NCV3 Replace Front Brakes

sailquik

Well-known member
Rensho,
Actually, it seems from what we have seen, that the OEM MB Pads and Rotors are pretty carefully matched (abrasiveness wise) so that the wear is ~ 50% on the pads
and ~50% on the rotors.
This seems to ensure that the overall wear is such that the pads and rotors wear evenly over a longer period of time/mileage, but when the brake wear warning light
illuminates, it's time to change both the pads AND the Rotors!
I'm always amazed at how long the original brake components last.
In all my miles in Sprinters, I've only had the front pads replaced once (way back on my 2006 T1N) and at the time, there was still plenty of wear left on the originals
but I insisted that @ 90,000 miles I wanted the front pads/rotors changed out.
Since then, the brake systems in my Sprinters have never needed anything but the mandatory brake fluid flush every couple of years.
Hope this helps,
Roger
 

piper1

Resident Oil Nerd.
Are you using the same pads on both rotors for comparison?
Yes. Rotors and pads both come from same supplier and always have..and because it worked so well for so long I never changed it up...always same style rotors and same type of pads. (it comes as a kit)

When I say the rotors are soft...they are literally coming apart...not just worn out and shiny...they look like roast beef cut with a dull serrated knife. Something changed in the metallurgy or heat treat. Product that used to go over 200,000 miles is wiped at 50k...pads are still serviceable..rotors are trashed. All my GM stuff (trucks or vans) take the same rotor and pad combo...and we see it on both.

For some perspective, I like pads and rotors that wear out together, then you replace all of it together, re lube or re pin caliper slides etc etc. It provides the most consistent brake performance at the lowest possible cost and downtime (fleets like that!).
If 50,000 is the new normal...I will be switching suppliers. The last of this product I had on the shelf was installed last week....we will see.
 

Shompit

Sprinter driven Sprinter
Reach into the truck and slowly push the brake pedal down in short strokes. It will take 5-10 strokes to get back to a firm brake pedal.


Start the truck, check for firm pedal feel and go for a road test on some slow streets.

Try to let the brakes seat in with a few easy stops before you really get on the pedal.

Re check the brake fluid level.
This is such a great post I thought it almost perfect. Brake fluid is a great cleaner of dried out rubber down there.
Also there are some that do a little more on the Seating portion of rotors. Tempering Rotors ideally can be done carefully with a series of stops from increasing speeds. From 20 to 0 then from 30, 40, 50-to zero. Also remember that coming to a stop after having the brakes on for a while creates hot rotors and sitting at a stop light with the brake engaged creates a hot spot and uneven cooling. This simple driving clue is something lots of drivers are not aware of. Simply roll forward a foot, then again. Ill shut up now.
 

Redpillar

Member
Thanks for the write up. I was very handy. I have my front brakes apart for a check and have found one of the caliper slider pins is seized all the others are in good shape and free. I have soaked it in WD 40 and used a c clamp to try to get it to free up , wacked it a few times but no luck so far. I am thinking a bit of heat might work but do not want to take the caliper off the vehicle. Before I go ahead with that plan, are there any ideas/tricks I might use?

Thanks
 

JIB

Member
Try a little heat, just warm, not hot and soak the pin and hole in a good penetrant like Kroil or others. Use the heat to help draw the penetrating lube in between the pin and the hole, so it can work on dissolving the corrosion keeping the pin in place.

I just finished 5 days, twice a day, of mild heat (warm to the touch), spray, mild heat, spray, etc., to remove a bolt which had never been moved on a 1980 Triumph TR8 car. It came off undamaged. I had the same experience on many bolts on a 1960 Triumph TR3. I didn't damage any bolt I cared about. I prefer Kano Kroil, but there are other great dedicated penetrating lubes out there.

From the WD40 website - While the “W-D” in WD-40® stands for Water Displacement, WD-40® Multi-Use Product is a unique, special blend of lubricants. The product’s formulation also contains anti-corrosion agents and ingredients for penetration, water displacement and soil removal.

Get a dedicated penetrant, not a water displacer with some other stuff in it.

Jack
 

Redpillar

Member
Thanks, I did use this method and was able to free the pin after heating and soaking over night. I still had to smack it pretty hard and move it back and forth for about ten minutes. I used PB Blaster.
 

edfrompa

2008 ROADTREK on F/L 2500
First, many thanks to OP and others who contributed to the discussion.
The only "problem" I encountered concerns the slider pins. After removal, in the clean up parts for reuse phase, I discovered that the two pins WERE NOT identical. Same size, shape dimensions EXCEPT one had a 1/2' wide collar type (ceramic ??)bushing at the end opposite to the securing screw.
Now, I'm left with the question "is it for the upper or lower pin?? Logic told me that it functioned as a wiper to prevent grease from dripping on the pads and therefore should go on the upper pin.
If only I had went with this I'd have been better off. Instead, I went to my very cooperative Dodge dealer and got a schematic that appears to show the pin w/bushing in the lower pin position.
Wasted an hour trying to fit the pin into the lower before finally removing the already installed upper pin and swapping them out without any difficulty. Both fit perfectly.
Don't know if this is rare or common. Love to hear from anyone with more insight into this issue.

Thanks again///Ed M.
 

lindenengineering

Well-known member
First, many thanks to OP and others who contributed to the discussion.
The only "problem" I encountered concerns the slider pins. After removal, in the clean up parts for reuse phase, I discovered that the two pins WERE NOT identical. Same size, shape dimensions EXCEPT one had a 1/2' wide collar type (ceramic ??)bushing at the end opposite to the securing screw.
Now, I'm left with the question "is it for the upper or lower pin?? Logic told me that it functioned as a wiper to prevent grease from dripping on the pads and therefore should go on the upper pin.
If only I had went with this I'd have been better off. Instead, I went to my very cooperative Dodge dealer and got a schematic that appears to show the pin w/bushing in the lower pin position.
Wasted an hour trying to fit the pin into the lower before finally removing the already installed upper pin and swapping them out without any difficulty. Both fit perfectly.
Don't know if this is rare or common. Love to hear from anyone with more insight into this issue.

Thanks again///Ed M.
Ed
I won't say its common but we do come across it from time to time.
For the most part the bush being fluted expands and is difficult to slide back into the appropriate housing. Sometimes "ver nigh" impossible if you have mixed them up.

Yes and I have come across several calipers that are sized to fit the pin in question so the mantra is don't mix em up!
In any case I keep genuine pins in stock (of both sizes) for these very reasons and that fluted bush can expand enough to cause caliper hang up and premature pad wear.
Most dealers don't have these in stock and for me this can down a rig for days if such a problem is discovered.
Dennis
 

edfrompa

2008 ROADTREK on F/L 2500
Thanks Dennis,

Do you think the intended function of the bushing is as a "wiper" to prevent grease from dropping on the pads????

Do you think this is an OEM feature?

I'm tempted to omit the fluted bushing and just be careful with the lube.

Not end of the earth issues, just "old guy" curiosity...wonder if there are any other 72 yr olds doing pads and rotors on their Sprinter-lolol!

Thanks. Ed
 

nemu

Member
Hi All

I have been using this fantastic write up to change my front discs and pads so thank you all for your contibutions , though as I have a dual rear wheel 518 Sprinter my front wheel had a hub flange bolted on top of the disc with 6x 21mm bolts anyone know what these need to be torqued up to please (preferably in NM please) ?

do I use a thread lock on them as well ?
 

nemu

Member
I could be answering my own question here

found following

http://www.tomorrowstechnician.com/sprinter-van-brake-maintenance/

The flange bolts have a torque specification of 133 ft/lbs for first-generation and 144 ft/lbs for second-generation Sprinters.


Front Brakes


The front calipers on both models are very similar. The caliper bracket bolt has a torque specification of 125 ft/lbs and 20 ft/lbs for the caliper guide bolts on first-generation vehicles. For second-generation vehicles, there are two specifications for M10 and M8 bolts. M10 bolts should be tightened to 24 ft/lbs. M8 bolts need to be tightened to 48 ft/lbs.


and conversion ft/lb x 1.3556 = Nm

interestingly there could be a difference with the caliper bracket bolt torque

Piper1 shows the caliper bracket bolt in thread 14 as 60 ft/lbs plus 40 degrees
yet in the info I found above it seems to suggest 125 ft/lbs

any ideas ?
 

GSWatson

2013 144
Thanks for the write-up, Piper!

I just finished doing the fronts tonight, and will work on the backs tomorrow with daylight.

FYI, the bolt holding the rotor to the hub is a T30.

Only thing that went awry was that, even with some PB Blaster, heat and slow pressure, one of the brake bleeder screws (11mm) sheared off. At 62k and 5 years. Anyone know the best way to remove what’s left? I have a bolt extractor kit, but this seemed to be so soft, I’m not sure it would work. At least for now it’s not leaking, but that means I probably won’t bleed the fronts for fear of having old fluid in one side and new in the other.

Hopefully the rears loosen nicely and this is the only bad screw, though I’m tempted to replace all four at this point.

Of course, tomorrow is Sunday, and this is my only driver....

Greg


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk
 

Bobnoxious

Adeptus Trollarium

backdoctor

New member
This past week I spent two days under the front end of my 3500 Sprinter based motorhome banging mercilessly on rotors that were completely unwilling to budge initially. On the passenger side it was 2 hrs of banging with a two pound hammer to get movement of the rotor and eventually off the hub. There was a fair amount of corrosion inside the "hat" for the rotor which effectively stopped it from sliding off the hub. I live in the great white north where salt prevails, and although it doesn't get many miles in winter, it does see some salt! And it sits between trips... I was really praying that the drivers side would be less troublesome. No dice. It was worse. After ½hr with nothing to show for my efforts, I drove over to the MB dealer to ask the techs about a secret sauce for this job. They commiserated with me, saying it was a 3 hr book hr job that was rarely done in that time! Then they gave me the secret. Use a angle grinder with a metal cutoff blade. Cut the rotor down and across the top of the body toward the face being careful not to cut into the hub itself! You can't entirely cut it at the angle where the rotor meets the hat, and where the face meets the opening for the hub seat, but once you've got the majority cut, use a cold steel chisel and whack it, and part the two sides of the cut. It'll crack the rotor, and voila, you can now get some movement on the rotor. After 15 min cutting it took 5 minutes to remove the rotor from the head. I took the guys donuts and coffee the next day! Along with my heartfelt thanks for saving me tendonitis of the forearm and wrist.
 

tech49

2019 2500 144 4cyl GAS
Remove the rotor hold down screw (again, be gentle it isn't big).

At this point you are likely going to have to hammer the rotor off the hub. Hit 180 degrees apart (or turn it half a turn between hits). It will take a fair bit likely to get it moving.

Did I mention Safety Glasses are a good idea?
First side - I was gently trying to get the rotor hold down screw out and it just stripped out. Im not sure what to do now....it wont even fit a larger torx bit. I tried allen 6 sided bits as well, no go. It wont budge. Anyone faced this before?

My rotor definitely has a ridge, not sure if that caused the sensor trip or not. I may have no choice but to throw everything back together and roll on until I can think of something else...
 

lindenengineering

Well-known member
First side - I was gently trying to get the rotor hold down screw out and it just stripped out. Im not sure what to do now....it wont even fit a larger torx bit. I tried allen 6 sided bits as well, no go. It wont budge. Anyone faced this before?

My rotor definitely has a ridge, not sure if that caused the sensor trip or not. I may have no choice but to throw everything back together and roll on until I can think of something else...
Techniques technique techniques.
Take a center punch, hammer and at the middle to edge of the head, & create a pocket then alter the angle of attack to spin it out by whacking it with a suitable hammer. The indention usually "lifts"the head. Some heat helps because the threads are sticky with gel loctite normally applied to the threads.
Otherwise drill the head off then extract the stub with vice grips.
Dennis
 

tech49

2019 2500 144 4cyl GAS
Techniques technique techniques.
Take a center punch, hammer and at the middle to edge of the head, & create a pocket then alter the angle of attack to spin it out by whacking it with a suitable hammer. The indention usually "lifts"the head. Some heat helps because the threads are sticky with gel loctite normally applied to the threads.
Otherwise drill the head off then extract the stub with vice grips.
Dennis
yeah, figured thats my only option, but I never have had any luck using this technique.
 

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