Orton DIY - Electrical to Distribution

[Graphite Dave]

Electrical is done from shore power plug to the distribution panel. Solar panel and Morningstar MPPT controller is installed and operating. Two duplex plugs are powered with inverter supplied 120 volt power. All seems to work correctly. 120 volt power is grounded to the chassis in 3 places. 12 volt system is not grounded. Because I am not connecting the house and vehicle batteries together for charging, I did not ground the 12 volt to the chassis. All 12 volt ground wiring is routed back to the negative bus. The second 1000 watt inverter (vehicle) has not been installed. I am thinking of designing a new passenger seat base that contains the second inverter, a seat swival, outlets for 12 volt power and 120volt inverter power. The 120 volt sine wave wiring from the vehicle inverter is not installed. The selector switch that allows selection of shore 120 volt power or vehicle inverter 120 volt power is installed. The battery is a 255 amp-hr Lifeline with spade terminals. The terminals were the right choice. The Magnum inverter/charger is silent. All the electrical is located on the left side of the van above and around the rear wheel well under a bench seat. The 8D battery does fit behind the wheel well if it is raised up 3 3/8" above the floor. The battery has a hold down angle on top, is contained by the 3/8" plywood panel on seat front and has wood strips in front and back on support plywood base to limit front to back motion. The parts selection was good except for the IOTA IDP 30 distribution panel. I would use separate 120 volt and 12 volt DC panels if I did it again. All wiring is being done with "SO" cord without conduit. I did use blue plastic conduit in two places: support of solar panel cord at ceiling and up through the body at the right rear to get 12 volt power up to the lighting on that side of the van. All other wiring is surface mounted in Panduit 1 1/2" square wireways. The Panduit will only be seen on wall behind drivers seat for a short distance. Since all wiring is accessable and not buried in the walls I can add whenever I want. There are four rocker switches above the distribution panel. Two will be used for rear heater fan and the water pump. Two are spares. All 12 volt lighting will be switched at the fixture.

Also attached is the latest electrical diagram of the system.

 

[Graphite Dave]

Attached is a picture of the electrical reel mounted under 144" WB NCV3 body on left side behind the rear wheel. Reel has 14/3 wire which is adequate for my 1000 watt inverter. 3 prong cord is attached to a hook and can be released without getting under vehicle. Nothing can be seen which goes along with my requirement for a stealth van. Lowest part of reel is about 1 1/2" above the lowest part of trailer hitch.

The previous post includes a PDF of the latest electrical diagram.

Been playing with microwave ovens. I first purchased a 700 watt unit that stated it required 1050 watts to operate. Nameplate is incorrect. Actual draw was 1300 watts. Worked once but not the second time. Bought "KILL A WATT" meter to check the amperage. Found a 600 watt microwave with a nameplate rating of 850 watts. It's nameplate is also incorrect. Actual amperage was 8.8 amps or 1056 watts. I have used it twice so maybe it will work. Bottom line is do not rely on the nameplates.

 

[Frosty_1]

Hi Dave,

You mention not liking the Iota all in one panel. Why is this? Too tight of quarters to get all the wiring in?

I'm trying to pick out a panel right now and am debating my options...

frosty

 

[Graphite Dave]

You are correct. Panel is small and has about the right number of circuits for the 120 volt and the 12 volt. Problem is exactly what you surmised. Difficult to wire due to cramped space. I used cords for 120v wiring and the holes on the 120 volt side are not designed for cord grip fittings. Had to cut holes in the plastic for the fittings. On the 12 volt side it has two positive supply wires (better if it had one) and all the output positive 12 volt wires are just stubbed out. I would prefer having a terminal block as the connection instead of loose wires. I added a terminal block below the distribution panel and terminated the 12 volt wires to the terminal block. From the added terminal block I ran to the loads. If I was doing it again, I would have two distribution panels. One for 120 volt AC and another one for the 12 volts DC. Each with terminals.

 

[Geek]

Dave: I'm not sure which of your threads to ask this in - do you have any photos of how you've mounted that beautiful wood to the 8020?

I'm also interested in how you did the cabinet doors in the second photo - stunning stuff!

 

[Graphite Dave]

The 1/2" cherry plywood panels are bolted to 3/16" x 1 1/2" aluminum flatbar. I think the flatbar is 2 1/2" long. Flatbar has 11/32 hole on one end that bolts to the back of the 80/20 with a 5/16" carriage bolt. The other end has a tapped 5/16-18NC hole. Both holes are 3/4" from the end of the flatbar. Then I use a long (2"?) socket head button head screw to thread into the tapped hole in the flatbar. I use two 1" dia. nylon spacers betwen the 3/8" plywood and the flatbar. One 1/2"thick and one 3/8" thick. That leaves the plywood inset 1/8" inside the face of the 80/20. Looks much better than flush. Spacers are cheap from Plastic Components in SF Bay Area. I would be more specific if I felt like walking to the barn to confirm the dimensions and spacer source. Seems a 73 year old man should not challenge his 9 year old grandson to a foot race. He won and I pulled a ham string. Maybe I am getting old.
The doors are actually drawers. They were the easiest part. Went down the hill to a cabinet maker and had him build them from my drawings. I can do the woodworking but that was an item that I could give to someone else or I would never finish the conversion. The drawer fronts are plywood with solid cherry edges. They look great. He does nice work.
His next job will be the ends of the overhead cabinets and some sort of shelf over the sink.
I am making progress. I have to complete the wall behind the refrigerator. Then I can get the refrigerator in and running to see if the 135 watt solar panel will keep up with the load. Should be a match.

 

[daxxten]

Thanks Dave,
I've gotta study your electrical schematic.
I'm hoping to do something similar.
The cabinets look great

 

[Graphite Dave]

I have made a few more minor changes to the schematic and will repost it soon. I am waiting until I get the refrigerator installed so I can test system. Currently the state of charge stays at 99 to 100% with the solar panel because I do not have any electrical usage. My method of using two inverters to isolate my house electrical from the Sprinters electrical is not the "normal" way most people install their house systems. My house 12 volt electrical is not even grounded to the chassis. I use two wires to all loads.

 

[Graphite Dave]

Geek: Spacer source is Product Components Corp. in Martinez Ca. 800-336-0406. 3/8" thick is part # C15470 and 1/2" thick is part # C38550. You could also cut spacers to length from McMaster-Carr nylon 6/6 part # 8628K49 (5' long). Button head screws are 2" long.

 

[GeorgeRa]

I have to say I am really impressed with your work. In a few weeks we will be going to Europe for a few months so we can see Ford Transit and Fiat Ducato then make a decision which van to get. We just sold our Bigfoot trailer and I am beginning to design our new RV, going back in time to simplicity of our Wetfalias.

I have major difficulties understanding why conversion costs are so insanely high. Airstream RV conversion costs $90K, just for a conversion. I can buy equivalent living space fiberglass RV trailer for $20K which has all utilities of Sprinter conversions plus chassis, frame, suspension and wheels. We paid $7K for 1977 VW Westfalia Camper and just passenger camper was about $6K. We bought 1985 VW Westfalia Camper for $20K and just passenger was about $17. So, less than 20% penalty for Westfalia conversion. OK, did not have a hot water heater nor toilet nor shower, but Airstream 200% penalty is nuts.

But, back to electrical theme.
I studied the electrical diagram and am thinking to change it to a convertor based in lieu of 2 inverters. I would still use an inverter to power battery charger from the alternator but in a slightly different way.
On my previous vehicle I used Morningstar MPPT15 with 2x60W panels with adsorption fridge but with AC/DC fridge would likely go to higher solar wattage.
Any comments are welcome.
George.

 

[Graphite Dave]

Couple of comments:

1. Magnum is a inverter/charger/transfer switch. If it senses 120 volt shore power it just bypasses the inverter and transfers the 120 volt power directly to the duplex plugs.

2. My 600 watt vehicle inverter is a $150.00 pure sine inverter. It can not transfer 120 volt shore power to the duplex plugs. If I build another conversion, I would use a 1000 watt vehicle inverter.
3. According to my battery supplier the Xantrex inverters are made in China and are not the same quality level as the Magnum. He said the Xantrex will fail. So far my Xantrex has worked fine. I have only had to use the Xantrex twice due to lack of sun. The 135 watt Solar panel keeps the house battery charged.
4. If you locate the house battery up front close to the drivers seat base, then the heavy 12 volt wiring can be short for both the Sprinter supplied 12 v and the house battery supplied 12 volt. In my case the house battery is located in the left rear so with your idea I would have a heavy 12 volt wire running from the back of the van to the single inverter. I now run a smaller gage 120 volt wire from the front to back.

I can see from your diagam what you are thinking. You could power a charger either from the vehicle powered inverter or shore power (You would need a selector switch). As long as the charger is a high quality 3 stage charger then you would be charging properly. The shore power could be wired directly to duplex plugs than only functioned when connected to shore power. Your second source of 120 volt power could be from the inverter when the engine is running. An additional source of house battery charging would be from a solar panel through a 3 stage solar controller.
You will have a system that is isolated from the Sprinter electrical, always charges the house battery with a quality 3 stage charger and can be adjusted to optimize the charging amperage profile to match the house battery size and type. Those were the 3 main reasons for my design approach. I am assuming that the charger you select has the ability to be adjusted to match the battery. Thanks for sharing your idea. I am firmly convinced that the typical RV electrical system where the alternator charges two different size and maybe different types of batteries is not the best system design. So far my system has worked very well.

 

[GeorgeRa]

Couple of comments:

1. Magnum is a inverter/charger/transfer switch. If it senses 120 volt shore power it just bypasses the inverter and transfers the 120 volt power directly to the duplex plugs.

2. My 600 watt vehicle inverter is a $150.00 pure sine inverter. It can not transfer 120 volt shore power to the duplex plugs. If I build another conversion, I would use a 1000 watt vehicle inverter.
3. According to my battery supplier the Xantrex inverters are made in China and are not the same quality level as the Magnum. He said the Xantrex will fail. So far my Xantrex has worked fine. I have only had to use the Xantrex twice due to lack of sun. The 135 watt Solar panel keeps the house battery charged.
4. If you locate the house battery up front close to the drivers seat base, then the heavy 12 volt wiring can be short for both the Sprinter supplied 12 v and the house battery supplied 12 volt. In my case the house battery is located in the left rear so with your idea I would have a heavy 12 volt wire running from the back of the van to the single inverter. I now run a smaller gage 120 volt wire from the front to back.

I can see from your diagam what you are thinking. You could power a charger either from the vehicle powered inverter or shore power (You would need a selector switch). As long as the charger is a high quality 3 stage charger then you would be charging properly. The shore power could be wired directly to duplex plugs than only functioned when connected to shore power. Your second source of 120 volt power could be from the inverter when the engine is running. An additional source of house battery charging would be from a solar panel through a 3 stage solar controller.
You will have a system that is isolated from the Sprinter electrical, always charges the house battery with a quality 3 stage charger and can be adjusted to optimize the charging amperage profile to match the house battery size and type. Those were the 3 main reasons for my design approach. I am assuming that the charger you select has the ability to be adjusted to match the battery. Thanks for sharing your idea. I am firmly convinced that the typical RV electrical system where the alternator charges two different size and maybe different types of batteries is not the best system design. So far my system has worked very well.

I like the concept of separating vehicle battery and using multistage charger to charge battery even on the road. Xantrex product is not as good as it was. They recently got acquired by a large company so time will tell if their quality goes up. Their inverter/charger definitely has problems http://www.amazon.com/Xantrex-Prosi...dp_top_cm_cr_acr_txt?ie=UTF8&showViewpoints=1
I used Xantrex Link-10 for many years without problems. On my previous RV vehicle I had the Korean pure sine AIMS 1500W inverter and I worked very well.
George.

 

[Graphite Dave]

For your reference I paid $799.99 for the Magnum MMS1012 inverter/charger/transfer switch, $169.99 for the ME-RC50 Magnum remote control and $146.99 for the ME-BMK Magnum battery monitor on 8-3-10 from JS Marketing. The 600 watt Xantrex Prowatt SW600 true sine wave vehicle inverter cost $151.02 including freight from Camping Gear Depot 9-20-10.
The "vehicle" Xantrex inverter should have been a 1000 watt inverter instead of 600. As I recall the 1000 watt was only $50.00 more expensive and has very similar exterior dimensions.
I have found that the Magnum remote was required. It allowed me to select the correct parameters for my application. The battery monitor gives the Remote the information required to display the current condition of the house battery.

 

[Graphite Dave]

Attached is the PDF of the electrical system as installed. The two inverter system has worked very well and I will definitely use it on my next conversion. I would make a couple of changes to improve the system on the next iteration.
1. Change from 600 watt "vehicle" inverter to a 1000 watt inverter. I could then use a 600 watt Calrod immersion heater instead of a 450 watt to reduce my water heating time from 60 minutes to 40 minutes, add a 750 watt electrical resistance heater in the back of the van and increase my house battery charging rate from 30 amps to 50 amps.
2. Move the second duplex plug after the electrical reel from before the 120 volt selector switch to after the selector switch between the selector switch and the input to the house Magnum inverter. That way when I turn on the "vehicle" inverter while driving the refrigerator would run on 120 volt power and 100% of the solar controllers output would be applied to charging the house battery. As it is now installed the solar controllers output is used for both battery charging and to run the refrigerator. This change would have the effect to increase battery charging amperage by 4 amps.
3. I would add a 3 position selector switch on the output from the "vehicle" inverter. I would be able to select shower water heating, rear electrical heating or house battery charging while driving. Only one can be used at the same time.
4. Would change to a Blue Sea 5026 DC distribution panel. Much better than the Iota because it includes terminal strips and one positive feed wire instead of two. Also separating the AC from the DC panels will reduce the "rats nest" of wiring coming to one location. AC distribution would be done with Blue Sea series 7200 toggle circuit breakers.
5. Would double the size of the electrical enclosure so wiring could be done neater.

I am convinced that the two inverter system is better than the traditional method of connecting the house battery to the vehicle battery for charging for the following reasons:

1. All house battery charging is a 3 stage charge with bulk, absorb and float.
2. House battery charge rate can be set for battery size, battery type and charge rate.
3. House electrical system is completely separate from the Sprinter electrical system.
4. House system is not grounded to the chassis. Two wires run to each load.

The disadvantage is you must manually initiate charging from the "vehicle" inverter. It is not automatic. Could be automated but charging with the "vehicle" inverter is not used often enough to justify the automation. The solar panel controller with sunny days maintains the battery at 100% SOC with refrigerator running. The only time I need to charge with the "vehicle" inverter is prolonged gray days.