Advanced RV's 4 Cyl vs 6 Cyl Tests

Davydd

Well-known member
Here is a Vimeo video of Advanced RV's 2014 Sprinter 4 cylinder vs 6 cylinder testing. This was a hill climb test that showed the 4 cylinder was just a half second slower getting up to 30 mph but 14.5 seconds slower getting to 60 mph. The testing was done with raw cargo vans not finished Bs. They'll be doing updates when available. They also said Mercedes expects 22% better fuel mileage and they will test that with finished Bs.

Performance Test: Mercedes-Benz 2014 Sprinter 4-Cylinder/7-Speed vs. 6-Cylinder/5-Speed
 

surlyoldbill

New member
I want to be able to race cars on the freeway in my RV, so I'm wondering if there is an option to achieve 4 second 0-60mph? I don't care about fuel consumption, I just want to know I can drive twice the speed limit everywhere I go.
 

Davydd

Well-known member
Having had both the V6 and the old I5 diesel I'd like to know if the new 4 cylinder can outperform the old I5 which was satisfactory for my Class B needs though the V6 was superior.
 

UKDude

New member
0-60mph in 35.8 seconds as opposed to 20.9 seconds with the 6 cylinder engine means overtaking slower vehicles will be hazardous if not impossible. And those figures are with an empty cargo van.
 

TooMuchHair

Active member
Thanks for posting this test Davydd. I am creeping towards gathering enough information to spec and order my new Sprinter, I have been waiting for something like this test to clear the fog in my brain deciding if I could be happy with the new I-4, 7 speed. I now know conclusively the answer....NO WAY!!! Given these preliminary results, by the time you load one of these down there is no way I could ever be happy, you will be locked to the right lane going up any type of grade, stuck behind the slowest of traffic. I am an ex truck driver that was about to be hypnotized by the magic of MB marketing hype, and a few posts on here citing impressive empty/level acceleration performance. When the only thing that really matters is climbing hills with a load on! Has anyone heard any rumors as to MB placing that 7 speed behind the V-6 in 2015? Only 5+years will reveal the "true" economy of the 4 cylinder choice. As many have stated on here, the effects of Gear choice/RPM/% of load etc, working that 4 too hard will likely cost more in $$fuel and PITA in the long run. Thanks to Advanced RV for doing/posting this test.
 

Davydd

Well-known member
I know the V6 is more than adequate and up to snuff. Being turbo it doesn't lose speed in the mountain passes and I've passed the V8 gas Bs with ease. The old 5 cylinder was up to the task in the Rocky Mountains as well. So, I need to really know how the 4 cylinder compares to the old 5 cylinder. If equal or better then I would have no problems with a 4 cylinder.

I had an overall average of 22.5 mpg covering 61,000 miles with the old 5 cylinder. I have an overall average at 56,000 miles of 18.4 mpg with the V6. If the 22% increase holds then I could go back up to 22.5 mpg and those great 500 plus mile driving ranges. 608 miles on a fill-up was my best with the 5 cylinder.
 

bobojay

New member
Glad to see Advanced getting more aggressive with their videos, and also a bit more professional. This discrepancy in the 0-60 time really surprises me being that some of the 4cyl owners on this forum that have them really like them so far at least as far as the mileage goes.
 

Diamondsea

New member
Does anyone know if the rear axle ratios are the same with both engines? When ordering are there options for the rear ratios on the 2500s and 3500s with either engine?
 

sailquik

Well-known member
Diamondsea,
Not sure if the 2014 Sprinters they tested both have the same 4.182 : 1 rear gear, but the std. rear gear for 516 and 519 (3500's in the USA) Sprinters is the 4.182 and AFAIK any options would be very hard to order.
Having > 100k miles in NCV3 Sprinters with the OM-642 V6 5 speed NAG-1 (5G-Tronic) and now driving a 2014 170" wb 4 cylinder dual stage turbo OM-651 with the 7 speed I would say something is funny about this test.
I suspect that they just floored the pedal and ran the revs up and let it shift (or not) automatically.
I'd love to drive to where ever they are and use the same hill to run the same test with my 2014.
Just like the 5 cylinder T1N Sprinters, and the V6 NCV3 Sprinters, you have to "pedal" these engines to get the transmissions to shift correctly and quickly @ ~3200-3400.
Otherwise the transmission hangs at near redline and you lose a bunch of time.
Neither engine is at it's max. beyond ~3600 RPM, but the OM-651 especially gets more of it's torque and acceleration @ 1800-2600.
I'll bet they didn't do that.
Manually shifting you could probably beat their times significantly with either van.
I have no issues getting to 60 mph quickly with the OM-651/7speed (7G-Tronicz).
I'm pretty sure their test is somehow flawed.
Techno Experts that are neither great technically nor expert....GRRRRRRRRRRR!
Roger
 
Last edited:

Davydd

Well-known member
Sailquik,

It may have been conducted as you said, pedal to the floor, but if both were driven the exact same way it wouldn't be flawed. It was just one comparison of one test. Obviously more horsepower and more torque is going to outperform. I'll be more interested in how finished Class Bs compare and I especially would still like to know how the 4 cylinder Class Bs compares to the old 5 cylinder Class Bs. If equal or better it becomes a no-brainer for me. I rarely travel over 65 mph, rarely pass anyone and my biggest concern is freeway ramp entrances where I like to be up to speed entering the freeway.
 

sailquik

Well-known member
Davydd:
Difference of opinion here, but since the 4 cylinder has to shift a couple more times (if in fact they got it up to top gear at all which is completely unnecessary to achieve 60 mph in either Sprinter) then the shift delay could account for some of the difference in 0-60 MPH speed.
If you don't "pedal" a Sprinter, you won't get it's full acceleration potential.
If you "pedal it" @ ~ 3000-3200 RPM, it shifts up decisively and quickly.
If you just run it up to redline, it takes the ECM/TCM some time to decide to upshift and that's time when you are not really accelerating.
I've seen some magazine 0-60 tests and they were much closer than the numbers these guys are putting out.
Seems like they want to sell more of the V6 upgrades, when the OM-651 4 cylinder dual turbo 7 speed (7G-Tronic)is easily up to the task if you drive it correctly.
My guess is that the folks @ Advanced build them, they do not drive them on a daily basis, so they probably are pretty clueless on what gives Sprinter vans the best mileage and performance.
You seem to be pretty hooked in with them.
You set up a challenge, I'll be there.
Bet I can easily beat their times in BOTH Sprinters.
Roger
 

Davydd

Well-known member
Sailquik,

I'm not hooked in with them but I have visited their factory. In fact I was the first visitor just because I am a first responder by nature. The owners are experienced and avid Class B tourers and had owned a Pleasure-way Plateau and Great West Van Legend (coincidentally like me) before striking out to build a better B in their minds. They drive their product to RV rallies and shows. I would not say they were clueless.

I don't think they want to sell more V6s. Their build model is you decide what van you want and then they convert it. They, in this effort, are only attempting to answer inquiries. I like that approach better than say Winnebago where buyers of ERAs don't seem to even know ahead of time if they are getting a 2013 or 2014 chassis model and probably don't know what Mercedes Benz options Winnebago is buying.

My concern is the 4 cylinder is a new unproven engine pushing a Class B in America. Back in the 2007 M-B model year switchover to the NCV3 every converter but one (Pleasure-way I believe) initially offered their conversions on the 2500 chassis the same as they were with the older T1N. It quickly proved inadequate to the task yet it took a couple of years for some to come to that realization. Will the 4 cylinder prove to be adequate or not for a fully converted Class B? The V6 is only a $910 upgrade on the M-B website but there is that possible 4 mpg difference which I like for the convenient driving range between fills more than the cost difference. Like I mentioned earlier, I can judge maybe better if I knew how it stacked up to the old 5 cylinder Class B I drove with no qualms.
 

Boxster1971

2012 Sprinter 3500 Ext
... My concern is the 4 cylinder is a new unproven engine pushing a Class B in America. ...
The 4 cylinder diesel is not a new engine, it has been around as long as the V-6 diesel. It's just new to the NAFTA market.
 

Diamondsea

New member
This has become an interesting discussion. My guess is that the test was with two Sprinters that were not broken in. I would be reluctant to run such a pedal-to-the-metal test with a new engine. I have an Advanced RV V-6 with over 3000 miles and will be in Florida at the Tampa show and Advanced will be there with the 4-cylinder. Driving from the factory to Florida should break in their engine. Perhaps we could have a repeat test in Florida. Are their any hills there!

SailQuik -- I have an impression you may drive up my way in southeastern VA and if so we could do our own test. I live a few minutes from West Point. I can be reached by private message.
 

sailquik

Well-known member
pattonsr,
Yeah, that was my first question and suggestion when I got the 2014.
Several of the sporty cars and sporty sedans in the Sun Motor Cars main showroom had paddle shifters on the
steering wheels..... I want that in my new Sprinter...unfortunately, not an option that MB offers in Sprinters I
guess.
Pedal it means watch the tach, and when it gets to 3000-3200 RPM lift off the throttle just enough to get a quick upshift from the auto gearbox. You can do this manually, but I believe the TCM/ECM can do it faster if you quickly reduce the % LOD (on the Scan Gauge II) enough so the electronics does a quick upshift.
It's a drag race term.
In high horsepower or fuel burning drag cars, if you don't set the clutches right, you can get wheel spin and "go up in smoke". Pedaling it means to back off the throttle just enough to restore full traction to the back tires.
I'm using the term in pretty much the same way, except I'm not too worried about my Sprinter going "up in smoke" from too much horsepower, but if you leave the throttle wide open, it often takes forever with the engine at redline or beyond, to get an upshift.
The idea is to get the engine up a little below max. horsepower, "lift off the pedal/pedal it" just enough to induce an upshift, and have the engine make the shift right around 3600 RPM (max. power for the OM-642 V6 and the Om-651 4 cyl 2 stage turbo.
Roger
 
Last edited:

MintySprinty

New member
0-60mph in 35.8 seconds as opposed to 20.9 seconds with the 6 cylinder engine means overtaking slower vehicles will be hazardous if not impossible. And those figures are with an empty cargo van.
http://www.trucktrend.com/roadtests/van/163_1311_2014_mercedes_benz_sprinter_2500_first_test/ :
Despite the difference in power -- the inline-four puts out 27 fewer hp and 59 lb-ft less -- there is plenty of power, and anyone spending day after day making deliveries would be happy with the power delivery. The seven-speed helps make the power discrepancy less noticeable. At the track, the four-cylinder van accelerated to 60 mph in 12.6 seconds and finished the quarter mile in 18.8 seconds at 70.9 mph. What is truly impressive about these numbers is that they really aren't that far off from those of the V-6-powered van, which hit 60 in 12.4 seconds and ran the quarter in 18.7 seconds at 71.8 mph. That also makes us wonder what the V-6 could do backed by the seven-speed automatic.
 

sailquik

Well-known member
Thanks MintySprinty,
I was going to go looking for those magazine tests.
The hill that Advanced RV used to test the 2 Sprinters on must be some seriously steep hill to nearly triple the 0-60 time from 12.6 seconds to 35.8 seconds.
As I said there is something not quite right about the numbers Advanced RV is putting out.
It seems that on a drag strip, with timing lights and many passes down the strip to give enough data to provide data consistency to make a conclusion about each engine, that the new OM-651 2 stage turbo 2.1 liter is very nearly as fast, both 0-60 (within 0.2 seconds) and also at the end of the 1/4 mile (0.9 MPH).
That's a lot more like what I've experienced with the new 2014 OM-651/7 speed in a 170" wb 516/3500 DRW Cargo Sprinter with the 4.182:1 Rear end ratio.
Roger
 
Last edited:

Davydd

Well-known member
The 4 cylinder diesel is not a new engine, it has been around as long as the V-6 diesel. It's just new to the NAFTA market.
I'm aware the engine is not new, but there still is no proven example of one pushing a fully converted, tanks loaded Class B RV across the Rocky Mountains at highway speeds. I'm not aware of any on the market yet that anyone has had real experience in that situation. So far, besides opinion, this test by Advanced RV with apparently empty cargo vans is the only 4 cylinder to 6 cylinder test under the same circumstances I had heard of, flawed or not.
 

bobojay

New member
One could argue that the truck trends article is flawed because of the 500lb difference in weight. I understand what Sailquik is saying about the pedal lift. I figured this out on our first Sprinter being an old mid 60ish drag racer. It does make a difference for sure.
I thought the 4cyl wasn't new to NAFTA, thinking it was being used also in some or one other MB SUV?

DavyDD, I don't think, knowing your driving style, that you would go wrong with the 4cyl. It'll be interesting talking to Advanced Mike at the B rally next May about this issue....
 
Last edited:

Top Bottom