DPF delete by my friend

dukepilot

Custom Spooling USA
Re: "BDP" was Re: DPF delete by my friend

Gary, I'm interested in hearing your friend's results.:thumbup: Keep it coming!


Bob, Our NCV 3 fueling systems would not live well on straight biodiesel either.

Friends results after installing empty can dpf:

-Dpf core was clean, but it seemed to be in almost constant passive regen, had high egr flow and 10-20% mpg decreases from historical with power cuts for high egt's.
-Before tail pipe was rust colored with almost no soot. After pipe is black with almost no soot.
-Power and response are improved.
-With just the tune: 19 mpg average.
-Same tune and dpf core removed: 10+% mpg increases but only with a light foot otherwise mpg is unchanged.
-No codes or cel with tune and empty can.
-Egt's are reduced 70-100 degrees, 150 degree reduction @ idle
-Results will follow for dpf/egr delete written into existing tune only if there is positive interest.
 
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gary 32

07 ncv3 pv
1 week later, Friends results after installing empty can dpf with a performance tune:

-Very light soot film in rear pipe, no observable airborne soot, light bleach smell, no smoke.
-No turbo lag, better throttle response, healthier engine note, moving more air at all rpm's.
-10+% city and highway mpg increases with a light foot; otherwise mpg is unchanged.
-Egt's are reduced 70-100 degrees, 150 degree reduction @ idle.
-200 miles, still no codes or cel with performance tune and empty can.
-Loader arrived yesterday ($206.47 shipped), my friend wants to drive it without the ($400.00) dpf/egr delete tune for a couple weeks, tuned results in a few weeks.
 

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flman

Release the Kraken!
Hey Gary, I am wondering if it coasts any better considering the DPF might act like an exhaust brake?
 

4wheels

Member
1 week later, Friends results after installing empty can dpf with a performance tune:

-Very light soot film in rear pipe, no observable airborne soot, light bleach smell, no smoke.
-No turbo lag, better throttle response, healthier engine note, moving more air at all rpm's.
-10+% city and highway mpg increases with a light foot; otherwise mpg is unchanged.
-Egt's are reduced 70-100 degrees, 150 degree reduction @ idle.
-200 miles, still no codes or cel with performance tune and empty can.
-Loader arrived yesterday ($206.47 shipped), my friend wants to drive it without the ($400.00) dpf/egr delete tune for a couple weeks, tuned results in a few weeks.
Empty can DPF ? Is it for sale ? Where can I buy it ?
 
I haven't found anyone who sells a "kit" for sprinter dpf deletes, they are all over the web for Ford/Chev/Dodge. When I took the one we removed to a muffler shop he measured the pipe and told me it was metric... guess I shoulda seen that coming but I never thought about metric pipe sizes. So he just took a slightly smaller pipe and expanded the back end so it would fit in the existing slip coupling and put what he called a "Buick ball" just a kind of flare on the other end to match up with the coupler they use at the front.

This was geniunely done as an experiment because DPF is an EXPENSIVE call, and you don't want to misdiagnose and say oops over thousands of dollars.

Really, removing the DPF can be done with hand tools in a few minutes. The "ball" at the front comes off just like a regular band clamp and its just a plain slip coupler at the back. There are 3 17mm nuts, 2 at the front, one for inlet pres thats just a hollow tube, and one for inlet temp sensor and one at the back thats an outlet pres, just another tube. Then just slide it out of the hanger and your done. While its out, take about a 3 foot masonry bit, and drill holes right down the throat of the thing and replace it.

The computer monitors differential pressure, meaning pressure on the inlet vs outlet to determine DPF load. All the computer will see is less differential, meaning more flow, but as long as theres some differential the computer is none the wiser. Call it a DPF compromise rather than delete.
 
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sterling

'03 3500 T1N
Dude, are you serious? an "integral part of the emissions system", really? Its a cold start aid and doesn't have anything to do with the DPF or anything part of the engine after its running.

DPF is the one of the dumbest ideas dreamed up yet. This is how I think that started...
"Hey, I know, we'll capture all the particulates in the exhaust to keep them out of the environment"
"Wow thats brilliant, but what do we do with all the crap when this capture device is full?"
"Hmmm, well lets dump raw diesel in the exhaust while the engine is running to burn it out of there"
"Right...but if we're going to just burn it out of there, why did we bother capturing it in the first place?"
"Oh it will only work a few times, then the device will have to be replaced with a new one"
"Hmmm, so let me get this straight, we're going to invent a device that captures particulates in the exhaust, sort of self cleaning by burning it out, no doubt very expensive to replace, and ensures lower fuel economy, lower performance, and higher maintainence costs, its great!"

Yeah, thats brilliant guys.

There is NO argument that DPF deletes yield better power, and better fuel economy. Why isn't improving fuel economy priority 1? If we reduce the amount of fuel we consume, demand goes down, foreign dependancy on oil goes down, prices go down, operating costs go down and less fuel is burned, thus less emissions. DPFs arent for the environment, they are for beaurocrats and big oil. And don't get me started on EGR valves!

"Hey lets reduce emissions by recirculating exhaust back in the intake"

"Wow that will very effectively reduce exhaust volume... but won't the exaust be harmful to the engine? Kind of like cuffing a fart and inhaling it to make is stink less?"



Less emissions by 5 times that of diesel with compressed natural gas...why does America not see it and embrace it?

Oh, and by the way, with CNG you don't need a DPF (whatever that is) nor a bunch of belching, stinking, polluting, carcinogenic oil refineries all over America's coastline that crack foreign crude oil into diesel bought from tyrants who hate everything America stands for. Nor would we need to fight wars over foreign crude oil that are so costly, first and foremost, in the lives of young Americans and their families as well as centrifuging our ever expanding collasal (sp) national debt....Our addiction to foreign crude oil is the largest transfer of wealth ever seen in the history of our great nation. It is crazy and hobbles our kid's and grandkid's futures.

Let's cross our fingers and hope the Arabs don't raise the price of the only thing they sell? Really?

Natural gas comes from all over America and the industry hires Americans, pays American taxes and provides an extremely clean burning fuel that can serve as a bridge to sustainables...plus we will eventually be able to fill-er up at home...clean & cost effectively. Most of us have natural gas already piped into our homes or it is out at the curb already.

American Energy for American transportation NOW! a no brainer imho :thumbup:
 
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flman

Release the Kraken!
.Our addiction to foreign crude oil is the largest transfer of wealth ever seen in the history of our great nation. It is crazy and hobbles our kid's and grandkid's futures.

Let's cross our fingers and hope the Arabs don't raise the price of the only thing they sell? Really?
Exactly why the DPF was invented, it is nothing more then a device so big oil companies don't have to compete with bio fuels.

I am sure some of the members with a degree would never believe this? :dripsarcasm:
 

gary 32

07 ncv3 pv
Hey Gary, I am wondering if it coasts any better considering the DPF might act like an exhaust brake?
Bob, fairly quick acceleration then coasting betters mileage in every diesel. More so in my friends Sprinter.

Bob the dpf/egr system is a filter that needs service regularly, Chevy, Chrysler, Ford, MB, VW should all provide no cost maintenance on their systems.
More than 5% bio will mess with the injection side of crd's.

Empty can DPF? Is it for sale? Where can I buy it?

4wheels, Texas Diesel Guy, My friend says: Find a muffler shop to open the factory welds, remove the ceramic filter, weld the can back up and on 07-09 remove the rear muffler and straight pipe that section removing more back pressure.

TGD, Drilling holes is also trashing a dpf without getting all the benefits.
 

flman

Release the Kraken!
Bob the dpf/egr system is a filter that needs service regularly, Chevy, Chrysler, Ford, MB, VW should all provide no cost maintenance on their systems.
More than 5% bio will mess with the injection side of crd's.
Gary, I thought their was a link to a food service that was running bio and had a custom spooling tune on their NCV3s? Also why should MB make a dpf equipped vehicle bio compatible, considering it is a no no with the dpf?
 

gary 32

07 ncv3 pv
Re: What is cleaner than an empty DPF can

A lot of us are nearing the end of our 5 year 100k emissions warranty.
EGR valve cleaning or replacement and egr system cleaning were never listed by MB as maintenance items, yet they are. Our fuel was a given and we are not refiners so stfu MB.

Like an engine air filter, dpf cleaning or replacement would never be covered by any warranty.

Friends Conclusions: An already tuned sprinter runs better in every way with a "clean" dpf, no cel, no codes. For Icarus Orion, no it does not run as clean and no there are not significant mpg increases, but maybe egr delete will fix that.:dripsarcasm:

Gary, I thought their was a link to a food service that was running bio and had a custom spooling tune on their NCV3s? Also why should MB make a dpf equipped vehicle bio compatible, considering it is a no no with the dpf?
My tenants ran (2) MB powered cr/dpf catering trucks on b100 for about 2 years, $30k later in injection repairs they now run b5 or #2 diesel.
 

flman

Release the Kraken!
Re: What is cleaner than an empty DPF can

My tenants ran (2) MB powered cr/dpf catering trucks on b100 for about 2 years, $30k later in injection repairs they now run b5 or #2 diesel.
Is bio a problem with MB CRDs or is it a problem with all common rail diesels?
 

jdcaples

Not Suitable w/220v Gen

flman

Release the Kraken!
Then just slide it out of the hanger and your done. While its out, take about a 3 foot masonry bit, and drill holes right down the throat of the thing and replace it.
What size bit, how many holes?
 

4wheels

Member
Let our Sprinters breath normally , with no DPF and EGR .
And for all defenders of that crappy emissions stuff , I want to tell the following :
when you will pay $2000 hard earned US dollars to dealer for "fixing " DPF and then $1000 again , - Then and only Then make comments how good DPF and EGR are .

The thing that bothers me - Why MB did not put a warning light , when DPF does its regen. ?????????????????????? This way We would let the engine run , so at least our DPF filters would last longer . But who cares about people ? Just let them pay some big chunk of money , they will have no choice .
 

jdcaples

Not Suitable w/220v Gen
Let our Sprinters breath normally , with no DPF and EGR .
And for all defenders of that crappy emissions stuff , I want to tell the following :
when you will pay $2000 hard earned US dollars to dealer for "fixing " DPF and then $1000 again , - Then and only Then make comments how good DPF and EGR are .

The thing that bothers me - Why MB did not put a warning light , when DPF does its regen. ?????????????????????? This way We would let the engine run , so at least our DPF filters would last longer . But who cares about people ? Just let them pay some big chunk of money , they will have no choice .
I'm not a defender of emission controls or even computer-assisted engines, but the Sprinter was the best tool on the market for the jobs I give to it.

Emission control is not unique to Sprinters. All 2007-2009 diesels in the US and Canada have the same emissions devices and the same problems.

Most (if not all) 2010+ diesels in the US and Canada have the added Selective Catalytic Reduction system using Diesel Exhaust Fluid, special computer programming, Exhaust Gas Recicrulation and Diesel Particulate Filters...

Your posting inspires my curiosity: did you get the right vehicle?

From your writing, I think you might have been happier with a truck from the pre-EGR days.

-Jon
 

4wheels

Member
I'm not a defender of emission controls or even computer-assisted engines, but the Sprinter was the best tool on the market for the jobs I give to it.

Emission control is not unique to Sprinters. All 2007-2009 diesels in the US and Canada have the same emissions devices and the same problems.

Most (if not all) 2010+ diesels in the US and Canada have the added Selective Catalytic Reduction system using Diesel Exhaust Fluid, special computer programming, Exhaust Gas Recicrulation and Diesel Particulate Filters...

Your posting inspires my curiosity: did you get the right vehicle?

From your writing, I think you might have been happier with a truck from the pre-EGR days.

-Jon

Wrong .

I am happy with my truck ! I just made another 1500 mi trip . Trouble free miles .
But I would be much happier if instead of 19 mpg , average ( flat , no towing , ) I would get , I believe like 25 mpg with no DPF and EGR . (Would not you?????)

And I am sure that when the time will come and our wallet will be $3000 less , because of buying or fixing that crappy thing , we wont be happy. Anyone would not be
Will you?


These are not my words but I agree with them ----You would have to be on drugs to want to spend $2000.00 for a device that forces fuel past the rings in you engine, prevents you from idling it, restricts your exhaust system, cuts down on power, lowers you fuel economy?
 

gary 32

07 ncv3 pv
Re: DPF delete by my fruend

600 miles:
1st active regen occurred, 800 to 950 degrees (1st pyro), it was audible and lasted about 10 minutes.
No smoke but the cel came on and watchdog code P1451 evap control canister vent solenoid circuit appeared briefly.

After starting and stopping twice the light and code cleared.
-Runs really smooth and clean with no visible soot ever
-functioning cat makes the tailpipe smell like bleach
-100 degree drop in egt @ 1st pryo, all conditions
-fuel mileage is 10%+ improved with light throttle only
 

gary 32

07 ncv3 pv
The ecu file was e-mailed to Malone today.
When it becomes ecu id time :thinking:on the flashzilla, reply from Mark Malone:

I recommend trying any engine under MERCEDES > SPRINTER W906. They're all ECU Family 120, which is all the same.
(used the 516, 184 hp file which worked)
Do an ECU ID first, then if successful do an ECU Read.
(These are functions on flashzilla, both worked, and the van started right up after the read.)
Thanks,
Mark

Next step is to download Mark's modified tune from a PC to the flashzilla then load the vehicle...
 
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JN3n

New member
Very Interesting , Malone did my Golf TDI with a mild tune and I loved it.
I just sent an e-mail requesting info and will seriously see if " My Friend" wants to do the tune/flashzilla to his new Sprinter.
I would never do anything to my Sprinter because it would be very Bad,, So Very Bad ...:rolleyes:
 

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