are often sources of fires by undersized wires, bad connections, lack of fuses in right places. If safety is your concern perhaps hiring an expert would help.

George.

 

[pfflyer]

Welcome. I don't think you are going to fit a battery under the drivers seat. Xantrex I think calls for a fuse close to the battery.

 

[pedalingnowhere]

Yes for passenger seat, no for the driver seat. You could consider one battery – see Dave Orton DIY or one under the hood and one in the passenger seat base

No, 1000W inverter (85 A) requires #2 or #1 or even 1/0 for long distance


It is a common practice

You have no fuses nor circuit breakers and you certainly need them. You have no AC ground connection. I suggest to identify current flow on each cable and size wires and fuses or CBs accordingly.

Electrical installations are often sources of fires by undersized wires, bad connections, lack of fuses in right places. If safety is your concern perhaps hiring an expert would help.

George.

Another cause of fires... people who don't know what they are doing. I think an expert is definitely in order... I am even more confused now. Anybody know someone who can do something like this in North carolina? Or better yet, is there anybody here who would want to make a few bucks to design the system with specifics. I am pretty handy and I think I could install it, I am just a dummy when it comes to the engineering side of it.

 

[GeorgeRa]

I would suggest to define your objectives for electrical system first, for example:

- 2 days on batteries only
- Solar charge capable to replace daily consumption in one day
- DC appliances and gadgets
- AC appliances and gadgets
- Will you need shore power?
- Why 1000W inverter? If inverter is only for PC or TV a 300W unit is much simpler and less expensive.

Even if you want to hire someone you still need your objectives well defined. If your system is simple enough with help of this forum you can do it yourself.

George.

 

[pedalingnowhere]

I would suggest to define your objectives for electrical system first, for example:

- 2 days on batteries only
- Solar charge capable to replace daily consumption in one day
- DC appliances and gadgets
- AC appliances and gadgets
- Will you need shore power?
- Why 1000W inverter? If inverter is only for PC or TV a 300W unit is much simpler and less expensive.

Even if you want to hire someone you still need your objectives well defined. If your system is simple enough with help of this forum you can do it yourself.

George.

Thanks George. I kind of did that in my head and have based the batteries and solar panel size on comparing it to other folks' uses and systems. I don't think we will need shore power although I would like to have an option to add it if necessary, unless this is a simple task. It is hard to say, but I think 2 or 3 days on battery, max. However, I think you are right about the inverter. Here is how it breaks down:

DC
- Vent fan (maxxifan)
- LED lights (probably 6 dome lights, maybe a couple more)
- USB charging (iPad, phone)
- Fridge (small 37q ARB)
- Espar D2 heater (eventually)

AC
- Charging a laptop quite a bit (I am a graphic designer/photographer and use it a lot)
- Fan at night more than likely (may be able to get a DC fan)
- Charging camera batteries (once per week maybe)
- Computer monitor and connected hard drives, etc (maybe 1 or 2 hours per day on average)

 

[GeorgeRa]

Good list, it is good to document it on paper.

DC
- Vent fan (maxxifan) 0.2-4A, 18 AWG wire, 10A fuse.
- LED lights (probably 6 dome lights, maybe a couple more) I have total of 10 lamps taking 3.6A – too bright emphasizing wrinkles, 2A should be OK, 20 AWG, 5A fuse.
- USB charging (iPad, phone) 2 USBs, 1A, 20 AWG wires, 3A fuse https://www.bluesea.com/products/1016/Dual_USB_Charger_Socket
- Fridge (small 37q ARB), running current 2.5A, 14 AWG (due to starting current) for 12VDC, fuse 10A
- Espar D2 heater (eventually) - running about 2-4A more with glow plugs on, 10AWG, 15A fuse.

AC
- Charging a laptop quite a bit (I am a graphic designer/photographer and use it a lot) 120W
- Fan at night more than likely (may be able to get a DC fan) - what is wrong with Maxxfun and appropriate opening to get focused cooling air in?
- Charging camera batteries (once per week maybe) 25W
- Computer monitor and connected hard drives, etc (maybe 1 or 2 hours per day on average) 100W
***************

I don’t think you need 1000W inverter, would suggest Mornigstar 300W which has a very low idle current. Later tomorrow I can help you sizing batteries and appropriate charger unless someone chimes in.

If you plan to camp with shore power available I would suggest incorporate it with the design.

 

[tgregg]

Anybody know someone who can do something like this in North Carolina?

Robert Morehead Design just south of Asheville

http://www.moreheaddesignlab.com/

 

[pedalingnowhere]

Robert Morehead Design just south of Asheville

http://www.moreheaddesignlab.com/

Thanks Tgregg. Unfortunately, that's about 6 hours away (I am in the far east part of the state... but thanks for the suggestion...

 

[pedalingnowhere]

Good list, it is good to document it on paper.

I don’t think you need 1000W inverter, would suggest Mornigstar 300W which has a very low idle current. Later tomorrow I can help you sizing batteries and appropriate charger unless someone chimes in.

If you plan to camp with shore power available I would suggest incorporate it with the design.

Thanks GeorgeRa. I also sourced a 600w inverter (incase we were ever to use a low watt toaster or something). Also, here is an updated drawing, but I am still clueless. I attached a PDF below as well...

electric-diagram.pdf

 

[pfflyer]

For my 600w inverter 0 wire gauge was suggested for under 6' runs. My battery ground is to the seat base bolt. You may need to remove some paint though.

 

[GeorgeRa]

Looks great, I have a few comments and it would be easier to have your file. Can you send .pptx or .dxf file to my email address. See PM for my email.

George.

 

[pedalingnowhere]

Looks great, I have a few comments and it would be easier to have your file. Can you send .pptx or .dxf file to my email address. See PM for my email.

George.[/QUOTE

Unfortunatwly I created it in adobe illustrator (I am a graphic artist by trade). So the pdf is the best I can do unless you have Illustrator... let me know.

 

[GeorgeRa]

Here are my comments:

200A breaker is OK, could use fuse - https://www.bluesea.com/products/7720/AMI___MIDI_Safety_Fuse_Block

Ground to seat frame – http://assets.bluesea.com/files/resources/wiring_diagram/ML-ACRs.jpg You need to find ground points, I think there is one under the driver seat. The ground connection is to operate the relay. See this document http://www.sprinter-rv.com/wp-content/uploads/2010/09/Aux-battery-retrofit-guideline-NCV3.pdf for connecting to starter battery.

Between the ground bolt on the seat and batteries you need to place a measuring shunt. Consider this http://www.victronenergy.com/upload/documents/Datasheet-BMV-700-series-EN.pdf Connection between the Victron’s shunt and display panel doesn’t require twisted cable, I don’t know about Tri Metric.

Switch – Yes

14 gauge marine wire, OK. It is simple formula to find wire gauge. Find out current flow such as: 600W Inverter / 12V = 50A; go to this table and find the AWG require for running distance - http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/American_wire_gauge

Other comments:

What I the connection between Tri-Metric and SunCharger?

Consider MPPT controller for your panel http://www.grapesolar.com/images/pdf/GS-S-160-Fab8.pdf http://www.homedepot.com/p/Grape-So...Back-up-Power-Systems-GS-S-160-Fab8/202959994
like this one - http://www.morningstarcorp.com/products/sunsaver-mppt/ MPPT makes high voltage useable versus PWM which chops it off.

600W toaster?, I though they are usually higher power.

Good luck.

George.

 

[pedalingnowhere]

For my 600w inverter 0 wire gauge was suggested for under 6' runs. My battery ground is to the seat base bolt. You may need to remove some paint though.

I had heard that as well for inverters. I was planning on the Samlex Kit with the 600w inverter, so I am assuming it will have properly sized wires: http://www.samlexamerica.com/products/ProductDetail.aspx?pid=90

 

[pedalingnowhere]

GeorgeRa, thanks for the detailed and thoughtful response! I really appreciate it; if you were in NC, I'd buy you lunch! I will adjust this drawing, but here are a few other piddly questions:

200A breaker is OK, could use fuse - https://www.bluesea.com/products/7720/AMI___MIDI_Safety_Fuse_Block

OK, the only reason I specced a breaker was I figured I wouldn't have to worry about extra fuses... but it seems like this one is a 'worst case' fuse? Is there any difference between a breaker and a fuse?

Between the ground bolt on the seat and batteries you need to place a measuring shunt. Consider this http://www.victronenergy.com/upload/documents/Datasheet-BMV-700-series-EN.pdf Connection between the Victron’s shunt and display panel doesn’t require twisted cable, I don’t know about Tri Metric.

So this would replace the Trimetric Monitor, correct? That's fine, I'd rather use one that someone recommends... I just added the Trimetric based on a conversation with a guy at AM Solar.

Switch – Yes

Is there a particular switch you'd recommend? And are there any other places in the system that would need some sort of switch?

14 gauge marine wire, OK. It is simple formula to find wire gauge. Find out current flow such as: 600W Inverter / 12V = 50A; go to this table and find the AWG require for running distance - http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/American_wire_gauge

I will give this a study. But for DC runs (LED lights, fan, usb chargers, etc.) 14 gauge is standard, right?

What I the connection between Tri-Metric and SunCharger?

I am not sure to be honest, the gentleman at AM Solar mentioned a wire that connects the two. But if the BMV-700 replaces it, I will adjust the plan.

Consider MPPT controller for your panel http://www.grapesolar.com/images/pdf/GS-S-160-Fab8.pdf http://www.homedepot.com/p/Grape-So...Back-up-Power-Systems-GS-S-160-Fab8/202959994
like this one - http://www.morningstarcorp.com/products/sunsaver-mppt/ MPPT makes high voltage useable versus PWM which chops it off.

This would replace the SunCharger, correct? Again, I am fine going with recommendations...

600W toaster?, I though they are usually higher power.

I ran across some low-wattage toaster oven and thought that it could be an option...

 

[Graphite Dave]

I ran across some low-wattage toaster oven and thought that it could be an option...

Brand? Model?

 

[pedalingnowhere]

Brand? Model?

Probably a piece of crap, but I just happened on it when I was trying to figure out wattage, so I figured there were probably other options. I still don't know if I could max out the load of a 600w inverter with a single 600w appliance:

Magic Chef 4-slice Toaster Oven

 

[Thanasis]

Consider this charge controller. It incorporates battery monitoring functionality. I have it and been very pleased with it.
http://www.solar-electric.com/midnite-solar-kid-mppt-solar-charge-controller-black.html

 

[Graphite Dave]

Probably a piece of crap, but I just happened on it when I was trying to figure out wattage, so I figured there were probably other options. I still don't know if I could max out the load of a 600w inverter with a single 600w appliance:

Magic Chef 4-slice Toaster Oven

600 watt toaster oven probably draws more than 600 watts. Need to check with a "kill-a-watt" meter. (HF for about $25.00). My 600 watt Proctor-Silex basic $50.00 600 watt microwave draws 1053 watts. My Magnum MMS1012 1000 watt inverter is into its surge capacity to run the micro. Originally I tried a 700 watt micro and that did not work due to overloaded inverter.

Always test appliances with the kill-a-watt meter to determine their actual watts.