Really? How could anyone put gas petrol in a diesel?

220629

Well-known member
I’ve read about those stupid people who put gasoline in their diesel tank by mistake. I just knew I was too attentive to ever do something quite as dumb as that. I pulled into the station I frequently use. The gasoline and diesel fill nozzles are on the same pump. Gas is black, diesel is green. Gas is on the left, diesel is on the right. So I swipe my card, pull the handle and start pumping. “Wonder what the price is today… $3.79, not bad… oh sh*t.”

Let go the handle. 0.879 gallon of gasoline is now in my tank. Hang up gas nozzle. I was wool gathering…. distracted…. in deep thought. Nope, it appears I am stupid. I must be because that is what I thought about this happening to others.

0.9 gallons… 25(+) gallon tank. About 5% petrol contaminations if my math is correct. Glug in some Power Service additive, fill tank with diesel, rock Sprinter back and forth, add almost another 2 gallons after that. Drive home with no apparent engine performance issues. Add a pint of TCW3 2 cycle outboard motor oil. Rock Sprinter back and forth again to mix. (Now any neighbors who are watching me are absolutely convinced that I’m nuts.)

Searched the internet to see how much trouble I’m in.

Well, it depends on who you believe. Some of the adamant ones say any gasoline and I’m screwed with a newer design diesel. Others say that up north people actually add gasoline to diesel for extreme cold conditions. I found a couple that said anything around a 5% contamination should be fine, but adding a bit of TCW3 2 cycle outboard engine oil will help with any loss of lubrication.

So I decided to ride it out. Here are some stats so far.


0.9 gallons petrol added accidentally.
Filled to top off (25 gallon)
3.6% concentration of petrol.

Added Power service and 1 pint of 2 cycle TCW3 oil to help combat possible lubrication loss by petrol.

At approx. 100 miles I added 4 gallons diesel for dilution.
@ approx. 3.6% concentration I figure I had 0.75 gallon petrol left in 21 gallons.
The 4 gallons diluted that down to around 3% petrol.

120 miles added 4.7 gallons diesel. (Fuel neck still smelled of petrol at 3%.)
@ approx. 3% concentration I had 0.6 gallon petrol left in approx. 21 gallons
The next 4 gallons diluted me down to around 2.5% petrol.
Added another pint of 2 cycle TCW3 oil.

125 miles added 4.9 gallons diesel.
@ approx. 2.5% concentration I had 0.48 gallons left in approx 20 gallons.
The 5 added gallons diluted me down to around 1.9% petrol.
Added some glugs of Power Service Diesel clean.

136 miles added 5.4 gallons diesel fuel.
@ approx. 1.9% concentration I had 0.38 gallons.
The added 5.4 gallons diluted me down to around 1.5% petrol.
Added some glugs of 2 cycle TCW3 oil (big bottle), then added a couple more.

Interestingly I can still smell petrol at the fuel fill neck with that approx. 2% concentration. It may be contamination hanging in the filler neck though. I'm surprised at how many 5 gallon fills it's taken to get to 1.5%. Checking the gross math it basically works out though. (Math is not my strong suit.) I started with about 3.6% concentration at 25 gallons. After adding about 20 gallons of new fuel I'm at about 1.5% now. Rough numbers I know. Anyway, that helps show what it takes to dilute out a tank of bad fuel.

My sincere apologies go out to those people I previously thought were stupid. :hugs: vic

*************
Based upon the data that I have from my one gas in the tank misadventure, I'm convinced that the electric fuel pump can be used to empty the tank enough for a top off of good diesel to dilute the gas to acceptable level. (For the OM612 suck pump a small electric fuel pump can be connected to the fuel filter inlet hose.) The gallon or so heel left in the tank is diluted by 25 gallon diesel top off.


EDIT: Some condensed information copied from the more complete Post #81 in this same thread.

Confirmation that the fuel tank can be effectively emptied using the fuel pump.



The only thing that I would add for the procedure is that it might be worthwhile to grab a quart of TCW3 2 cycle oil while at the store getting fuel containers. That will help to offset any loss of lubricity which can be a factor of gasoline addition/contamination.

The thread is here. Thanks goes to Fishermunn.

https://sprinter-source.com/forums/showthread.php?t=23886

vic

Edit: Another thought...
The T1N fuel pump relay is under the driver seat. Someone with a bit of electrical knowledge and a jumper wire could pull the relay and run the fuel pump directly. That will avoid the fuel pump timeout and the need to cycle the key off and on.


The fuel relay location.

022FuseRelayBlocksUnderSeat.jpg

023a2004FuseBlock2PicNotes1.jpg

The fuel relay pin designations.

009PowerDistributionSm1Notes.jpg

Note: Have all hoses and containers in place before installing the jumper wire.

FuelPumpRelay_NCV3jumperT1N.jpg

Some NCV3 specific fuel pump relay info is here.
https://sprinter-source.com/forums/showthread.php?p=331624#post331624

P.S. - The Sprinter fuel pump to empty the contaminated tank idea will not work with OM612 diesel engine Sprinters. They have a mechanical low pressure fuel pump, not an electric pump.
PM Info said:
Here are 2 each inexpensive fuel pumps either of which which I believe can be used to empty the tank on your OM612 engine with mechanical suck pump. You may need to prime these pumps, but once they are pumping they should pretty much empty the tank. (Approx. 30 gallons per hour.)

W8sunjs Universal 12V Heavy Duty Electric Fuel Pump Metal Solid Petrol 12 Volts
http://www.amazon.com/W8sunjs-Unive...8?s=automotive&ie=UTF8&qid=1455933891&sr=1-12

Hilitchi Universal 12V Low Pressure Gas Diesel Inline Electric Fuel Pump (Model:HEP-02A)
http://www.amazon.com/Hilitchi-Univ...8?s=automotive&ie=UTF8&qid=1455934062&sr=1-30
If there is significant injection hi pump damage due to mis-fueling, the metallic evidence will typically collect and be visible at the return fuel line's diverter valve.

On the 612, this plastic diverter valve is located on the top of the fuel filter.

On the 647 this valve is located just above the fuel cooler at the rear of the tank.

The 612's valve is somewhat easier to access and inspect because it only has 2 fittings and clamps. The 647 has 4.

Doktor A
As always, clicking the blue arrow icon within the quote box will take you to the original thread.

An Overview of Removing Gas Petrol from a Diesel Tank
Thanks goes to Lindenengineering Dennis. :thumbup:

Well I wrote the post in abstract based upon limited info and so much like any post & its written information.

Now from experience putting gasoline in a diesel fuel tank isn't the end of the world as some might suggest.
Essentially gasoline has the same molecule train as diesel, just rearranged differently so it doesn't burn too well.
So you get an acrid exhaust stink & limp mod-ing.
Really boiled down its what you do to the engine & its FIE system. That means what immediate steps are taken to rectify the issue using the term sooner or later! Later being the operative word here.

My business has done "oudles "of these "repairs" and the real beneficiary is our shop's waste oil heaters.

We have set procedure, and a hose with a male barbed adapter. Attached to the main fuel line, and then cycle the ignition switch auto pumping the tank out until its as "dry" as you can get. That will leave about 2 gallons dwelling around the pump bucket "tops".
It take an average about 20 minutes to empty it.

Then bung in a good lubricity additive like BG245 or Stanadayne Performance Plus, followed by a full ish tank of diesel. Any residual gasoline will be diluted to no real concern.
Throw out the fuel filter(s)--& replace!
One on a Sprinter, Several on other brands and do a quick rail & line purge plus bleed up, preferably using a fuel pressure to see what pressure we get from the lift pump working.
If its to spec don't sweat the small stuff!
Go for a fire up and then a test drive .
In 999,9999% of the time it will be fine, BUT we did encounter one specimen that was driven about 250 miles, ignoring the loss of power !
Now that did the injectors & HPOP in, and we couldn't raise rail pressure to enable a start.
So again the word LATER is operative here!

So a fixed shop rate of 2,5 hours, one fuel filter (Sprinter) , one bottle of additive, & 20 gallons of DERV.
Not a serious wallet dinger!


The real issue is water & crap in bunkered fuel at gas stations!
Now that really does do expensive damage in a short space of time and a real wallet flusher!
But that is something else & quite a different set of circumstances prevailing.
Dennis
Added:
From Dennis. :thumbup: For diesels with an in tank fuel pump.

The Drill!
Did this last week in a Dodge dealer parking lot.
Disconnect the hose at the filter , and attach a 8ft length of 3/8 fuel hose plus 3/8 barb to the open hose.
Place hose in 5 gallon jerry and have at least 5 cans available if the tank is full.
Switch in ignition to power up the instrument pack, and this will power up the in tank pump for 16 to 30 seconds .
Repeat the switch on, switch off, switch on procedure until you have drained the entire tank.
Bung in 5 gallons of fresh DERV [diesel fuel], and pump through a further half to one gallon or so.
Change the fuel filter, connect up, [top off with fresh fuel] and switch the pump on through 3 cycles then go for a fire up.
All too easy
Dennis
Added:

VS30 Note for Tank Drain

Per Lindenengineering Dennis there is no fuel pump relay for VS30 Sprinters. The fuel pump is controlled by the ECM aka ECU. Multiple key on/off cycles to power the fuel pump are limited with a wait time imposed after a few cycles. Draining a VS30 fuel tank could require a tank drop, or needs an added fuel pump or syphoning method.

A recent comment.
The BG 244 or 245 is the most expensive option & we use it religiously when the fuel has been diluted with gasoline or water as a Hail Mary after having purged the fuel system out and filled with fresh DERV.

To answer
Yes Stanadyne Performance plus takes some beating on price, dosing and availability,
We have known it to clear a plugged DPF --Much to our surprise.
Both are good products with positive customer revues .
Dennis
 
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lindenengineering

Well-known member
Re: Really? How could anyone put gasoline in a diesel?

Yes Vic
At times we have all done it!
I never criticize folk who have lost oil and coolant......I used to be very critical until I lost an engine climbing the Continental Divide in my then ride a diesel Volvo station wagon. I happened to state to the missus that the thing was running very well a few seconds before it let go with no warning!

I have seen a few over the years but one that stays in my mind on fuel dilution was a Dodge Cummins rigs that came in the shop with eye watering exhaust vapors and rough running.
Hooking it up to a slave tank with good known fuel it suddenly ran fine! Uh Ho! bad fuel???
Was the comment!
A sample of fuel thrown onto a sheet of steel in the sun and some schoolboy pyrotechnics outside the shop at we got the flash of gasoline.

That truck we still see from time to time running with no adverse affects AND it has that dreaded VP pump on it known for taking a dump at the slightest provocation.
So don't sweat the small stuff
Cheers Dennis
 
B

boxcar

Guest
Re: Really? How could anyone put gasoline in a diesel?

.
Confession is good for the soul, they say. Thanks for your transparency & honesty, Aqua. :)

Am thinking you'll be okay with so relatively small of an add of gasoline %-wise. You certainly took care of any loss of lubricity that the petrol would cause. A slight cetane drop from the boo-boo could be at least partially offset by premium diesel fuel, perhaps? It appears you are handling this well on a couple of levels. Your gasoline "additive" is now diluted to the point that it seems to me you should consider running out the tank entirely to get rid of the remainder. When you get it all out of there then I'd consider running a pint & a half of Seafoam through the fuel tank with a full fresh load of fuel.

Best to you.

.
 
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glasseye

Well-known member
Re: Really? How could anyone put gasoline in a diesel?

My sincere apologies go out to those people I previously thought were stupid. :hugs: vic
If it can happen to you, it can happen to anybody. Thanks for the reminder that we're all human. Good recovery from the error, too.

One thing I do as often is take a sniff from the end of the pump nozzle. There's no doubt then about what's in that hose.
 

sikwan

06 Tin Can
Re: Really? How could anyone put gasoline in a diesel?

Well I hope I never have to run into this, but at least I know what to do if I mistakenly dropped in under a gallon of that stuff.
 

Seerpsy

Seerpsy
Re: Really? How could anyone put gasoline in a diesel?

When GM (Government Motors) was making their "wonderful" and highly tested diesels in the late 70's and early 80's they stated right in the owners manual that if you were desperate for fuel you could run with a 20-25% gas blend. However, they stated you should then not put significant strain on the engine. Are there any of those wonderful engines still running?
 

topless

Wichita, KS
Re: Really? How could anyone put gasoline in a diesel?

When GM (Government Motors) was making their "wonderful" and highly tested diesels in the late 70's and early 80's they stated right in the owners manual that if you were desperate for fuel you could run with a 20-25% gas blend. However, they stated you should then not put significant strain on the engine. Are there any of those wonderful engines still running?
Those engine blocks were stronger and heavier than a standard 350 gas motor, I know guys that built some killer race car motors using them. Most ran blowers on them because the cylinder pressure is comparable or less than the diesel was.
 

jmgasior

jmgasior
Re: Really? How could anyone put gasoline in a diesel?

just returning from out west,found out in the different states the rubber cover on the pump nozzle is not standard,it could be green, yellow,or orange,we are used to green and one day my wife caught me with a green nozzle in my hand(gasoline)Im always so careful but that day I almost blew it/Sure would make sense that the nozzles not be interchangeable.accidents are easy to happen.thanks
 

brassarl

2006 T1N 2500 Long & Tall
Re: Really? How could anyone put gasoline in a diesel?

Ditto! Did the same last January in Yuma AZ with my 6.2L GM, one gallon and a bit in a 34 gallon tank of diesel. Like you there was a distraction and the big oops!! :idunno: You were much more diligent in topping up your tank, I did not and all seemed well. Yes a friend of mine with a Ford diesel found it necessary to dump a gallon of gas into a tankful of "fall" blended fuel in Edmonton and all was well. So I guess there is some leeway?:thinking:
Lou

I’ve read about those stupid people who put gasoline in their diesel tank by mistake. I just knew I was too attentive to ever do something quite as dumb as that. I pulled into the station I frequently use. The gasoline and diesel fill nozzles are on the same pump. Gas is black, diesel is green. Gas is on the left, diesel is on the right. So I swipe my card, pull the handle and start pumping. “Wonder what the price is today… $3.79, not bad… oh sh*t.”
 

OrioN

2008 2500 170" EXT
Re: Really? How could anyone put gasoline in a diesel?

Confession or not... I still vote you go to Heck. :D:

Want to know my secret? I look for the back 'oil' stain on the ground under the handle to make sure I'm at the diesel one. Why? If it's really bad, I put cardboard down to keep my shoes clean. Why? My dog sleeps on the mat on my side. Not good for him.


So... what was the performance like?
 
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220629

Well-known member
Re: Really? How could anyone put gasoline in a diesel?

Yes Vic
At times we have all done it!
...
So don't sweat the small stuff
Cheers Dennis
I'm not too concerned... now. Just sharing experience.
...

One thing I do as often is take a sniff from the end of the pump nozzle. There's no doubt then about what's in that hose.
That is great advice and what I normally do. No excuses.

...
You were much more diligent in topping up your tank,
...
Lou
I worked in a chemical research facility for years. One of the things I learned from joking chemists was "The solution to pollution is dilution." This time it was actually the right thing to do.
Confession or not... I still vote you go to Heck. :D:

Want to know my secret? I look for the black 'oil' stain on the ground under the handle to make sure I'm at the diesel one.
...

So... what was the performance like?
Actually I was standing in a black 'oil' stain. Both nozzles were on the same pump. The stain was rather large.

There was no noticeable change in performance or mpg as compared to uncontaminated fuel that I could notice.

SMELL THE NOZZLE!

Icarus
Yep. Mostly I do. This time I didn't? Oh well....

vic
 

Altered Sprinter

Happy Little Vegemite
Re: Really? How could anyone put gasoline in a diesel?

Aqua Puttana I worked in a chemical research facility for years. One of the things I learned from joking chemists was "The solution to pollution is dilution." This time it was actually the right thing to do. [I said:
What vic did not reveal about the habits of 'petrol sniffers'.

Yep. Mostly I do. This time I didn't? Oh well....:shifty:
And the long term consequences is?

vic
From the Sprinters manual of useless information.

body_petrol.gif
:rolleyes:
 

AddicksAir

New member
Re: Really? How could anyone put gasoline in a diesel?

So Vic, did you do all that driving/filling in 1 day? Get on the Thruway and just go?
Thanks for sharing with the rest of us so we don't get lax.
 

220629

Well-known member
Re: Really? How could anyone put gasoline in a diesel?

...

And the long term consequences is?
...
No worse than living in your well sealed, energy efficient home where people dispense hair spray, deoderants, cleaning products, perfumes, body lotions, room fresheners, and other chemicals with wild abandon. :hmmm:

An occassional sniff of a diesel nozzle is not "huffing" and it's nowhere near as bad as petrol. FWIW. vic
 

Altered Sprinter

Happy Little Vegemite
Re: Really? How could anyone put gasoline in a diesel?

No worse than living in your well sealed, energy efficient home where people dispense hair spray, deoderants, cleaning products, perfumes, body lotions, room fresheners, and other chemicals with wild abandon. :hmmm:

An occassional sniff of a diesel nozzle is not "huffing" and it's nowhere near as bad as petrol. FWIW. vic
Green Energy efficiency leaves a lesser carbon print:tongue:

rough-guide-to-green-living.jpg
 

220629

Well-known member
Re: Really? How could anyone put gasoline in a diesel?

So Vic, did you do all that driving/filling in 1 day? Get on the Thruway and just go?
Dennis,

:lol::lol:
Vic here. That would cost money. :bounce:

Nope. I considered whether letting the contaminated fuel keep in contact with the system parts would matter over a day vs a week and decided it wasn't an issue I was willing to worry about. The fill up schedule has been over the last week or so.


Thanks for sharing with the rest of us so we don't get lax.
I figured a heads up might help, but awareness is no guarantee, at least it isn't for me it seems.

I guess a couple significant things are that I could still smell petrol at 2% so it is detectable at low levels. Another is that if more gasoline is put into a tank than I did, just emptying the fuel tank completely and maybe some forced air drying should be enough. In my opinion subsequent multiple flushes and rinses of a tank would be a waste of time, money and resources, based solely upon this one instance to date. vic
 

kmessinger

Active member
Re: Really? How could anyone put gasoline in a diesel?

Anyone who does this should be removed from the gene pool. Really, there is NO excuse other that stupidity which yes, should be removed from the gene pool.
 

220629

Well-known member
Re: Really? How could anyone put gasoline in a diesel?

Anyone who does this should be removed from the gene pool. Really, there is NO excuse other that stupidity which yes, should be removed from the gene pool.
I make no excuses. I really don't like swimming much anyway. :thumbup: vic
 

kmessinger

Active member
Re: Really? How could anyone put gasoline in a diesel?

I make no excuses. I really don't like swimming much anyway. :thumbup: vic
I've got to stop posting after cocktail hour . . . :frown: Sorry. Anyone who has a Sprinter should stay in the gene pool. The traits they have are important to the survival of the species!:smilewink:
 

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