Layout plan.

[Whippet]

Thank you for the compliment.

I have no problem with microwave. My problem was that to have a DC powered microwave the necessary DC infrastructure is complex and expensive, about $1000 extra. The primary use for the 1000W inverter in my application is microwave, for PC or mobile devices a small 300-500W would suffice. Doing it again I would install 3-4 stage charger such as Xantrex TrueCharge and 300-500W full sine wave inverter. With a different loads requirement my story would change. Simply, building 1000W supply from the batteries can’t be justified in my usage of microwave in off shore power situation, I do have inside mounted alcohol stove.

Regarding 80/20, during the last Sprinter Fest in Tualatin I discussed the plywood versus 80/20 with a person who introduced himself as an owner of the cabinet shop. He stated that to get the same strength of cabinetry work he would need to use ¾” plywood in a mobile application, so:
- 2’x3’ 80/20 1515 frame is 9.36 lbs. which can be filled by 1.8 lbs double wall polycarbonate, 4.7 lbs plywood, or 6.6 lbs HDPE
- 2’x3’ ¾’ plywood weighs 14 lbs.
- To reduce 80/20 weight you can use sometimes none or light weight panels or lighter profile 1” extrusion which is one half weight of 1.5” one.

The benefits for 80/20 are:
- Very strong frame versus strength coming from panels.
- Combination of 80/20 with HDPE requires "0" finishing, for me this was a key point. HDPE can be cut or machined with wood tools such as miter or table saw, forstner drill bits, or router.... HDPE is very often used in the boating industry.

Regarding cutting at home, in my entire project I made just 1 extrusion cut on the miter saw using special blade for nonferrous material at home. All modules I designed on CAD and factory cut them to size. I know it is more expensive but it is still way less expensive than buying Airstream with platinum bolts. There is a learning curve with 8020 materials and fasteners, I would suggest to look at some of their videos. If you are reasonably proficient with CAD - assembly is simple. Cutting and tapping at home is definitely doable in a limited in tools garage but learning curve gets steeper. Hein’s CNC help was significant on this project.

Good luck,

George.

Hey George-

I keep coming back to the clean look of your design. I'm still slowly getting a handle on all of the components and terminology. If I'm understanding this correctly, you were able to have 80/20 make all (or the majority) of your cuts and supply all (or most) of your fasteners? I'm doing a pretty basic conversion, and I really like the look of your galley and overhead cabinets. Do you happen to have a design/drawing and parts list (to order from 80/20 for the galley and overhead that you would be willing to share? That's a Dometic sink, correct? Very nice.

 

[CheckMax]

Hey George-

I keep coming back to the clean look of your design. I'm still slowly getting a handle on all of the components and terminology. If I'm understanding this correctly, you were able to have 80/20 make all (or the majority) of your cuts and supply all (or most) of your fasteners? I'm doing a pretty basic conversion, and I really like the look of your galley and overhead cabinets. Do you happen to have a design/drawing and parts list (to order from 80/20 for the galley and overhead that you would be willing to share? That's a Dometic sink, correct? Very nice.

Likewise - I have a psgr arriving in 6 weeks or so and would like to add the overheads in the same fashion as you have done. Any guidance on parts/equipment list would be very much appreciated.

 

[Nate]

Hey George-

I keep coming back to the clean look of your design. I'm still slowly getting a handle on all of the components and terminology. If I'm understanding this correctly, you were able to have 80/20 make all (or the majority) of your cuts and supply all (or most) of your fasteners? I'm doing a pretty basic conversion, and I really like the look of your galley and overhead cabinets. Do you happen to have a design/drawing and parts list (to order from 80/20 for the galley and overhead that you would be willing to share? That's a Dometic sink, correct? Very nice.

Likewise - I have a psgr arriving in 6 weeks or so and would like to add the overheads in the same fashion as you have done. Any guidance on parts/equipment list would be very much appreciated.

This post seems to have the parts list for the Overheads. I agree that everything he's done looks great and is what I keep going back to for ideas.

https://sprinter-source.com/forums/showpost.php?p=303532&postcount=519

 

[CheckMax]

326-327

I'm not sure how to post specific threads. I understood most of what George did with his upper cabinet installation. I was wondering where he sourced the fiberglass angles he shows in posts 326 and 327.

George - can you share please?

 

[GeorgeRa]

I am travelling mostly off the grid. Will reply in a wek.

 

[mugget]

Wow - just caught up on quite a few pages of updates here. Very nice work on the folding/slide out table!! I am going to want one of them! Haha.

And an LED projector, well I didn't even know that such a device existed. It's always a dangerous thing coming back and checkup up on different builds here... gives me all kinds of ideas!

 

[GeorgeRa]

Hey George-

I keep coming back to the clean look of your design. I'm still slowly getting a handle on all of the components and terminology. If I'm understanding this correctly, you were able to have 80/20 make all (or the majority) of your cuts and supply all (or most) of your fasteners? I'm doing a pretty basic conversion, and I really like the look of your galley and overhead cabinets. Do you happen to have a design/drawing and parts list (to order from 80/20 for the galley and overhead that you would be willing to share? That's a Dometic sink, correct? Very nice.

Yes, practically all extrusions cuts were machined at 8020 factory and I used factory fasteners.

Yes, the sink is the Dometic product - http://www.ebay.com/itm/Dometic-VA7...nless-Steel-/361313864219?hash=item541ffc0a1b

I can share .dxf overhead cabinets and galley file. It would require some work to have foolproof design documentation, if you can read .dxf file you can extract dimensions at will.

Good luck with your project.

George.

 

[GeorgeRa]

326-327

I'm not sure how to post specific threads. I understood most of what George did with his upper cabinet installation. I was wondering where he sourced the fiberglass angles he shows in posts 326 and 327.

George - can you share please?

Clicking on the post number makes this post a separate url page then you can share the url address. See my next comment for fiberglass source.

George.

 

[GeorgeRa]

I have the overhead cabinets mounted over a year ago and like the results. They are quiet, sliding door don’t vibrate nor move. A way to qualify good results is to ask a question, would I do them again?- absolutely yes.
I can share CAD drawing in the .dxf format, just send a PM. Key dimensions are in the attached drawing.
The structural fiberglass angle and PVC rod for standoffs are from McMaster Carr:
8542K62
Structural Fiberglass Angle 1-1/2" X 1-1/2" Leg Lengths, 1/4" Wall Thick, 5'L
In stock at $20.70 Each

87025K47
Chemical-Resistant Type II PVC Shapes 1-1/2" Diameter Rod
In stock at $9.34 per Ft.

I would like to explain my reason for choosing 8020 anchor fasteners which are more expensive and extrusions need to be machined at the factory.

The overhead cabinet lower attachments to the pre-mounted 1534 extrusions on walls are very strong. The ceiling attachment points are limited to the number of MB ribs. So the overall ceiling cabinet attachment would rely on the 5/16”-18 rivnut pullout strength and the number of them limited by the number of ribs.

One way to increase robustness of the ceiling attachment is to increase the shear vector of ceiling attachment by keeping the vertical to horizontal cabinet beam joints very strong. The wall attachment point becomes a strong pivot forcing shear load on the upper mounts. In my case the strong cabinet assembly will distribute the ceiling attachment at 55% horizontal shear and 45% vertical pull down loads.

That is why I used 8020 anchor fasteners for this assembly.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=y13-J3wtwCQ

George.

 

[mugget]

more pictures....

George - I just wanted to ask about this setup with the drawers, which look fantastic BTW! Do those Southco M1 latches just latch onto the drawer above? Have you found this to be suitable to hold the drawers while in transit? Also did you use the metal latching plate, or just let it latch onto the timber of the drawer?

I'm going to make up a similar stack of drawers and was going to use the same latch, but I'm just wondering if there might be too much slack or wiggle room that could allow the drawers to move around a bit? I'm just thinking that even slight movement could become an issue over time.

Cheers!

 

[PaulDavis]

Not to speak for George, but .... since I spent a while wondering the same thing because i have done a similar design .... no, George's frame carcass has cross elements between each drawer and the M1's latch onto them. The drawers do not latch to each other.

 

[hein]

We are very happy with the Southco M1 latches and their prevailing torque hinges that we used throughout our build. No rattles or looseness. I machined George's HDPE panels and we decided it would look good to recess the latches and add a bevel around the perimeter. Some of George's parts:

 

[OrioN]

George - I just wanted to ask about this setup with the drawers, which look fantastic BTW! Do those Southco M1 latches just latch onto the drawer above? Have you found this to be suitable to hold the drawers while in transit? Also did you use the metal latching plate, or just let it latch onto the timber of the drawer?

I'm going to make up a similar stack of drawers and was going to use the same latch, but I'm just wondering if there might be too much slack or wiggle room that could allow the drawers to move around a bit? I'm just thinking that even slight movement could become an issue over time.

Cheers!

or...

...you could eliminate the expense and/or time of hinges and machining and use HD touch-latch sliders. They only cost pennies more than regular HD sliders for which I will assume you already have in your design.

These are what I use, and they do not self open when the van is moving.


https://www.accuride.com/en-us/products/3832hdtr-heavy-duty-touch-release-ie






.

 

[GeorgeRa]

George - I just wanted to ask about this setup with the drawers, which look fantastic BTW! Do those Southco M1 latches just latch onto the drawer above? Have you found this to be suitable to hold the drawers while in transit? Also did you use the metal latching plate, or just let it latch onto the timber of the drawer?

I'm going to make up a similar stack of drawers and was going to use the same latch, but I'm just wondering if there might be too much slack or wiggle room that could allow the drawers to move around a bit? I'm just thinking that even slight movement could become an issue over time.

Cheers!

I believe Dave was the first on this forum using these latches, so, thank you Dave. Using the combination of ball bearing and full extension slides works superbly. This is one finger open or close design. Pulling the lever opens the latch and a pulls out drawer or opens a door. Closing drawers is like closing a door on a luxury car, smooth and quiet.

The way I designed the depth and the location of the latch it keeps the latch pushing against the 8020 slot, yes Paul is correct, see pictures. No wiggle, no noise, no vibration, simply this is one aspect of the conversion item which I would give a 10. On my previous RVs I had the 2 roller on the spring engaging with a prong, it required a lot of force and occasionally drawers opened on rough road.

I had to modify the mounting collar from the M1 by removing its portion above the two mounting holes, see the picture. CAD picture is the earlier version and it doesn't reflect that change.

I evaluated another Southco with a round knob, but did not like the pushing / pulling complexity. They are smaller and flush but I like the single finger operation of mine.

I also look into Accuride slides which have built in latches but did not like the force required to close or open.

George.

 

[GeorgeRa]

or...

...you could eliminate the expense and/or time of hinges and machining and use HD touch-latch sliders. There only cost pennies more than regular HD sliders for which I will assume you already have in your design.

These are what I use, and they do not self open when the van is moving.


https://www.accuride.com/en-us/products/3832hdtr-heavy-duty-touch-release-ie

.

Yes, these work but they require high force to activate. M1 is for my grandchildren's pinkies.

George.

 

[GeorgeRa]

We are very happy with the Southco M1 latches and their prevailing torque hinges that we used throughout our build. No rattles or looseness. I machined George's HDPE panels and we decided it would look good to recess the latches and add a bevel around the perimeter. Some of George's parts:

Thank you for bringing this point. With the exception of overhead sliding doors which were simple to make with wood tools all other HDPE components of my conversion were made by Hein on his CNC machine. Hein took considerable time to finesse the hole’s profile for the recessed mounting of the M1 latch and it looks great.

Thank you Hein.

PS; How is your shop coming? My house should be framed this week.

George.

 

[Graphite Dave]

George: thanks for the latch/80/20 drawing. Not yet to the cabinets yet on new conversion so may do it the same way.

I replaced the pushbutton style latches with the southco because pushbuttons opened while driving. Southco's are much better design. You do not have to compress the plunger spring when opening and plunger slope is less so they are easier to close. Highly recommended.

 

[mugget]

We are very happy with the Southco M1 latches and their prevailing torque hinges that we used throughout our build. No rattles or looseness. I machined George's HDPE panels and we decided it would look good to recess the latches and add a bevel around the perimeter. Some of George's parts:

Thanks for all the info you guys are sharing on this. If not for this forum I would never have even heard of Southco - I plan to use the prevailing torque hinges for overhead cabinets and maybe other doors as well.

Just wondering how much weight those hinges can reliably open & keep open? I was thinking of using celtec for the overhead cabinet doors, just so it's light enough & the hinges won't struggle. Otherwise I will just use something along the lines of 10mm plywood. What do you think? I know it probably depends on the overall door size & weight, as well as how many hinges are used.

If I was doing it over and budget was not a worry I would use celtec throughout as well. I picked up some samples and tested a simple superglue butt joint - very impressed and that material is so light and really sturdy. Not sure what it's like in the U.S., but fairly expensive here in Aus compared to plywood (even marine plywood).

or...

...you could eliminate the expense and/or time of hinges and machining and use HD touch-latch sliders. They only cost pennies more than regular HD sliders for which I will assume you already have in your design.

These are what I use, and they do not self open when the van is moving.


https://www.accuride.com/en-us/products/3832hdtr-heavy-duty-touch-release-ie
.

I really wish there was a product like this that was more heavy duty. I have some fairly short 100mm tool drawers that I'm already using 45kg (100lb) slides on, but I found a local supplier and they didn't recommend the push to open slides for 4WD use etc. due to the vibration possibly damaging the plastic mechanism over time. Maybe okay for road use in a Sprinter. But for now I think I'll stick with what I know and go ahead with the Southco latches.

Thanks George for that extra info, that answers all my questions. I'll go ahead and add some cross supports for the latches. I just hope I have enough space since I'm planning to use stainless steel latches for the extra holding strength, things could get tricky if I have to trim them down!

 

[hein]

Just wondering how much weight those hinges can reliably open & keep open? I was thinking of using celtec for the overhead cabinet doors, just so it's light enough & the hinges won't struggle. Otherwise I will just use something along the lines of 10mm plywood. What do you think? I know it probably depends on the overall door size & weight, as well as how many hinges are used.

The prevailing torque hinges are adjustable. 2 hinges can easily hold a small to medium overhead door opening upwards with the hinges along the top. Add another hinge if more hold is needed.

Thank you for mentioning how easy it is to assemble Celtec with CA glues. We haven't had any durability issues with the material or the CA bonds. In addition to all our cabinets, the drawers are entirely out of Celtec and assembled with CA. They have held up very well fully loaded with fairly heavy stuff and used frequently.

I seriously considered using the online drawer supplier where George got his made. I would have needed to make fronts so figured why not try to make the whole thing. Below is a photo the drawer parts. The part in the foreground is one piece that I thermo-formed into the sides and back of the drawer. That wraps around the bottom panel (top right) and then fits into the dados on the back of the drawer front (top left). It took no longer than 10 minutes to assemble the drawer and set the joints with CA.

PS; How is your shop coming? My house should be framed this week.George.

Trusses are due in a week or two.

 

[GeorgeRa]

The waiting time.