2010 3500 RV build

OrioN

2008 2500 170" EXT
Someone had a problem with black water coming up through their shower pan when they came to a stop due to water movement in the tank. Can not clearly see where your inlets are located but it does appear they are on the top which allows the above problem to occur when you come to a fast stop. Less of a problem from acceleration rushing water to the back of tank since a Sprinter does not exactly snap your head back at full throttle. I do not have a black water tank but do have a gray water tank. To prevent back flow I had the sink inlet enter the tank low as possible on the back end of the tank and have the shower drain enter the tank at the center again as low as possible on the tank side. No openings on the front half of the tank. By entering low on the tank side a water trap on the sink and shower drains are not required. As soon as there is 1" of water in the tank, a trap is created to seal off the gas from the drains. The low inlet locations keeps the drains from being exposed to the water wave. Seems to have worked since I have not observed any smells or had any backflow up through the shower drain.
Here is an example (my soon to be build) of a grey tank plus a 'p-trap on shower floor/drain' that would spew water like a whale when braking if the tank was not baffled correctly. All my tanks are vented through the roof. The left tank is Black, and connected to a top tank built into the shower/toilet combo pan, and is connect to a vent (see upper left MJ/Fernco). The right grey tank, is hosed to a holding tank under the galley sink, which is then vented up the galley/slide-out wall.









.
 
Last edited:

hein

Van Guru
Glide-Rite was installed by Upscale Automotive.
Let's focus on the tank design for now.

To do:
1. Make sure there is room for p-traps. The shower drain should have a generous area for sand to collect and be cleaned out.
2. Add ports for vents. Hopefully route those to the roof inside the D-pillars.
3. Design supports for the front of the tank.
4. Decide if additional baffles will be needed.
5. Detail the drain plumbing with valves.
 
Last edited:

OrioN

2008 2500 170" EXT
Glide-Rite was installed by Upscale Automotive.
Let's focus on the tank design for now.

To do:
1. Make sure there is room for p-traps. The shower drain should have a generous area for sand to collect and be cleaned out.
2. Add ports for vents. Hopefully route those to the roof inside the D-pillars.
3. Design supports for the front of the tank.
4. Decide if additional baffles will be needed.
5. Detail the drain plumbing with valves.
Baffling serves to keep the water from coursing through the lines, and eliminate thumping or hamming noises in the tank. However, a 'check valve' too can eliminate the former quite effectively.

However, venting of the tanks is very important, especially the Black, as heat and gases can create pressure that burps and damage toilet bowl blade seals. Plus, 'rv' style waste valves will leak under pressure.
 
Last edited:

GeorgeRa

2013 Sprinter DIY 144WB, Portland OR
...........................
However, venting of the tanks is very important, especially the Black, as heat and gases can create pressure that burps and damage toilet bowl blade seals. And, 'rv' style waste valves will then leak.
RV black water tank vents are usually 1.5" diameter. Besides reducing the pressure they allow for oxygen to flow inside the tank. Oxygen is a key factor in digesting process to minimize odor.

George.
 

OrioN

2008 2500 170" EXT
Glide-Rite was installed by Upscale Automotive.
Let's focus on the tank design for now.

To do:
1. Make sure there is room for p-traps. The shower drain should have a generous area for sand to collect and be cleaned out.
2. Add ports for vents. Hopefully route those to the roof inside the D-pillars.
3. Design supports for the front of the tank.
4. Decide if additional baffles will be needed.
5. Detail the drain plumbing with valves.
On the off chance you are using ABS/PVC/Copper:

http://www.catalogds.com/db/service?domain=mueller&command=browse&category=root
 

OrioN

2008 2500 170" EXT
Glide-Rite was installed by Upscale Automotive.
Let's focus on the tank design for now.

To do:
1. Make sure there is room for p-traps. The shower drain should have a generous area for sand to collect and be cleaned out.
2. Add ports for vents. Hopefully route those to the roof inside the D-pillars.
3. Design supports for the front of the tank.
4. Decide if additional baffles will be needed.
5. Detail the drain plumbing with valves.
6. Senders: http://www.wemausa.com/sensors/coverSensors.shtml
 

GeorgeRa

2013 Sprinter DIY 144WB, Portland OR
I have a Seeview guage. They won't work stuck on the side of a metal tank. Perhaps their sender would work if it was placed inside a PVC tube dropped into the tank from the top.
Their sensors are flex circuits with soldered IC. I doubt they could take much bending if you want to place them inside a PVC tube - http://www.rvgauge.com/images/multibus_wiring.jpg

WEMA has a holding tank sensor with shroud to prevent solids to deposit on the reed tube. http://www.wemausa.com/sensors/level-HoldingTank.shtml#.Ush7bPRDu6M

This is another way to monitor the tank, due to its location perhaps it has the best chance to stay clean enough from solid residue in the black water tank. http://www.katzconcepts.com/about-ultrasonic-tank-monitors.html

I would suggest to build spray fitting(s) in key location(s) to keep the black water tank and level sensor clean, even externally mounted capacitive sensors will give erroneous reading if a tank is too dirty. http://www.campingworld.com/shoppin...-remote-connection/28091#sthash.ArjdA5Vh.dpbs
http://www.mcmaster.com/#rotating-spray-nozzles/=q3x0eh
http://www.polywest.ca/rotacraft-tank-rinse-nozzles/

George.
 

OldWest

2004 T1N Westfalia
Great thread. Have not read every post, so may be repeating.

1. HepVo drains have been mentioned here before. Save space versus P traps. No need for air admittance valves in plumbing.

2. Tank air vents may be consolidated together to one vertical airstack pipe. Definitely look at 360 siphon vent--a must have (really works). Have had campervan for 9 years and finally replaced top vent with this a couple months ago--can now drive with front windows open and not worry about negative air pressure and smells.

Possible to put air vent holes on top side of tank(s) just in case need to repair in future (so don't have to drop tank(s)?

Believe European gray tanks may have an overflow tube just in case gray water tank gets too full (maybe not legal is USA?). Tube goes up then down (upside down U) and is lower than shower pan drain. Europeans usually have cassette toilets and no black tanks.

3. Tank baffles--thought were also in place to reduce water weight shifting around.

4. Typical drain Valterra valves may need periodic replacement so need access. Some folks have looked into other type of drain valves.

5. Macerator?
 

OldWest

2004 T1N Westfalia
Also, black tank capacity seems big compared to gray water capacity? Ideally, black and gray tanks should be filling up so need to be emptied at same time rather than have extra capacity.

Maybe a way to funnel/drain gray water into black tank if gray fills up faster but still have black capacity.

Some manufacturers have single combined black/gray, but prevents just gray water discharge where legal.
 

hein

Van Guru
Thanks for all the tank resources and design considerations. I'll get back on the CAD in a few days and make some updates.

It was nice today so I crawled under the van to clearance some gussets for the 6V battery to battery series jumper. There are some slightly shorter batteries with less capacity that would not require this.

Below. The jumper test fitted to get a location. The 4/0 cable is routed in electrical insulating sleeving from MMC and wrapped with spit loom. EDIT: this is not the final cable. It ended up needing to be quite a bit shorter for an almost straight run between the terminals.



Gusset before: (This is actually on the other side than for the tray above. The layout is symetrical about the van centerline.)


Gusset after. Will be putting some edge guard around the opening.


I should be able to lift the tray most of of the way up, make the connections and then bring the tray up the remaining distance and bolt it in place.

Sun was shining on the front of the van so decided to mod the horn. Bye Bye Beep Beep. I had a small private junkyard of S-series Saturn cars some time ago. I've owned many and drive a 95 SW2 as a beater. Great little cars and I have a barn full of used parts. Probably 20 or more horns. Now the Sprinter sounds like a couple of Saturn drivers having a honk-off.

Wiring. I cut off the OEM plug and spliced in pigtails that I salvaged with the horns. Same style weather tight connectors.


Install. Lighter bar is the OEM bracket. Black bar is 3/4 x 1/8 X 5 with holes at the ends on 4 1/8" centers.


And while the grill was off; painted the emblems.
 
Last edited:

hein

Van Guru
Blue batteries FTW!

Edit...
Looking at my own pictures has me rethinking my wire routing to reduce
cable lengths. Should go back to the CAD on this but probably will just
cut the cables to fit. Then update the model to document the changes.
 
Last edited:

hein

Van Guru
Southco samples came today so I was able to finalize the CAD model for the cabinets and make a sample assembly to verify some tool paths and see how things are going to look. The front of the door is inset 1/10".



Below. A couple of days ago I machined the bath rear wall and installed it completely with VHB tape. It fit inside the rear door frame perfectly. (CAD win!) The black vent will connect to an exhaust in the back door via a 3" bilge fan. The control panel is for the toilet. I plan on reworking the D pillar corner with some new pieces that will cover the chassis.



The final wall that will enclose the bath comes forward from the wall shown above. I machined, sanded and painted it today. It also fits perfectly and I can't wait to get it installed. There will also be a lintel and a threshold piece to finish off the door opening.

 
Last edited:

hein

Van Guru
After weighing the wall panel (its likely the heaviest wall piece), I decided to core the back to reduce weight. It went from 18lbs to under 14. There will be a thin grey panel that will go on the inside to finish off the bath and provide a lip around the door jamb. So this will end up being a hollow wall.

First some CNC programming:


Run time:


Below. VHB tape for installing the wall piece. 3M makes a primer but I have found that a coat of contact cement helps seal porous surfaces and improve the bond. This picture shows the length gained by placing the bath back wall in the rear door opening. The D shaped hole is a clean out where the shower pan/floor will extend over the rear threshold so sand can be swept out of the bath.


Wall installed and clamped to let the VHB take a firm hold. I have some more clamps and posts (pushing from the opposite side of the door frame) on there now. -and the heat on.
 
Last edited:

OrioN

2008 2500 170" EXT
After weighing the wall panel (its likely the heaviest wall piece), I decided to core the back to reduce weight. It went from 18lbs to under 14.
That 4lbs... may end up saving you from having to do another build... like me. :bash:


PS... very 'inspirational' work!!
 

Top Bottom