Anyone using Nitrogen in their tires ?

loredo_sprinter

New member
I'm a shuttle driver so therefore I've got a bunch of potential butt meters :rad: where do I get nitrogen for my Sprinter here in San Diego? Discount tires doesn't have it or even know of where to get it, the dealer doesn't even have a clue.... Thanking you in advance

Jules
 

BULBASOR

Active member
Ha Ha ha HA :laughing: I just read this post and I'm still rollong over the "BUTT-O-METER", that's great!

I wonder if Altered Sprinter or Seek have BUTT-O-METERS in thier Sprinters?

Anyway, is answer to the original thread = "WHO HAS NITROGEN IN THIER TIRES?"

BULBASOR does! I do not have the slightest idea why they put nitrogen in BULBASORS tire but they have had that stuff in there since day one. I have no clue why. The only reason I found out was because right after I got BULBASOR we hit a deer and the dealer charges the insurance company for nitrogen. I asked them what was that for? (I thought it was the A/C or somthing). The dealer told me it was for the tires - go figure.

By the way SUBA, I DO have a degre in psychology (BABS) Behavioral Science Degree. Really quite worthless, but in my limited capacity I think you and your BUTT-O-METER are not completly wacky but we will wait to hear from the real trained "hot air" scientist's before passing judgement on your delicate instrument there.:bounce:
 

mobileoilchange

New member
bulbasor,
nitrogen helps your tires run cooler, last longer, keeps the psi more stable, improved fuel mileage and handling. the molecules in nitrogen are larger then oxygen. BUT you must still check tire pressure, but to keep the nitrogen 100% you should not add compressed air. anyone that sells nitrogen can check the purity of the nitrogen in your tires. its best not to add compressed air to get the full effects of the nitrogen.
 

Aircraft Wrench

New member
Suba,

Being a vibration guy...

I will attach an accleromter to the pilots seat frame and get some data on a "flight to/from DLH"....then I will check the same rout after a N2 event....

Just for you and the "Buttom-eter"

Best,

Wrencher
 

BULBASOR

Active member
I do not put any air in the tires, and I must admit I'm really bad and I never check the pressure. Can you provide NITROGEN for peoples tires when you do the oil? Is it somthing that can be part of the normal service? I guess my dealer keeps the NITROGEN in the tires because they told me that's what they put in and they always give me this check sheet every time I visit that shows all the stuff they checked - PSI, brake thickness, oil, water, brake fluid, differential fluid, tranny fluid, along with the regular check on the belts and hoses and stuff. They do all this every time I go in.

I looked at the spec sheet on the tires and I'm confused why anyone was making fun of Suba for running 80PSI in his tires? Is that the wrong PSI?
Maybe someday I will check the pressure on my tires - for now I just look at them and if they are round on all sides I figure everything is good, (no flat parts).
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sikwan

06 Tin Can
I will attach an accleromter to the pilots seat frame and get some data on a "flight to/from DLH"....then I will check the same rout after a N2 event....
This will be interesting. :drool:

Is that the wrong PSI?
80psi is the correct rating for the tire, but if you look at the Sprinter manufacturer plate it recommends (if I remember correctly) 55psi front and 60-80psi rear depending on load.

I have those tires too (oem actually) and I had them at 50psi for comfort. I bumped all four of them up to 60psi and it's not that bad, but I can feel (slightly) a difference in bumpyness. I can also feel every groove in the road with the front at 60psi. Maybe that's why 55psi is recommended psi.
 

tegimr

2003 Pass 140 289000 mile
I'm just wondering how and how often a butt-o-meter gets calibrated, and if the results are scaled metric or English. I'm pretty certain that the output is not MODBUS or DH1 compatible.


:lol:
 

Don Horner

2012 Unity IB
Where I disagree with you is over your assertion that it's physically impossible to have a tire 100 % inflated with N2 unless it is mounted in a 100 % N2 environment. Keep in mind that 100 % N2 may not even exist...
You are making my point -- if it doesn't exist, it's impossible to have it inside your tires.

... 99 % N2 is considered VERY pure. The reason I disagree with your statement, is because I've read about some N2 sellers which hook up a vacuum to the valve stem to purge all traces of air...
And, therein lies the proof. It is physically impossible to pull a 100% vacuum. Therefore, it is physically impossible to purge 100% of the air. Therefore, it is physically impossible to have 100% Nitrogen.

Once again, due to my (very) checkered past, I can back this up with actual experience. Before I retired, I operated a business that, among other things, dispensed LP Gas into cylinders. Because we also did LP gas installations, I went ahead and got Florida's highest LP Gas license rating, a "601" license, which required extensive education and exams, as well as practical experience. I operated that business for 10 years.

Part of the process of filling a new LP gas cylinder is purging as much air as possible and replacing it with as close to 100% propane as possible. There are two accepted ways to do it -- put a small amount of propane into the cylinder, which,being heavier than air, goes to the bottom of the cylinder and forces the air to the top, near the valve, then open the valve and let the propane push out the air. Doing this 5 or 6 times will result in about a 98% propane mix inside the cylinder. However, the advent of the OPD (Overfill Protection Device) valves on cylinders of 40# capacity and smaller made it very difficult to quickly purge in this method. Therefore, I installed a vacuum purge, similar to the one the tire dealers are using. I used a vacuum pump to remove as much air as possible, then closed that valve to hold the vacuum and opened a valve to introduce propane. The results were the same as manually purging -- about 98% or so propane.

If you think about it, it can't get any better -- the closer one comes to a full vacuum, the more likely it is that the vessel will collapse, unless it is specifically constructed to resist the pressure on the outside of the vessel caused by the vacuum. In other words, trying to pull a 100% vacuum on a tire would cause the tire to collapse.

Now, as far as recommending a different medium to fill a tire, I can tell you with absolute certainty what DOES work. On my New Holland tractor, I have purged much of the air and filled the tires with water. This provides the extra weight to help compensate for the weight in the front end loader and keeps the tractor from tipping over. I use a special valve that bleeds the air from the tire as the water is inserted (via a garden hose and the special valve). However, I only end up with about 80% or so water -- it's necessary to keep some air in the tires. I can use water because I'm in Florida; tractor owners in Northern climes use calcium chloride, antifreeze or -- believe it or not -- beet juice to keep their tires from freezing.
 

mobileoilchange

New member
not all dealers or service stations offer Nitrogen.
The car manufacture post the recommended tire psi on the lable of the vehicle telling you to proper tire psi. by putting more psi into the tires will help rolling resistance, but may also decrease the tires wear life "depending" on the loads the driver carries.

The psi reading that is "on the tire" is the max allowed psi the tire manufacture recommends.

For example, MB may say 55psi front, 80psi rear. assuming that you have the same size, brand, model of tires on all 4 corners you may "increase" the front psi up to 80psi. but your ride quality may be effected and the tire wear may increase.

to much tire psi will wear the center of the tires out faster, and to little psi will wear the outter edges. again it depends on the loads you have.

Check the load range of your tires. you should have a load range of "E" most 3/4 and 1 ton trucks and vans do.

some 1/2 ton and 3/4 ton vans and trucks may have a load range of "D" and something like mid size cars and mini trucks "rangers,s10,dakotas etc" may have a load range tire of "C-B-A"

if you find a local shop that offeres Nitrogen, have them test the purity of the nitrogen in your tires, all it is, is a tire psi type meter that simply gets depressed onto the valve stem and will tell the amount of nitrogen in your tires. fast, simple and easy.

i agree with Don, you CAN NOT have 100% nitrogen, even if you are mounting a brand new tire onto a rim, there is still oxygen inside the tire. its impossible to remove 100% of it and to have 100% nitrogen. The only way you may be able to do it would be to have a bleeder valve across the tire fill valve to bleed off the oxygen as the tires being filled with Nitrogen. but why? thats a waste. and 99% is good enough!

theres about 78-80% of nitrogen in the air we breath. so 99% in your tires is **** good.
 

bc339

New member
After I finish the instrumentation and install some three axis accelerometers, I'll compare the data with Aircraft Wrench.
Bruce
 

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Aircraft Wrench

New member
Bruce,

Nice stuff!

How may channels are you acquiring?

This sprinter stuff is using my slow speed single channel unit......and a rough road!

Best!

Jim
 

bc339

New member
Over 800, 98 for load and strain, 139 for vibration and acoustic. Plus you can watch movies. No HBO or Showtime, though.
We may also want to apply the General Gas Law to this and also compare density of nitrogen versus air.
Bruce
 

Higgybaby

New member
I know what you're thinking... if nitrogen can make your ass twitch, why not up the ante to helium for some serious pleasure?

Personally, I've stayed away from helium for 2 reasons; first, it's expensive and (B) for fear that I might be too positively buoyant and too light, especially in the front end. The mileage gain (due to the lighter vehicle, obviously) would be offset by the weight of the ground effects package I'd need to add just to keep things on the road.

I've been experimenting with a special gaseous blend (78% N2/ 21% O2) which we've dubbed "The Jesus Mix" and have had phenominal results. The secret is in the trace elements, which I like to keep at around 1%, give or take. I realize the minute amounts of methane and hydrogen in the presense of a strong oxidizer (like oxygen) could lead to a Hindenburg-type situation but I'll admit I'm a bit of risk-taker when it comes to performance. Sure, I have nightmares about my tires cooking-off while I'm drifting my Sprinter but as the saying goes, "you only live once".
 

Suba

New member
Wow, is this thread still going : ) I've read the latest posts and I must say they are veryyyyyy interesting. Maybe I can address a few of them.

Talking horse, could you be a bit more specific ? Are you referring to me ? What info are you concerned about ? btw, I was in a hurry typing the post you quoted, and I misspelled Noble. Sorry (!)

loredo......you should be able to find N2 somewhere in your area. Keep looking.

Bulbasor......I'm glad you got a yuck about my butt-o-meter. Didn't you get one with your Sprinter ??? btw, you may not find me completely wacky ( yet ) but do you find me the least bit attractive : )

Mobileoilchange.......you are EXACTLY right.

Aircraft Wrench....I hereby dub you Sir Peabody, trusted knight of my round table. While I was away, I hope you did your best to protect the castle. Remember to always keep your wit sharp ( and your arrows ) for the enemy is not far. I had hoped to celebrate my return with news of victory ( with a hooters girl : ) but she got away : ( Here's to you.....Sir Peabody.......and Long Live The Queen (!) :cheers:

Bulbasor * again * You have Nitrogen in your tires (!) Wooo Hoooo (!)

sikwan.........yes higher PSI equates to higher Butt -O-Meter reading (!) Try 80 in all four tires sometime ( without N2 ) ouch. btw, I think 55 in the front is recommended for comfort.

tegimr.........A butt -o- meter should be calibrated at every oil change, or sooner depending on who's in the left seat : )

Don Horner.......what can I say : ) :bash: Let's just stay away from the 100 % of anything. Let's talk in real world numbers. I misread your quote about it being impossible to have 100 % inflation with Nitrogen. You'll never even approach 99 % at a filling station. I think I have about 90 % N2 in my tires......plenty, but don't top off with air. You'll have to start all over ( I found out the hard way )

Higgybaby...... Nitrogen CAN make your ass twitch (!) btw, wasn't the coating on the skin of the Hindenburg the cause of the disaster ? I though the composition of the reflective coating was something similar to modern day rocket fuel.
 

BULBASOR

Active member
:popcorn: Can't wait to find out the results of the BUTT-O-METER calibration test from the airplane test pilot guys!
 

glas1700

Member
I've just come into this discussion today and find it very interesting, although I really don't have any experience using N2 in tires. I do, however, want to clear up one misconception that I read about tire pressure. On a regular automobile tire, the pressure shown on the sidewall is the maximum cold inflation pressure for the tire.

Truck tires use a completely different method based on the load rating of the tire. The pressure shown on the sidewall is the pressure required to carry the rated load of the tire, not the maximum inflation pressure. The tire will safely withstand a higher cold inflation pressure, so adding 5 psi over what is shown the sidewall will assure you that the tire will safely carry its maximum load as it slowly deflates over time. This, of course, is dependent on the ability of the wheel to handle the same pressure.

Byron
 

Aircraft Wrench

New member
Suba et all...

Accelerometer installed and checked...vibe level is low amplitude and freq ESPECIALLY when it is snowing:shifty: thus no good data on this last trip....Bruce probably has set up an instrument....it would be great to see his data!

I have a 16 channel IOTech wavebook besides my standard single channel vibe unit.

Bruce, I am going on a trip South in the van for work...the Queen Mother and 1st Princess are coming along (as well as the royal mutt) I wish I had time to see your set up.....:bow:

Best,

Jimmy
 

Suba

New member
Hey guys,

I would like to say that I'm sorry if I offended anyone in this thread. I thought that I was posting some useful information. I never dreamed it would have taken the turns that it did. Sometimes things just don't go the way they should.

btw, I now have my front tires @ 70 cold psi. That's much better than 80.

:cheers:
 

Jrmorgan

Member
I'm wondering if anyone is using pure nitrogen in their tires. I've got pure nitrogen in mine. Ok, I know one atmosphere of regular air still exists in each tire. My opinion is that nitrogen makes all the difference in the world with ride quality. The ride is softer and not harsh at all. Keep in mine I have 80 psi in all four tires. With regular air, driving was an exercise in pain. With nitrogen.......sweet nitrogen, the ride is soft and the bumps and thumps are muted. I also understand there may be a small fuel savings when using nitrogen filled tires.

I would like to say that I'm sorry if I offended anyone in this thread. I thought that I was posting some useful information. I never dreamed it would have taken the turns that it did. Sometimes things just don't go the way they should.

btw, I now have my front tires @ 70 cold psi. That's much better than 80.
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Interesting, Lot of people have commented on Suba's findings. I see that physics have changed since I was at school. Seems now that if all things being equal, in a given volume, the pressure exerted by deferent gases at the same pressure relative to atmospheric pressures can be different. I see none have come forth with a way of describing in scientific terms how the "Butt-O- Meter" works or the scale it uses so we can all see it.

I also found it interesting to find that the gentleman stated that starting at 80 pounds he had a smooth ride.
He then reports back the ride was smoother at 70 pounds. I wait with baited breath when he tries tire pressures of around 55 pounds. Of course I would like to know at what speed this phenomena appears since the gentleman also runs some aerodynamic devices on the back of Sprinter. Maybe the angle of these devices adds some lift to the front end?

:thinking:
 

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