Remove Pull Replace Install Change T1N Fuel Injector

Aqua Puttana

Poly - Thread Finder
T1N OM647 Fuel Injector Change

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My basic thoughts for the next "Black Death" triggered injector seal DIY replacement.

Parts:

* 2 ea. more injector seals and stretch bolts than I anticipate needing. The injector seal repair may not be successful. The parts to do it again may be needed.

* 1 each new/rebuilt Bosch injector on hand. The removed injector should be able to be reused/re-installed. If it needs to be disassembled to apply a puller, it should be replaced.

* Ceramic grease for coating the injector body.

* As the T1N engines are now old, it is probably good to have injector return fittings on hand. The possibility of those brittle fittings cracking increases with service time.

Tools:

All as listed for my first injector replacements, plus.

* 1 each modified hold down bolt as a thread cleaner.

* 1 each dowel rod with abrasive disk for seat cleaning. Added: Lightly clean and inspect. The seat may be fine.
Read this first:
https://sprinter-source.com/forums/showthread.php?p=634447#post634447

* 12 gauge barrel cleaning kit for injector well cleaning.

Abreviated Procedure (Refer to original thread for details)

Plan to do one injector at a time. Plan that it may take some time for the injector loosen.

Some days before the actual injector change remove the black plastic cover. Spray Kroil or PB Blaster around on the subject injector(s). With a fully heated engine. Use a vertically aligned pin punch to strike the injector hold down fastener a few times. That may help break the bolt loose. Loosen the hold down bolt by 3 turns. Leave the black plastic cover off. Drive the Sprinter until the injector pops. It may take a week(s) to happen. Once it pops, re-tighten the 3 turns to allow temporary engine operation.

Once the injector is popped loose the rest of the repair is basically as outlined in my original thread and tips from subsequent posters.

The injector hold down threads must be CLEAN!!!

I would again use the 62 inch pounds + 90 degrees for my repair because that was successful for all 5 injectors on my 2004. I might be tempted to add a 45 degree second turn, but given the reported aluminum head thread failures I would not do 62 inch pounds +90 +90 as some recommend. I have little data, but a healthy fear.

FWIW. vic
Well that's good.
Once you have cleaned all the coke from the injector hold downs , run it up and get it hot.
Unscrew each injector hold down bolt in turn a half turn to a full turn (180 to 360) while running hot.
Allow the engine to huff 'n chuff loosening off the injectors in the head.
Again spray the carb cleaner around the injector body (engine stopped )allowing it to penetrate then repeat the loosening off technique until each injector is bouncing up 'n down like sugar plum fairy.
Take into account that the expulsion of gases is eye watering so some goggles helps.

Then while still hot rip out the injectors keeping them in order of removal.
Dennis
Well old habits die hard.
I was taught back in the 1960's to apply a smear of regular grease to the nozzle step then sit the seal washer with the cone face pointing down.
When seated and torqued down, the washer will deform to the seat and the grease will carbon up and seal the other side .
So here we are 60 odd years later, and countless injectors installed without a problem. The old RN based instruction must be regards as gospel.
All best
Dennis
...
A caution for the "pop" method.
https://sprinter-source.com/forums/showthread.php?p=640447#post640447

Injector Bolt Installation 90 degrees vs 180
https://sprinter-source.com/forums/showthread.php?t=68960

**************

Original text starts here.
May 2011. 220,000 miles.
This is not strictly the steps of injector removal/re-install as I ramble about my personal situation. This job is not for the faint of heart. My experience is likely as bad as it gets. At the time I DIY'd my injectors I found little information other than recommendation to take the Sprinter to a professional. Time and postings have shown it can be done DIY. (Remove one injector at a time with a hot engine.)

Edit: Don't let my experience worry you too much. As time passes there are many posts indicating that they had little trouble. Doing one injector at a time with the loosen hold down claw and drive to pop the injector method, and a very hot engine is my advice at this time.

Read/skim this entire thread. There are better techniques for injector removal than I used. Rlent outlines removal of injectors and head here. Thanks goes to Randall. :thumbup:

https://sprinter-source.com/forums/showthread.php?p=201523#post201523

That said, unless you are fairly well equipped to do it DIY, I would recommend going to one of the skilled technicians on our forum.

Note that Europarts SD no longer rents the injector tools.

Warning: The injector hold down threaded holes MUST BE CLEANED OUT 100% or you risk breaking or stripping the bolts. "Good enough" may not be good enough.


I would like to thank WAYNERODD up front for supplying me the rebuilt injectors, the special tools to make it happen, his advice, support and answering too many phone calls from me when things went south. Wayne is yet another person which I've gotten to know through this forum who I'd like to meet personally some day. Doktor A was there there for me too. Europarts SD shipped the injector removal tools right away when I ordered them. That helped a bunch, so thanks goes to Steve Schock also. I would not have even considered doing the injector change without knowing the support I needed was available from our overall Sprinter community.

I delayed changing what I knew were leaking injectors for a year. In retrospect that was a mistake. Not only did I risk the injectors becoming more seized in the bore, it also chanced further erosion of the seat face in the head.

Here's some comments from Doktor A I found enlightening.
**********************
https://sprinter-source.com/forums/showpost.php?p=22475&postcount=6

*****
https://sprinter-source.com/forums/showpost.php?p=60676&postcount=62
Several complications can arise affecting the health of your Sprinter, your wallet and your health.

The compression leakage can progress to the point where engine misfire occurs. I recall Sprinter a few weeks ago that came in running on 4 cylinders, with misfire codes. The prolonged 'black death' leakage had filled the entire injector gallery. Driver never smelled anything, claims he's a a chain smoker. In this case he had logged MANY miles with reduced power and fuel economy. It happened so progressively he probably did not notice until misfire became constant and obvious.

Second, prolonged leakage of compression gases can cause a deep erosion path in the alloy cylinder head's injector seat seal face. This can become more challenging to mill, reface and then requires my custom made shims to restore proper injector projection depth in the combustion chamber. Doktor A
**********************
20130110 edit: NCV3 Note. The torque spec in the NCV3 service manual(s) may be wrong. Link here.
https://sprinter-source.com/forums/showthread.php?p=218325#post218325
As an aside my latest inspection today shows no sign of injector leakage. 246,000 total miles, 1 1/2 years now since the repairs. I'm beginning to be a little less worried. (knock, touch wood)

Parts definitely needed:

Fuel Injectors.
(If the slide hammer puller doesn’t work and you need to disassemble an injector it is too risky, to put it back together and re-use it. I lost each and every tiny little check ball. Therefore a full set of injectors, or at least those you plan to change seals on are a good idea to have in your possession.) Please see revision on page 2.

20120610 edit: Apparently disassembled injectors can be reused. That does nothing as far as renewing worn parts, but it may appeal to some DIY people. Thanks goes to Bramage for most of the info. https://sprinter-source.com/forums/showthread.php?t=21026

New hold down bolts w/ spares

New copper seals w/ spares.

Anti-seize to coat injector bodies.

Parts possibly needed:

Return line O-ring seals.

Return line clips.

Tools needed:

Edit: Some great DIY tool ideas are provided further down in this thread.

It is best to have a proper injector puller set on hand. You may get lucky, but if you don't you're dead in the water, or risk cracking the aluminum case if you try to pry against it. Do NOT lever against the aluminum case. It is just a thin casting in many areas and can be easily damaged. I know that for a fact. [S[Europarts rents the removal tools needed [/S](and possibly Wayne Rodd will rent them out also).

12” or 10” adjustable, or 30 mm wrench for injector puller nut.

Inch pound torque wrench. (62 inch pounds)

A long T40 driver for hold downs.

A 6" long M6x1 bottom tap to clean out the hold down bolt threads. (1000% necessary)

R&N M 6x1 D-5 040860 (Metric M6x1 thread 6" long extension tap. The extension shaft needs to be smaller than the thread flutes.)
http://www1.mscdirect.com/cgi/NNSRI...re=ItemDetail-_-ResultListing-_-SearchResults
Edit: OR you can modify one of the removed hold down bolts. Use a grinder to add flutes like found in a tap to the old threads (and maybe a relief on the bottom end). That will provide a place for the removed material to collect as the modified clean up bolt is turned down into the head. Be certain all burrs are removed after grinding in the flutes.

A seat face tool. (Given the choice I would go for the many cutting flutes design as opposed to a tool which only has 4 flutes. More cutter flutes usually can give a smooth surface with less talent.

Cylindrical brass brush Miller #9717. May work IF your injector seal faces in the head are in great condition.

A strong cylindrical magnet to remove hold down forks.

An air blower with a thin (3/16”?) 5” long or so tip.

13mm and 14mm open end wrenches for fuel lines.

5 mm Allen wrench for cover

Tin foil (cover any opened and exposed fuel parts)

Mirror and flashlight. Inspect seal surfaces.

I actually fabricated a seal remover because I was afraid of damaging the seat face. I never used a screwdriver or other pry tools. I think a 3/8"x24 intermediate or bottom tap with a long extension would work also.

A large old towel.


Remove Injectors

20131124 edit: It is best to have the engine hot before trying to remove an injector.

An opinion. I'd take the above to the extreme of removing one injector, re-assembling that one to get running for re-heat, then next, etc. The engine being hot really helps.

If (when?) I next need to remove an injector I will use the method of loosening the hold down claw and driving the Sprinter to pop the injector loose. More about that method is found or referenced further down in this thread.

You can try spraying penetrating oil around the injectors and hold down bolts a couple days prior to removal. Some people think it helps. I did that. Can't say if it helped or not, but all my hold down fasteners did remove fairly easily.

Remove the injector plastic cover. 5 mm Allen socket screws.

Remove the 5 clips from the fuel return lines. Remove return line fittings. On the tough ones, I pulled up enough to get a screwdriver blade under to carefully pry up a bit to release. Be careful of the back hose, I've been told it can harden and become brittle. I wrapped the entire return line and fittings in tin foil to keep it clean.

Crack the High Pressure HP line nuts loose on each injector. Leave them basically in place though to help keep dirt out.

Use a punch fit into the star fastener head and a hammer to rap each injector bolt a few times to help loosen the threads. Remove the injector hold down bolts (long reach T-40 bit). I used my 1/4" drive Tee bar to keep even stress on the fasteners. All first made a crick noise, but didn't seem to break loose. I then applied a bit more pressure and each began to loosen. First I used short back and forth movement until it was safe to just turn them out. All came out without issue. No evidence of aluminum pick up was found in any of the bolt threads.

Remove the hold down claws (pawls) using the cylindrical magnet. My #1 and #2 claws came out fairly easily. #3, #4, and #5 were a bit tougher because the Black Death kept them stuck. I found that a flat screwdriver blade worked against each side helped. Then I used a pick to run around the claw to break loose the carbon. A Phillips screwdriver end inserted into the pawl bolt hole gave me something to carefully pry against to move them out. They will loosen and then come out with the magnet.

I used a piece of 3/8" ss tubing with a standard flare on the end, connected to my shop vac to go in and suck out the black residue. It worked fairly well. The flared end worked as a scraper. Most of the junk was sucked up as it came loose. The tubing did plug up once in a while. I used a short piece of garage door cable to clear the tubing/hose. Don't run your shop vac too long with a small hose restricting the flow. Many vacs depend upon the suction air flow to help cool the motor. Short periods are fine. (Using a shop vac for fiberglass resin vacuum bagging... not so fine.) Many of the chunks around the injector tops sucked out fairly easily.

Next loosen the other end of the HP lines. Remove the injector fuel lines, cover them with tinfoil, swing them clear and snug the header nuts to hold them in place out of the way.

After cleaning up the loose material as best I could around the injectors, I tried removing the #1 injector with a slide hammer puller. It didn't budge. I needed to use the Hutson pull bolt style special puller which required disassembling the injector to attach to an internal threaded boss in the injector body. That puller worked to remove the injector. The copper seal came out with #1 injector.

After the injector was removed I used a caulking plastic tapered tip to insert into the bottom hole and help keep out dirt. I had cut it down and inserted an iron wire to hook on to for removal. The idea was to help keep the dirt out. I knew it wouldn't be 100%.The ss flared vacuum tube worked well to scrape down and help clean the sides of the injector well. Round brass wire brushes also helped.

(Ran out of character space. Continued on next page.)
 
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Aqua Puttana

Poly - Thread Finder
After the initial cleaning I removed the plastic step plug. I then balled up some tinfoil and stuffed it into the #1 injector well to keep any further dirt from falling in while I worked on the next injectors. The bores need to be clean enough that the new injectors can be inserted without knocking loose any material which could fall down and affect the the copper seal. I went back to each bore later on for more thorough cleaning.

I attempted the slide hammer on #2. No luck. I disassembled the injector as required, installed the Hutson special screw puller. In trying to pull the injector the puller nut stripped. (I was told it was worn and maybe questionable.) I tried the slide hammer puller again on #2, #3, #4, and #5 with no luck. With a failed special bolt puller it was game over on a Saturday until I get another puller.

20120610 edit: More and more people are posting that they have had good success loosening injectors by leaving the injector claw bolt loose and driving the Sprinter to pop the injector loose. Were I to be changing only one injector I would try that method before any disassembly other than loosening the hold down bolt.

I decided to chase out all the hold down threads as the rest of the work was stopped. This absolutely needs to be done. Even though the #4 bolt removed fairly easily there was so much junk down in the hole that I couldn’t get the tap to the threads. After some picking and some blowing out I finally got the tap to start. Carbon was still building up on the tap. I found I needed to turn the tap in until it just started binding, remove it and pick the carbon out of the flutes, then go again. Fortunately repeated removal and inspection showed no aluminum on the tap, just carbon. #1, #2, #3 and #5 went fairly well.

I ordered an injector puller to be shipped. While I waited I sprayed PB Blaster and another penetrating oil about twice daily at the base of #2. Rather than wait patiently as I should have, I tried hammering #2 with a ground square end chisel, wedging the puller for tension, and levering it with a bar. Nothing worked to free the injector, but I did mess it up pretty good.

As it turns out, hammering on the injector with the squared off chisel was not a smart move. I ended up with an oil seeping crack in one corner of #2 injector valley. The good news is that so far scraping the area clean, wiping with acetone, and then sealing the valley with JB Weld seems to have worked. Doktor A commented that the aluminum head cover is as fragile as an egg shell. There are many thin areas in the casting. The pull bolt injector removal tool is designed to stay close to the injector where the casting is stronger.

When the puller arrived I installed it, lubed the pull nut and began torquing the nut with a 12 inch Crescent wrench. The injector wouldn’t come loose with what I was willing to apply. That said, I was a bit gun shy having already stripped one puller nut. Hammering on the injector while tensioned didn’t seem to help at all either. Long story short, I tried various things without result and was now getting more worried. I decided to spray more P-oil, torque down the puller nut and let it stay fully tensioned overnight. My hope was that any temperature changes might help break something loose under tension.

Next morning I tried pulling on the puller nut, no good. I decided maybe acetone would be thinner than P-oil to work into the recesses. Over a 2 hour period I applied three doses of acetone to the base. When next I put torque to the puller nut it turned and turned as the injector finally came loose. There was a great feeling of relief at that time by the way! The copper seal was on the bottom of #2 injector. Interestingly even with all that P-oil sprayed and soaking for days, and the acetone soak, the bottom few inches of the injector was bone dry. The oil never worked its way down as I thought would happen.

Anyway, I installed #1 and #2 injector, re-connected #3, 4, 5 torquing them to just 50 inch pounds using the old bolts. The seals would probably leak, but I thought a bit of fuel blowing into the lower injector area might actually help loosen things up. I also didn’t want to chance breaking a used bolt.

I tried starting the van. It cranked quite a time without start. Bleeding a single line didn’t help. I finally loosened all the injector line nuts and cranked to bleed the system. I figured any fuel getting down to the injector bases might help as solvent anyway. I re-tightened the nuts and it started fine. I took it for a warm up drive and got up past 180F by the gauge.

#5, 4, 3 removed as they should with the puller nut. On my 2004 between the lack of clearance above the injector, a heater hose in the way, and insulation blankets I found the slide hammer wasn’t worth trying. The copper seal was not on the end of any removed injector.

I fabricated an injector seal removal tool. It worked pretty slick to pull the 3 seals in short order. It has been suggested that a step drill bit can be used to capture the old seals. I would try a 3/8-24 tap with an extension first.

Clean-up and installation went fairly well.

The basic steps are:
Clean out the bore as best you can to keep stuff from falling down into the seat area during installation.
Clean and inspect the seal seat. (Spritz some WD-40 with the seat cutter if needed.)
Vacuum and blow out all the junk. Stuff some tinfoil in the well to keep stuff from falling in.
Leave all the injector plastic protector covers in place.
Coat the fuel injector body with the Never-Seize supplied. Do not coat down near the nozzle.
Remove the nozzle cover.
Carefully install the copper seal. The seal bound tightly onto my injectors as it got near the seal face. (I installed the convex side to the head seal. My logic: Either side will seal to the machined steel injector body. There is a possibility that the outer area of the head seal face could be a bit raised. Putting the convex side to the aluminum gives best contact around the inner surface. YMMV, it's just an opinion.)
Give the piston one last blow out.
Insert the injector into the bore being very careful to not touch the nozzle tip to anything.
Once it was down in place, I then moved the injector body back and forth a bit to make certain it felt solid.
Install the hold down claw.
Line up the hold down bolt hole and give that one last air blast.
Insert the hold down bolt and get it snug. Torque it to spec later.
Connect the HP line.

Now back to my rambling.

#3 needed a bit of attention with a seat tool to look good. I also used a cylindrical brass brush Miller #9717 which a tech supplied me. I used that as the last cleaning of the seats before installation. My MB rebuilt injectors came complete with seals, hold down bolt and never seize. They also included new return line clips.

One final blow out of the injector bores and one last mirror/flashlight visual inspection. I used a plastic bag over my finger to coat the injectors with Never-Seize. I then removed the tip cover, installed the copper seal and inserted the injectors into the bores.

After all injectors were in, I coated the hold downs claws with a bit of Never-Seize and put them in place. I then lined up each hold down and put the air blower down into the hold down bolt hole for one last cleanout blast. After that I installed the hold down bolts just snug. Those threads do not get coated with anything.

After connecting the high pressure lines to position the injector to the tubing set, I torqued each hold down to 62 inch pounds and followed with a 90 degree turn to each per the manual.

Install all the electrical connectors.

Install the return line fittings. A bit of small rotation helps them drop in. Be careful that the clips are in the proper slots. They may tend to drop down to a lower incorrect position.

Bleeding the injector lines may reduce the number start cycles needed to fire up.

You may need to encode the injectors.

You will need to reset the low fuel rail pressure code.

My 2004 OM647 engine allows all injectors to be removed without lowering the engine or other tasks. I haven't tried to code my injectors with the DAD yet. I'm told the OM647 engine won't respond to it anyway.

I got pretty discouraged with #2 being stuck as badly as it was. Interestingly that position didn't suffer seal leakage, but the stuff must have worked over to it. Cracking the aluminum head cover was a real bonehead move. It either happened when the chisel slipped one time, or from just too much hitting of the injector body while trying to loosen it. Most of that was when I was waiting for the puller to come from Eurpoarts. I should have had more patience and just waited.

If the injectors remove fairly easily, I guess this is not too terrible a job, but you will really need all the special tools to do it right. That said, I really think going to someone who knows what they are doing and has the tools to do it is probably the best bet. I invite corrections or additions to this Write-up by those experienced in CDI changing. Only time will tell whether I did a good job or not. vic

20120216 edit: I've re-assessed my thinking about having a replacement injector on hand. Based upon Surlyoldbill's comments there is nothing wrong with just having the seal and new bolts for your first attempt at injector removal. His experience is here:

https://sprinter-source.com/forums/showthread.php?t=19515

Do a leak down test to determine if any injector(s) need to be replaced.



If the injector doesn't come out you can re-install the hold down claw with the old bolt just snug, soak penetrating oil and still drive it. That said, having new extra hold down bolts and seals is a very good idea in case you need to remove and re-install any injector(s).

New hold down bolts. (Have some spares)

New copper seals. (Have some spares)

Patience Can Pay

Some DIY information about popping an injector by loosening the hold down claw.

A Sprinter-source friend called to check on removing his seal leaking injector. He had loosened the hold down claw just a bit and driven without results. After some discussion he decided to loosen the screw some additional full turns and see what happens. The hold down claw still keeps the injector basically captive even with the bolt really loose.

10 days later he texted that the injector finally popped. Normal daily driving and some applications of PB Blaster were the conditions he mentioned.

So if you have the time DIY and are patient it may be best to just wait a while to see if the same method will work for you. In my opinion (and experience) it is much better than disassembling the injector or taking a chance on damaging something while trying leverage for removal.

If the injector passes the Leak Off test I wouldn't hesitate to just clean properly then replace the seal and bolt for the repair.

He used these guys for replacement injectors. He was very happy with their customer service. I believe that Doktor A has mentioned these folks too.

Williams Diesel Service

http://ocaladiesel.com/home.html

:2cents: vic
Amazon has the rather fragile fuel return plastic fittings.


These parts are not necessarily easy to track down using the Amazon search.

Complete 5 cylinder set
http://www.amazon.com/Mercedes-Spri...pebp=1438087226825&perid=0NQKBKBY82MEDSNSVK1H

4 cylinder set for spares (inset pictures appear identical)
http://www.amazon.com/Common-Inject...pebp=1438087295652&perid=0NQKBKBY82MEDSNSVK1H

Brass from the UK.
Search in case links go stale:
INJECTOR HEAVY DUTY BRASS LEAK OFF CONNECTOR KIT FOR BOSCH 5 CYLINDER
Bosch Common Rail Diesel Injector 180° Heavy Duty Leak Off Pipe Connector
Supplier = dieselcomponentsukltd

From the UK, full set:
http://www.ebay.com/itm/281466773901

Or just one connector (I saved this since I magically have 3 metal ones and 2 plastic ones):
http://www.ebay.com/itm/281259686370
 
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Aqua Puttana

Poly - Thread Finder
InjectorChangeToolsB.jpg

The tools I used for removal and installation. Note the vac hose attachment. It is a piece of thin wall ss tubing with a flared end. I connected it to my shop vac and used it to vac out the junk from the injector bores and hold down bolt holes. It didn't get everything (I also used the air blow gun), but I think it helped keep the mess down a bunch.

#3BlackDeathB.jpg

#3 showing the results of black death

TinfoilProtectorsL.jpg

My tinfoil method for keeping lines and openings clean. Note the towel which is a necessary addition for insulation from the intake when working to pull the rear injectors from a hot OM647 engine.

OldInjectorsB.jpg

All 5 of my injectors. Some things I noted. #2 is dry at the bottom even after thorough soakings with two kinds of penetrating oil over a 2 - 3 day period. The lower ends of #3, 4, 5 are very wet. I think that is as a result of the engine oil which crept in from the cracked head cover. Some of it could have been from only torquing the re-used injector bolts to 50 inch pounds?

SealExtractor3_8-24.jpg

A picture of the seal puller I made. I turned down a steel rod. I found that a 3/8" x 24 thread just caught the inside of the old seal. I ground the thread end flat after threading to expose a good edge to pick up the seal. For each of my three stuck seals I inserted the tool, gave a couple 1/2 twists and came up with the seal stuck to the end each time.
Actually I think a 3/8" x 24 intermediate or bottom tap, or one ground flat to the threads would work as well. All you'd need then is an extension to get the tap down to the seal. There is little risk of damage to the seal seat because the thread diameter is slightly less than the nozzle tip hole.

Some Related Threads and links:
OM647 and OM612 injector classification - is it optional?
https://sprinter-source.com/forums/showthread.php?t=11361&highlight=injector+manual
Tech Alert- injector hold down issues-revisited
https://sprinter-source.com/forums/showthread.php?t=3750&highlight=injector+show
Injector on the way out???
https://sprinter-source.com/forums/showthread.php?p=22475#post22475

Europarts is a good source

http://store.europarts-sd.com/injectorremovaltool-sprinter2003-present.aspx
http://store.europarts-sd.com/injectorremovaltool-sprinter2003-present-1-1-1.aspx

Tool links:

Brass Cylindrical Brush
Miller Special Tools (2.7L) Injector Bore Brush MLR-9717
http://www.etoolcart.com/miller-special-tools-injector-bore-brush-mlr-9717.aspx


http://millerspecialtools.spx.com/Detail.aspx?id=976&gid=3

http://millerspecialtools.spx.com/Detail.aspx?id=693&gid=3

http://millerspecialtools.spx.com/Detail.aspx?id=695&gid=3




Hutson Injector Tools
http://www.hutsonprecision.co.uk/au...es-removing-tool-vito-sprinter-cdi-p-489.html
http://www.hutsonprecision.co.uk/au...or-seat-and-aperture-cleaning-set-p-1187.html

Amazon has the rather fragile fuel return plastic fittings

Complete 5 cylinder set
http://www.amazon.com/Mercedes-Spri...pebp=1438087226825&perid=0NQKBKBY82MEDSNSVK1H

4 cylinder set for spares (inset pictures appear identical)
http://www.amazon.com/Common-Inject...pebp=1438087295652&perid=0NQKBKBY82MEDSNSVK1H

Four flute seat tool
http://www.hutsonprecision.co.uk/au...ing/mercedes-leaking-injector-tool-p-767.html

Multi Flute
http://www.machinemart.co.uk/shop/p...tor-seat-cutter-set/path/diesel-service-tools

Amazon

http://www.amazon.com/Red-Line-Tool...pebp=1438088135026&perid=0NQKBKBY82MEDSNSVK1H

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FIfUK2KlDWA
Injector Blow-by
http://www.uniteddiesel.co.uk/tips_docs/Bosch common rail diesel injectors blow-by.pdf
http://www.uniteddiesel.co.uk/diesel_engine_products/6/
http://www.uniteddiesel.co.uk/tips-troubles.php
http://www.samstagsales.com/mercedes.htm

Stripped, broken injector hold down? Breached the Cooling Passage? Some help may be here.

https://sprinter-source.com/forums/showthread.php?p=378570#post378570


Injector Classification
Some info to start is here.

Injector Classification Programming Coding Misc.
https://sprinter-source.com/forums/showthread.php?p=625840
 
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sikwan

06 T1N Can
Next morning I tried pulling on the puller nut, no good. I decided maybe acetone would be thinner than P-oil to work into the recesses. Over a 2 hour period I applied three doses of acetone to the base. When next I put torque to the puller nut it turned and turned as the injector finally came loose. There was a great feeling of relief at that time by the way! The copper seal was on the bottom of #2 injector. Interestingly even with all that P-oil sprayed and soaking for days, and the acetone soak, the bottom few inches of the injector was bone dry. The oil never worked its way down as I thought would happen.

#5, 4, 3 removed as they should with the puller nut. On my 2004 between the lack of clearance above the injector, a heater hose in the way, and insulation blankets I found the slide hammer wasn’t worth trying. The copper seal was not on the end of any removed injector.
I'm guessing Vic...if you had the special puller, a heated engine, would injector #2 come out as easy as #3, #4, #5?

I guess what I'm asking is, is having the special injector puller would (almost?) guarantee yout to not run into the problem you faced with injector #2 (as in pay to rent the tool upfront before starting the job)?

It seemed you got lucky with #1 injector with your slide hammer. :idunno:
 

Aqua Puttana

Poly - Thread Finder
I'm guessing Vic...if you had the special puller, a heated engine, would injector #2 come out as easy as #3, #4, #5?
I had the slide hammer puller and the Hutson special bolt type puller. Wayne supplied me well. :thumbup::cheers:

I agree that had the puller nut not stripped on the Hutson puller, #2 would have come out of a hot engine much as #1, 3,4,5 did.

http://www.hutsonprecision.co.uk/au...es-removing-tool-vito-sprinter-cdi-p-489.html

Once the engine cooled off and the aluminum bore shrunk down I think it locked #2 in pretty good. Many people may face a similar situation if their engine isn't running when they need to pull an injector. I was told that the best situation is to pull injectors from a hot engine. My one time experience verifies that.

I guess what I'm asking is, is having the special injector puller would (almost?) guarantee yout to not run into the problem you faced with injector #2 (as in pay to rent the tool upfront before starting the job)?
Yes. I tired to convey that in my text. In my opinion renting the bolt type puller is money well spent.

The other thing to keep in mind is that to use the puller you need to completely disassemble the top of the injector while it is in place to access an internal threaded boss which the puller screws into. That pretty much guarantees that the injector is junk. Either you will loose parts upon disassembly or contamination will render the injector unreliable.

On #1 and #2 injector I was able to remove the solenoid assembly intact. On #3, 4, 5 I was unable to get the nut loose from the solenoid. What I did then was just force the solenoid assembly around with the Hutson special cut out socket. What that did was sheer off the plastic of the injector electircal connector which ruined the solenoid. I then retreived all the broken plastic bits so the bolt puller wouldn't bear down on them and cause unequal pressure. That was a pretty rough solution, but I had a full set of injectors. That is why I recommend having the injectors on hand.

It seemed you got lucky with #1 injector with your slide hammer. :idunno:
The slide hammer puller didn't work for me at all. I've edited some of the texts to try and make things clearer. I'm quite certain I'll want to do more edits to add notes as time goes on. vic

2011/10/29 edit: Harbor Freight has an O2 and Diesel Injector Socket set which at the least appears to have the modified cut-out socket needed to remove the top nut from our Sprinter injectors. FWIW.

Oxygen Sensor and Diesel Injection Socket Set

http://www.harborfreight.com/oxygen-sensor-and-diesel-injection-socket-set-99850.html

O2Injector Socket Set.jpg

Edit: A recent post by Dennis Lindenengineering. Thanks goes to Dennis for all his helpful posts. :thumbup::thumbup:

I had two recently roll into the shop, plus I bought a take out engine on Fleabay as a fixer upper for re-sale all exhibiting the very same problem, all five stuck in the head.
Yours for sure is a "super duper" example!
Except one of my challenges was that two injector bolts had been sheered off before I got to it and glued back with JB weld!:rolleyes:

Yes as mentioned I do use oven cleaner to remove the majority of the carbon deposits and take care to get all that carbon off the sockets but sockets and pin connectors are available from dealer source for a few bucks. The best stuff for cleaning carbon & penetrating the plugs is Liqimoly is literally dissolves the carbon and use I suppose an old tooth brush for that!

Now getting the injectors out as Vic has mentioned is a tedious process. Since I charge customers to do this I have a plan of NO MORE than 1 hour to lift the injector by conventional means.
That is soak the area in Liquimoly with the engine hot and carefully remove the clamps and bolts.
If you sheer a bolt off --its almost a given the head has to come off!
Try a slide hammer approach quickly on all injectors--sometimes some side to side force rotation around the injector pipe casting plus some prying might and I state "might" budge them.
If that "no workee" Plan B comes into force.
Take the top off the injector install the puller and try pulling!
I have broken three such pullers this year alone so don't get too confident!
If it won't budge then employ African mechanic techniques "Bring fire mister" in the order of a #5 tip on the oxy bottles get it nice and hot concentrating the heat on the injector body not the head of course. That has a good success record in my shop; wrecks the injector of course at $300 a pop but it comes out.
Use gun barrel brushes to clean out the tube & seat using the Liquimoly as a dispersant and carburetor cleaner as a finish. Crank the engine when you are done to clear the cylinders.

If it (they) still won't budge (like two engines I had) then you have to get drastic and that
means remove the bolts from the valve cover plus the breather arr' and bust it off and out. A new cover is around $135. At that stage I simply lift the head off, injectors, glow plugs and all, then cart it off to a specialist and have them spark erode the injector(s) out.
Then overhaul the head with a valve job and rework it back to how it should be! Looking like new!
But you don't need new engine and in most cases nor a head.
Can all end up being expensive but sometimes luck and a few techniques you won't find in the factory nor on youtube will get them out.
Not Easy!
But if it was [easy] everyone would be doing it!
Best of luck
Dennis
 
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Aqua Puttana

Poly - Thread Finder
In case anyone is curious, this is the approximate location of the seeping crack in my cast aluminum cylinder head cover. I coated the small valley area with JB Weld and let it cure overnight. So far so good. Knock/touch wood, fingers crossed. vic

injector valley crack.jpg

20141221 20160124 20161028 20170528 edit: JB Weld is still holding just fine.
 
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mackconsult

New member
Wow .... between you, me & Waynerod we are becoming an asset to the community :smirk:
 

GREYGHOST

03 dodge 2500 om612
2003 2500 .285,000 miles. I had to remove and replace #1 and#5 last year. My secret weapon besides Dr. A's advice was lots of carburetor cleaner. Dissolves the black death and works it way down to the bottom of the injector.step #1 pack paper towels down into bore and flood wth carb cleaner. Pap towels, when the carb cleaner evaporates, will work like a blotter and the dissolved carbon wicks up into the media. I used an open end wrench , vise grips and a chisel to wiggle/rotate/pull out the injectors. Took about 1.75 hours each , and sounded like I was pulling a something out of mud ,when it finally let go. Steve Schock was not renting the puller yet. I needed o ring return line seals from Dr. A. I purchased injectors from him also. 35,000 miles on new injectors. 25 mpg. Need a EGR valve next . Or delete it? Thoughts? JT
 

glasseye

Well-known member
I can't imagine screwing up the courage to attempt a repair like this. Superbly documented, too, Vic. Not easy when your hands are filthy and your brain is addled.

:bow::bow::bow::bow::bow::bow:
 

Aqua Puttana

Poly - Thread Finder
...
I used an open end wrench , vise grips and a chisel to wiggle/rotate/pull out the injectors. Took about 1.75 hours each , and sounded like I was pulling a something out of mud ,when it finally let go. Steve Schock was not renting the puller yet. I needed o ring return line seals from Dr. A. I purchased injectors from him also. 35,000 miles on new injectors. 25 mpg. Need a EGR valve next . Or delete it? Thoughts? JT
GG,
Thanks for the input. It's good to know it can be done without fancy tools.

It just doesn't seem to be right to delete an EGR in this day and age. You did fine with it for 330,000 miles so far if my math is correct. :idunno: vic

....

Not easy when.... your brain is addled.

...
Well, I always figured people were thinking that about me, but to come right out and say it. :doh:

I know, it must be tough love. :hugs: :thumbup:

Thanks for the encouragement. vic
 

glasseye

Well-known member
Well, I always figured people were thinking that about me, but to come right out and say it. :doh:

I know, it must be tough love. :hugs: :thumbup:

Thanks for the encouragement. vic

Heh. I guess I shoulda added "If you're anything like me" to "addled" :tongue:

In any case, it's a HUGE boost to my confidence, knowing that there are guys out there like you and Doktor A and WayneRodd and the rest of you-know-who to help when things go bad with these complex, quirky vehicles. :cheers:
 

Aqua Puttana

Poly - Thread Finder
great write up.
ragge86,

Thanks.

...

but first i'm going to try and make an own version of it to see if i can get it to turn at least.

http://www.lasertools.co.uk/items/pdf/Products/4762_Instructions.pdf

will probably get a Hutson seat cleaning kit to.
Not that you asked...

Be very careful in trying to DIY a puller. A couple watch outs.

You don't want anything which will put stress on the the aluminum head cover except immediately around the injector proper. I have also seen injector hydraulic puller designs which bear on the aluminum seal rim the plastic cover mounts against, as opposed to close to the injector body. Those pullers had cautions about how much pressure to apply with the hydraulics.

Don't do anything to compromise the inner threaded boss found when you remove the injector solenoid and then use an allen wrench to remove a threaded insert. That threaded boss is used for the Hutson style puller. If you compromise that threaded portion the Hutson puller will no longer be an option for you. The Hutson pull bolt is hard, very good quality steel. You will need similar quality to successfully make a puller using that threaded boss.

If you have the time and patience it seems Greyghost's method is worth trying for DIY. Laser makes what looks like a nice cutting tool set. I have no experience in actually using it though. Good luck. vic
 
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ragge86

New member
ragge86,

Thanks.



Not that you asked...

Be very careful in trying to DIY a puller. A couple watch outs.

You don't want anything which will put stress on the the aluminum head cover except immediately around the injector proper. I have seen injector hydraulic puller designs which bear on the aluminum seal rim the plastic cover mounts against. Those pullers had cautions about how much pressure to apply with the hydraulics.

Don't do anything to compromise the inner threaded boss found when you remove the injector solenoid and then use an allen wrench to remove a threaded insert. That threaded boss is used for the Hutson style puller. If you compromise that threaded portion the Hutson puller will no longer be an option for you. The Hutson pull bolt is very good, hard quality steel. You will need similar quality to successfully make a puller using that threaded boss.

If you have the time and patience it seems Greyghost's method is worth trying for DIY. Laser makes what looks like a nice cutting tool set. I have no experience in actually using it though. Good luck. vic
thanks for the input. the idea was to just have the outer part of the puller, with a m16+ nut on top. and with that try to get it moving sideways. but i came to the conclusion today not to try. now i'm going to order both the tools i need to get them out and clean the seats.
now pretty much everything but injector 1&4 is clean and put back together. just have to wait a week now for the tools from england :)
 

mean_in_green

>2,000,000m in MB vans
Congratulations on a job well done Vic - there can't be a single forum member who envied you this task.
 

robertgrosz

Soapchef
Not to scare anyone, but my T1 with 455,000 has blown a head gasket.. Needless to say i need to remove the top end and the fuel injectors. You're post scared the heck out of me. :drool: BUT to my surprise, each on came out by hand, no tools required.

A little prayer might have helped too. :)
 

Aqua Puttana

Poly - Thread Finder
...
You're post scared the heck out of me. :drool: BUT to my surprise, each one came out by hand, no tools required.

...
I can only report my experience. My intention wasn't to alarm people, but to give them some idea of what it might involve.

It's good to hear that it's not always a big project, even with high miles. Do you know if your injectors had ever been changed out previously? . vic
 

cirving

New member
I too was worried sick after reading the horror stories of stuck injectors. Yesterday I changed out the #5 injector (all the way in the back) on my 2003 2500. I think it took longer to take the cover off than to actually change the injector. I thought I read that to change #4 and 5 injectors the engine had to be lowered, but there was absolutely no problem with clearance on swapping them out. I also swapped my heater resister so I now have all of my A/C and heater fan speeds. Now if I can get my door locks to operate properly I’ll be a happy camper :thinking:
 

Aqua Puttana

Poly - Thread Finder
Glad it worked out for you too. My overview may scare the heck out of people, but it also has caused people in your situation to respond with some of the good news stories. That was not happening that I saw previously, so it should balance out. Thanks for the input.

I just checked. It has been 1500+ miles since my injector change. Those miles included some trailer towing so some higher operating temperatures also. The JB Weld repair on the cracked aluminum seems to be fine. No other oil seeping has shown itself.:cheers:

20140331 edit: JB Weld repair still holding. 267,000 miles 2.5 years now. (knock, touch wood)

vic
I too was worried sick after reading the horror stories of stuck injectors. Yesterday I changed out the #5 injector (all the way in the back) on my 2003 2500. I think it took longer to take the cover off than to actually change the injector. I thought I read that to change #4 and 5 injectors the engine had to be lowered, but there was absolutely no problem with clearance on swapping them out. I also swapped my heater resister so I now have all of my A/C and heater fan speeds. Now if I can get my door locks to operate properly I’ll be a happy camper :thinking:
 
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