no-start condition after many warnings

cedarsanctum

re: Member
I did switch relays, to no avail the first time. Also, the first time it did happened the turn signals, steering wheel buttons and a few other things didn't work for a few miles, then just started working. I never did see the temp gauge until everything cleared up.
I'll be heading home tomorrow, and calling the dealer Monday. A full report to follow.
Jef
 

cedarsanctum

re: Member
It took over an hour of playing with relays (after removing the trim piece around the panel above the hood release to get at them easier) to get the van to finally start. Two of the 3 relays have evidence of corrosion showing, and trying to figure out which combination would get it to allow a start was frustrating. Drove it 100 miles to home without turning it off (runs great, everything works, no malfunctions showing), and after parking it on the street (not risking the driveway), it would not start again.

I believe that if i had spare relays to plug in, it would have started. I also believe that simply replacing the relays will not be a permanent fix. What is causing these relays to corrode? Ryan at McCoy assured me it wouldn't be from the high humidity of living in the van (i told him about the water dripping from the inside of the roof, which has not happened since i started leaving the front windows cracked open). And the biggest question is, will warranty cover this again? It seems to be an ongoing problem that started before warranty ran out. Is MB going to stand behind a vehicle with a potentially dangerous fault? Is the lemon law applicable after the warranty expires? I'm going on my fifth visit to the dealer with the same problem.

More to follow.
Jef
 

piper1

Resident Oil Nerd.
If its corrosion, this will stop it. I recommend the T-40 product

http://www.krown.com/products/krown_aerosol.pdf

And here is the closest place to you to get a can of it.

Island Motosport632 John StreetVictoria,BCV8T 1T9(250) 920-4141

This stuff, if placed on glass next to a water drop, will flow under the water and lift the water off the glass in time...its really wild stuff.

If they wont ship it to you, PM me by Monday night and I will send a can out to you Tuesday when I'm in the US again.
 

gary 32

07 ncv3 pv
Jef,

Sorry to hear about your issues.

For 4 years, no start issues with my Sprinter.

The motor would spin with the starter but not run, fix was the tank fuel pump ground under the driver's seat. It may be worth a look.
 

cedarsanctum

re: Member
Thanks, but this issue is with signals not getting to where they need to go to initiate the start sequence at all. No spin of the starter, not even a click when turning the key to start. If the glow plug indicator doesn't light right up, i know it will not even try to start.
Jef
 

220629

Well-known member
Thanks, but this issue is with signals not getting to where they need to go to initiate the start sequence at all. No spin of the starter, not even a click when turning the key to start. If the glow plug indicator doesn't light right up, i know it will not even try to start.
Jef
Jef,
A suggestion not a diagnosis.

The T1N's have a turn signal, engine relay (M), and wiper relay built in to the Fuse Block #1 under the steering column. As our T1N's have gotten older it seems some of the intermittent issues trace to that fuse block/relay connections getting unreliable. The NCV3's are getting older now too. Is there a similar fuse block and relay design in the NCV3's? It may be worth checking. Good luck. vic
 

cedarsanctum

re: Member
Thanks Vic,
I believe the fuse block i'm having trouble with would be the most direct relative to the T1N under column fuse block. It's been moved over to the side wall above the hood release, behind a rather difficult to remove trim piece. Said piece is now floating around the van somewhere else until this problem gets resolved.
I have an appointment at 11 on Wednesday with the shop forman, if i can get it started one more time to get it there.
Jef
 

Geek

New member
Sorry to go off topic in your thread.. can you point me to the iphone app you mentioned?

:cheers:
 

dtroyt

New member
My ESP & ASR lights used to stay on when started never had issues starting but is UK spec manual gearbox version ...it was traced (on MB star) to brake pedal switch for brake lights might be another thing to get checked it only took about 30 seconds to change
 

cedarsanctum

re: Member
I've been meaning to write that up, but right now it's not talking to the Sprinter because of the glitches going on.
The main component is the PLX Devices Kiwi interface device. It plugs into the OBDII port and with WiFi talks to the Rev app on the iPhone. It actually works great and has a very cool interface, when it can talk to your van.
Some day i'll have some time to do all the write-ups i promise here. sigh.
Jef
 

mmmttt

New member
Can I add a question to this discussion as you all seem to be very keen on this stuff. My 2004 Sprinter will not start. When I turn the key all the lights on the dash come up , the battery, glow plugs, etc.. and the auxiliary fan comes on. The lights, including the glow plugs do not then go off as normal and allow me to start the engine. Anyone heard of this before?

It's been in the shop for 4 days now and no luck on what it is. HELP !!!!
 

Rattfink

Mercedes Mechanic
Can I add a question to this discussion as you all seem to be very keen on this stuff. My 2004 Sprinter will not start. When I turn the key all the lights on the dash come up , the battery, glow plugs, etc.. and the auxiliary fan comes on. The lights, including the glow plugs do not then go off as normal and allow me to start the engine. Anyone heard of this before?

It's been in the shop for 4 days now and no luck on what it is. HELP !!!!
fuse box under strreing colomn, very common, if you give it a whack or two and it starts, replace it.
 

suzieque

Member
It took over an hour of playing with relays (after removing the trim piece around the panel above the hood release to get at them easier) to get the van to finally start. Two of the 3 relays have evidence of corrosion showing, and trying to figure out which combination would get it to allow a start was frustrating. Drove it 100 miles to home without turning it off (runs great, everything works, no malfunctions showing), and after parking it on the street (not risking the driveway), it would not start again.

I believe that if i had spare relays to plug in, it would have started. I also believe that simply replacing the relays will not be a permanent fix. What is causing these relays to corrode? Ryan at McCoy assured me it wouldn't be from the high humidity of living in the van (i told him about the water dripping from the inside of the roof, which has not happened since i started leaving the front windows cracked open). And the biggest question is, will warranty cover this again? It seems to be an ongoing problem that started before warranty ran out. Is MB going to stand behind a vehicle with a potentially dangerous fault? Is the lemon law applicable after the warranty expires? I'm going on my fifth visit to the dealer with the same problem.

More to follow.
Jef
hey, which relays are you guys referring to specifically? I will add this to my list of stuff to throw in the glove box.
 

upnorth

Member
See my post 20 in this thread and click on the link and read post 50. I detailed my experience with this same problem.
Bob
 

cedarsanctum

re: Member
The van is spending the night at the dealership. They have taken it to the big shop and are doing a compression test on the body looking for water leaks that would cause all the wiring corrosion under the dash. The fuse block and relays will be replaced, parts ordered and should be here tomorrow. Still not positive it's a warranty fix, but it sounds like it will be.
Thanks upnorth for finding all the info on these relays. It would be wise to carry at least one along, maybe 3. I believe they would have cost me $26 each at McCoy, i will be checking and buying.
The big questions are, did excess condensation from living in the van cause this problem, and how do other RV's deal with this? Will cooking inside in the winter cause too much moisture to build up, leading to corroded relays? My condensation problem has not re-occurred since i started leaving the front windows open 1/4" to 1/2", both sides. Having the air deflectors on those windows is nice, rain cannot get in while they're open. That's about the only way i can vent this van right now.
Jef
 

OrioN

2008 2500 170" EXT
The van is spending the night at the dealership. They have taken it to the big shop and are doing a compression test on the body looking for water leaks that would cause all the wiring corrosion under the dash. The fuse block and relays will be replaced, parts ordered and should be here tomorrow. Still not positive it's a warranty fix, but it sounds like it will be.
Thanks upnorth for finding all the info on these relays. It would be wise to carry at least one along, maybe 3. I believe they would have cost me $26 each at McCoy, i will be checking and buying.
The big questions are, did excess condensation from living in the van cause this problem, and how do other RV's deal with this? Will cooking inside in the winter cause too much moisture to build up, leading to corroded relays? My condensation problem has not re-occurred since i started leaving the front windows open 1/4" to 1/2", both sides. Having the air deflectors on those windows is nice, rain cannot get in while they're open. That's about the only way i can vent this van right now.
Jef
Jef! I have noticed an excessive amount of condensation on any exposed metals from my full-timin'. I even stuck my hand and flashlight into the headliner, via the light console, and saw water rolling down the sloped roof! This moisture crept in from the tiny spaces, particularly cargo side.
 
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cedarsanctum

re: Member
This is the argument i have presented to the dealer about condensation. There are others out there with this condensation problem, and they haven't experienced the electrical issues i'm having. The tech saw water stains on the headliner and was convinced it was a water leak, in spite of my telling him it was from condensation.

I would love to hear if any others have noticed the water condensing on bare metal, and if they've had trouble with electrical components corroding.
Jef
 

jdcaples

Not Suitable w/220v Gen
I think Seattle and Portland have similar enough weather for an apples-to-apples comparison.

I recall turning on the air conditioning in the winter to dry up nominal moisture on the windshield and door windows on the interior of the cockpit in the winter; but I haven't had any electrical problems like you're describing in this thread.

-Jon
 

showkey

Well-known member
MB is not alone......other manufactures have trouble with relays.........some are contaminated at time of manufacture.............sticking on..sticking off..intermintent are the "normal failure modes".

Condensation is possible but would not likely to isolated to one or two parts.......it would be every where.

These are vendor parts made in far off lands:hmmm: with suspect quality:frown:
 

cedarsanctum

re: Member
The official cause of the corrosion under the dash is from living and cooking in the van, according to McCoy. They were actually very good about it and covered the repairs under warranty, but added to the repair order that any future corrosion will not be covered under warranty.
Considering what they replaced, and the time they spent looking for leaks, they were very generous with this repair. The fuse box and a connector plug under the dash, as well as several relays, were replaced.
Conclusion: be very careful with moisture control in your Sprinter. Be sure and ventilate excess moisture. If it is running down the inside of the metal skin, you have a moisture problem.
Thank you McCoy Freightliner for helping me with this problem.
Jef
 

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