Looking at buying, and is this the black death?

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schwarzeradler

New member
Hello all.
I've been a lurker on here for a while now, and this is my first post. Yesterday I picked up an '04 2500 long/tall for an extended test drive, prior to buying. This morning I removed the injector cover to look for the "black death," and I guess I'm not sure what I'm seeing. I think it may have it. I'm going to post individual pictures of the injectors, and the injector cover, hoping to get the opinion of the experts on here. The van has 145,000 miles, and good service records. The owner says he has replaced one injector, due to failure, I'd assume. He said the AC recently stopped working, not sure why, and the parking brake is seized. The trifecta of lights are on - traction control, abs and esp...he said that happened after changing the brakes and not being able to put the new parking brake pads on due to the seizure. Additionally, the cruise does not work. The price is $11,000. What do you all think? I'm pretty good at DIY fixing of mechanical stuff, but I'm not sure if injector replacement is within my realm of skills and tools. Here's the pictures. Thanks much in advance for your help. The next post will be the remainder of the pictures that didn't fit in this post. Also included is the underside of the injector cover. THANKS!!
 

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schwarzeradler

New member
Remainder of the pictures

BTW...the name of the picture is the number of the injector, with 1 being closest to the front of the car. I've included 3 views of "5," the one farthest back.

Thanks again.
 

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schwarzeradler

New member
So, it is the leaky injector/hold down bolt failure. Does it look like it is happening on all of them? It sorta seems that way. Anyone out there have this sort of thing fixed? How much did it run you?
 
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220629

Well-known member
schwarzeradler said:
So, it is the leaky injector/hold down bolt failure. Does it look like it is happening on all of them? It sorta seems that way. Anyone out there have this sort of thing fixed? How much did it run you?
Click to expand...
https://sprinter-source.com/forums/showthread.php?t=16068&highlight=remove+change+injector

Maybe 4 (3?) out of 5 are leaking?? Tough to tell from pictures though. Whether to blame the hold down bolts is somewhat subjective. 5 injectors DIY will be $2000 range maybe/probably more by the time you're done. A couple of those look like they've been leaking quite awhile. They probably will not remove easily. Special tools will probably be needed.

With the other problems you have noted you would need to get this van for a very, very, very good price to be worthwhile.

My opinion and worth everything you'll pay for it. Good luck. vic
 
A.Hayes

A.Hayes

Member
Where are you located? Being near a knowledgeable Sprinter tech is certainly a help. The big difference in price here is whether the injectors are otherwise fine (search for Type2Teach's leak-off test in Write ups), and whether they come out OK. To my understanding, the removal tool that is used when they are really stuck, which is more likely with advanced black death, damages the injector and thus requires replacing it. I just went through this with my '02- earlier motor but same basic scenario. I caught a leaking #5 injector seal early, and was able to just have the seal replaced for $160 parts and labor (injector came out Ok and was re-used). If you end up having to replace the injectors, it starts getting expensive (best deal on them seems to be Europarts), especially when dealing with several of them. Might want to keep looking for a different van, esp. with the other warning lights/etc.
Also, if you're buying in this mileage range, you're probably heading towards the love/hate relationship that lots of folks have with these vans. Getting to know them well helps.
Good luck.
 
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glas1700

Member
If I was in the market for a used van, I wouldn't touch that one. I'd want one without any issues, especially black death. You could also be looking at big $ for the other issues, like a new A/C compressor, if it's shot. Maybe if the seller knocks off another few $K it would be worth consideration.

Byron
07 Navion
 
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schwarzeradler

New member
Thanks a lot for all of the advise. I just looked around europarts at various items...I'm a bit taken aback. I am looking at this van because it's local and owned by people I know. I don't think they're aware of the condition it really is in. They're out of town for this week, so I have it for a week long test drive - and to check it out mechanically. It seems to run and drive nicely, apart from the AC, parking brake, cruise, etc. Our plans are to make it into a camper/live-in temporarily type of vehicle for traveling - I'm a nurse, about to start travel nursing. It has already been insulated and carpeted. A power-vent has been placed in the roof as well. So they have already started the converting process, which we liked. It seems, however, that if it needs a new head and injectors, that I'm looking at $5000 prior to labor...that's something I'm not really interested in. That doesn't even take into account the AC/parking brake assembly (the equalizer linkage is frozen with rust), and maybe some bad sensors or something. Probably should turn this one down, unless they'll sell it for $4000 or so.

Back to the drawing board...

Thanks again for all of your advice.
 
Altered Sprinter

Altered Sprinter

Happy Little Vegemite
Another one bites the Dust
Looking at buying and is this the black death Sprinter Forum (Custom).png​
Best of luck your right. Potently your at worst looking at spending 10 grand on a rebuild.
Richard
 
A

abittenbinder

Doktor A (864-623-9110)
schwarzeradler said:
Hello all.
I've been a lurker on here for a while now, and this is my first post. Yesterday I picked up an '04 2500 long/tall for an extended test drive, prior to buying. This morning I removed the injector cover to look for the "black death," and I guess I'm not sure what I'm seeing.
Click to expand...
This is likely just one injector seat leaking. If you are able to drive to my location this could be fully diagnosed and repaired in one afternoon.

I would recommend testing to determine how many injector seat seals are involved and a diagnostic of the ABS/ESP/ASR issue. This vehicle could be a good value at the right price.

Doktor A
 
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220629

Well-known member
abittenbinder said:
This is likely just one injector seat leaking. If you are able to drive to my location this could be fully diagnosed and repaired in one afternoon.

I would recommend testing to determine how many injector seat seals are involved and a diagnostic of the ABS/ESP/ASR issue. This vehicle could be a good value at the right price.

Doktor A
Click to expand...
Wow. That's better a better seal possibility than I ever thought given the pictures. That does change things.

Your advice for a proper test/diagnosis is the right answer, as always. I'll try to not guess about similar things in the future.

The parking brake problem may be recoverable DIY which could save some bucks.
https://sprinter-source.com/forums/showthread.php?p=95765#post95765
vic
 
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220629

Well-known member
SPAM, as I kinda figured.

The questions continued, I should have stopped, but even as it took too much time I figured there was a joke at the end like "Nobody knows, but you just wasted XX minutes of your life doing this."

They want credit card payment to reveal your death date. Well... I was stupid enough to do the survey, I'm not stupid enough to give them that info. YMMV. vic


chrzovsky said:
Hi there, Speaking of death prediction, I find it really odd that one of the on-line death prediction services showed me the same death date that I was foretold in my dream about a year ago. http://yourdeathdate.info - I can’t explain this coincidence in any other way except that there must be some kind of magic involved here.
Click to expand...
 
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larry8061

New member
Thanks for the explanation! With Andy's offer that changes EVERYTHING.......

I was initially with everyone else..... run not walk away from this one now however......

If they are friends, you might want to see what it would take to get a quote from a "normal" repair facility on what it would take to get this back on the road in good shape. "Deduct" that from the $11,000 and see if that number gets you anywhere near the $5,000 already suggested as acceptable.

Then get the van to Andy or, probably better yet, get the van to Andy before you commit to buying it. That wasn't a minor offer or detail. In the meantime you might alsio want to go on line and see what $11,000 will buy in a Ford E350 conversion/box truck.

Good luck!

Larry
 
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220629

Well-known member
Doktor A,
If I can impose more on your time. Do you have a rule of thumb as to what mileage or conditions would prompt you to replace all 5 injectors, or is that never really necessary?

When I replaced mine at around 220,000 miles I did all five because it seems there have been a few higher mileage injector failures which may have caused bigger problems. Thanks. vic

abittenbinder said:
This is likely just one injector seat leaking. If you are able to drive to my location this could be fully diagnosed and repaired in one afternoon.

I would recommend testing to determine how many injector seat seals are involved and a diagnostic of the ABS/ESP/ASR issue. This vehicle could be a good value at the right price.

Doktor A
Click to expand...
 
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schwarzeradler

New member
Well, after a conversation with the owner, and after Dr. A chimed in, I feel a bit better. He says that when he replaced injector number 4 (see picture #4 in a previous post), he chipped and vacuumed away much sludge from the surrounding injectors as well. He said there was a couple of inches of the blackness over most of the injectors. I can see marks from the scraping away of it. Does the blackness seem to go over all of them if it is not noticed soon enough? Has anyone else experienced this? Tomorrow I will put some soapy water over them (not out of a spray bottle) and see if there's any air leaking from the others. He said he could actually feel the air leaking on the compression stroke from #4 prior to replacement. That one is quite clean right now, too.

I did some work with the parking brakes, the 1-->2 cable junction is definitely frozen, despite my best efforts. The cables before and after seem to be free, however. I've been having trouble finding that part online, though. The brake pad wear sensor is definitely broken on the driver's side...can that cause the three dash lights? All of the parts for the parking brake are there on the driver's side, but are rusty. None (0) of the parts are there on the passenger side. Just a silver piece - the end of the brake cable - is present. A lot of those parts (according to the parts list) I also cannot find. Does anyone know of a good source for those somewhat obscure parts?

Next, the A/C. Not really sure what to do about that...take it to a shop, I guess.

Once again, thanks everyone for your advice...you've all been very helpful.
 
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talkinghorse43

Active member
schwarzeradler said:
He says that when he replaced injector number 4 (see picture #4 in a previous post), he chipped and vacuumed away much sludge from the surrounding injectors as well. He said there was a couple of inches of the blackness over most of the injectors. I can see marks from the scraping away of it.
Click to expand...
That puts a different spin on the issue. Leaking for a long time can erode the head. But, I believe the good Doktor can reface the seat in the head if not too deep and add a spacer to bring the injector tip to the correct elevation if any such erosion is found.
 
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larry8061

New member
When our a/c went the dealership said it was the compressor and quoted some ridiculous price I can't remember. Even though we were in Florida and it was VERY hot we chose not to have it repaired.

Good luck!

Larry
 
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