No start

Marty

Marty
Hope you guys can help us.
Our 3500 2003 started shifting into high gears at too low of speed. ie. 5th gear by 20mph. I stopped it one day to see if the thing would 'reboot' and then it would not start at all. It would turn over fine just no fire. Every so often it seemed to try to fire but then drop back to just cranking.
With the last gasp of the battery it started and we drove back home to a mechanic that I know (he is good but just has no experience with Sprinters) He finaly got a computer to read the codes and found the camshaft position sensor bad and replaced it but now it still wont start at all.
He says it's not getting fuel to the injector pump. He also wonders about some info he got which says the injector pressure is 23,000 PSI????

Any thoughts?:idunno::idunno:

Thanks,

Marty
 

sikwan

06 T1N Can
In this thread...

https://sprinter-source.com/forums/showthread.php?t=2318

...there are pictures of the fuel filter. It's on the driver's side of the engine. It's not the same as the 2003, but it's very similar.

Are you getting fuel before and after the filter?

If so, then the fuel after the filter goes to the high pressure pump that pressurizes the fuel into the common rail that feeds the injectors. 23,000 psi sounds about right.

You may be getting air into the system. :idunno:
 

Marty

Marty
In this thread...

https://sprinter-source.com/forums/showthread.php?t=2318

...there are pictures of the fuel filter. It's on the driver's side of the engine. It's not the same as the 2003, but it's very similar.

Are you getting fuel before and after the filter?

If so, then the fuel after the filter goes to the high pressure pump that pressurizes the fuel into the common rail that feeds the injectors. 23,000 psi sounds about right.

You may be getting air into the system. :idunno:
They changed the filter and I assume the fuel is getting through it. He showed me a 'lift' pump located below and right of the injector pump and later said on the phone he could see fuel in the slightly clear tube from it.

Marty
 

Aircraft Wrench

New member
In this thread...

https://sprinter-source.com/forums/showthread.php?t=2318

...there are pictures of the fuel filter. It's on the driver's side of the engine. It's not the same as the 2003, but it's very similar.

Are you getting fuel before and after the filter?

If so, then the fuel after the filter goes to the high pressure pump that pressurizes the fuel into the common rail that feeds the injectors. 23,000 psi sounds about right.

You may be getting air into the system. :idunno:
Sik,

23,00 psi would probably cause instant combustion....probably the measure is 2,300 psi maybe even 230 psi:thinking::thinking:
 

sikwan

06 T1N Can
23,00 psi would probably cause instant combustion....probably the measure is 2,300 psi maybe even 230 psi:thinking::thinking:
Hi AW...I forget what the pressure is right after fuel filter, but in the manual it says it's at 23,200psi after the high pressure fuel pump...

fuel.jpg

:idunno:
 

talkinghorse43

Active member
Since trouble codes were not read by a Sprinter-specific device, I doubt they were read correctly. Generic code readers don't work well on early Sprinters. The ECM will shut down the engine if a sensor reports a problem that might damage the engine. Perhaps there is a sensor in that state. The early symptoms seem to be limp-in/home mode, so might be the ECM detects a serious problem. Or, maybe the crankshaft position sensor really was bad (certainly a reason the ECM would see as sufficient to shut down) and the code has to be cleared before the ECM will yield?
 

abittenbinder

Doktor A (864-623-9110)
Hi AW...I forget what the pressure is right after fuel filter, but in the manual it says it's at 23,200psi after the high pressure fuel pump...
On the 612 engine the fuel feed pressure is measured after the lift pump not before or after the filter- starter speed should yield anywhere between 6-22psi (after the engine driven lift pump) to the high pressure pump intake. Regarding the high pressure pump output pressure-that's a optimistic high max -the fuel rail pressure solenoid controls the rail pressure( high press pump output pressure). Working rail pressure (especially at idle) is much lower than that max. Doktor A
 

Marty

Marty
:thumbup: Finally got our 3500 back from the shop. It turns out the camshaft position sensor was bad (replaced) but they replaced trhe fuel filter and did not prime it well enough. He had an old 'hand pump' in the bottom of the trick box. After priming the injector system with it voillla we have motion.
Thanks for all of the ideas.

Marty

:drool:

:tongue:
 

sikwan

06 T1N Can
Does anyone have a link to a pictorial of how the fuel system work?
Marty, this is for the NCV3 V6, but the principle is the same.



Fuel pump (in tank) feeds the fuel filter. After the fuel filter, the fuel goes to the high pressure pump (top left). The high pressure fuel is then fed to the rails (common rail) and to the injectors. On the T1N's, there's only a single rail vs the double rail in the picture above. I'm sure I'm missing some steps like the cooler and distributor, but it's in simplest of terms.
 

Aircraft Wrench

New member
WOW sik!!

I shoulkd never doubt you! Documentation is fantastic in my world!

I hate to be a pessimist but I think DCM is exaggerating the PSI...maybe Dr A has some more documented data to confirm or deny my disbelief.....

Sincerely yours,

The doubter (!) (;)
 

sikwan

06 T1N Can
I shoulkd never doubt you! Documentation is fantastic in my world!

I hate to be a pessimist but I think DCM is exaggerating the PSI...maybe Dr A has some more documented data to confirm or deny my disbelief.....
Doubting and being a pessimist is good. :thumbup: :smilewink: I'm here to learn too. I'm just passing information. Whether it's correct or not is another matter. Kind of like the proverbial "dumb question." If no one brings it up, we would never know the possibilities in the discussion. :smirk:
 

talkinghorse43

Active member
This is a more acurate reference to the five in-line it's as simular to the four pot CDi

View attachment 6115
Richard
Great diagram! One small correction, though. The recycle fuel line goes back to the filter and the fitting at the filter has a temperature-actuated valve that directs recycle fuel to the dirty side of the filter to warm the filter and after that the valve directs recycle fuel back to the tank.
 

Altered Sprinter

Happy Little Vegemite
Great diagram! One small correction, though. The recycle fuel line goes back to the filter and the fitting at the filter has a temperature-actuated valve that directs recycle fuel to the dirty side of the filter to warm the filter and after that the valve directs recycle fuel back to the tank.
Picky,picky:thumbup: I did say 4 pot it's for a 2001 Sprinter TIN this is a simular as to the 5 inline for Low pressure fuel bar sets. US Tins use two differnt 5 inlines based on emssions, for fuel bar sets ranging from 1300 up to 2500
If you look at the V6 Gas version and then look at the V6 diesel you will find a difference between the systems both photos are examples. neither are 100% acuurate but both show the basics of the set up as to Marty's basic request.
Looking at the 5 in-line so far I have 1300..1500..1800...2000..2200 for the same engine but with different fuel bar pressures, based on the vehicles weight configuration speed limitors axle ratios and transmissions, and including emissions standards for different countries.
V6 NCV3 1200..1600...2000 pi Not an easy engine to follow.
Richard
 

talkinghorse43

Active member
Old thread, but that's what happened to me today (no start). Wife and I got back from a 1500 mile trip late last PM (no issues during) and I went out to do a little shopping this AM and it wouldn't start (very lucky it died at home). The way it was acting, I suspected the camshaft position sensor, but to be sure, hooked up the Autoenginuity and found DTC 1354 (camshaft/crankshaft synchronization). Hoping it was just a bad electrical connection, I disconnected the neg batt terminal, took off the plastic cover and broke and remade the connection to the sensor. After reconnecting everything, it started! Apparently, the problem was a high resistance connection to the camshaft position sensor.
 

Aqua Puttana

Poly - Thread Finder
...
Apparently, the problem was a high resistance connection to the camshaft position sensor.
You knew some good things to do. Glad it worked. I wouldn't declare victory as yet. Often times these sensors first get unreliable and then fail some time later. That's an observation, not a diagnosis.

Fortunately that sensor is not one of the more expensive ones. As cheap as I am, even I can afford to carry a spare. Good luck. vic
 

talkinghorse43

Active member
You knew some good things to do. Glad it worked. I wouldn't declare victory as yet. Often times these sensors first get unreliable and then fail some time later. That's an observation, not a diagnosis.

Fortunately that sensor is not one of the more expensive ones. As cheap as I am, even I can afford to carry a spare. Good luck. vic
That's why I qualified the diagnosis. Good idea to carry a spare.
 

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