Its NOT Lexus Sumitomo

[lindenengineering]

Take note
One of my frequent refrains working at the "pointed" end
Dennis

 

[irvingj]

Thanks, Dennis.

Yep. Had too many tastes of that "electronic fragility" with our 2015 Sprinter...which is pretty simple compared to new ones. Likewise for diesel power -- don't think I'll ever buy a new one of those, either -- too many "sensors on sensors" as I call it.

Remember when solid state ignition first came out? Great idea, but not real reliable for the first, mmm...how many years?. Electronics and automobiles can be a difficult combination.

 

[fourthgear]

You can add every auto manufacturer to the list of electronic fragility . Not to mention all the Engines of many name brands self destroying .

We are in some trying times in the manufacturing of Cars/Trucks .

 

[lindenengineering]

YES
Including trying to fix a Ford PU with a 6.4 diesel in it.
Nightmarishly expensive to fix.
The other is this ridiculous price to reinstate all these popular Nissan Leaf-ies.
Currently looking at battery alternatives to get away from a 30 mile range after a full charge session.
Alot of this stuff is really badly conceived, and expensively unreliable.
Dennis

 

[Green Maned Lion]

I have said it once, and I will say it many times again, older is better. If I had time to do the work on it, I'd be driving a TN, not a Sprinter. There is nothing better than a fully mechanical OM615/616/617.

 

[Dax Travels]

That "documentary" is obvious AI slop. The sentiment is rooted in reality but so many dumb hyperbolic AI statements.

Interesting that so many complain about complexity (and the reduced reliability that follows) of features, while insisting on an ethic of always more more more(!), including those features.

So many here are well versed in scientific principles like basic physics and the laws of thermal dynamics and accept them as TRUTH. Yet, have privileged blind spots that don't allow them to see similar principles in economics, ecology and the human policies that (poorly) attempt to manage them.

 

[lindenengineering]

I have said it once, and I will say it many times again, older is better. If I had time to do the work on it, I'd be driving a TN, not a Sprinter. There is nothing better than a fully mechanical OM615/616/617.

The issue is parts and planned obsolescence.
Even T1N Sprinters are now devoid of vital parts to keep this stuff running.
There is only so much you can make in the back garden shed you know!
Dennis

 

[Green Maned Lion]

The issue is parts and planned obsolescence.
Even T1N Sprinters are now devoid of vital parts to keep this stuff running.
There is only so much you can make in the back garden shed you know!
Dennis

Eh, its just money, Dennis. If I can keep 100 year old stoves going, I'm sure it is possible to keep a van powered by an engine that is still basically in production (Force Motors, India, and Iran Khodro, Iran) running. Its a very simple box compared to even a T1N.

 

[lindenengineering]

That "documentary" is obvious AI slop. The sentiment is rooted in reality but so many dumb hyperbolic AI statements.

Interesting that so many complain about complexity (and the reduced reliability that follows) of features, while insisting on an ethic of always more more more(!), including those features.

So many here are well versed in scientific principles like basic physics and the laws of thermal dynamics and accept them as TRUTH. Yet, have privileged blind spots that don't allow them to see similar principles in economics, ecology and the human policies that (poorly) attempt to manage them.

Actually these faults mentioned are often seen and experiences by us who are commissioned to fix this stuff------MB products are fraught with issues highlighted----- AND then we have keyboard experts who try to tell us professionals how we are doing it all wrong.
These days "I read it on the forums seems to be the repair auricle!
Dennis

 

[lindenengineering]

Eh, its just money, Dennis. If I can keep 100 year old stoves going, I'm sure it is possible to keep a van powered by an engine that is still basically in production (Force Motors, India, and Iran Khodro, Iran) running. Its a very simple box compared to even a T1N.

OK
Ask them if they will build you a new engine or chassis harness?.------Something we do in house--'Cos nobody will go near it for the LIMITED production number involved.
Dennis

 

[Green Maned Lion]

OK
Ask them if they will build you a new engine or chassis harness?.------Something we do in house--'Cos nobody will go near it for the LIMITED production number involved.
Dennis

Limited production numbers? Over the past 50 years they have built millions of OM615/616/617 engines, and hundreds of thousands of TN vans were built, if not more. In fact, Force still markets an updated version of the TN for which many of the body parts and such still fit the old chassis. Besides, this stuff is simple as heck.

Working on a Sprinter, I'd definitely need somebody like you. Working on one of these, I could do myself. I'm not advocating old cars as a solution for everybody; in my current circumstances... well that's a VS30 sitting in my driveway, right? I don't have the time to be doing continuity checks on 30+ year old wires and stuff like that. But when I move out to the country and retire, that will be a different kettle of fish.

But for people who insist they want to do the work themselves and have the things not throw them all kinds of computer problems they don't understand? You won't have computer problems on TN. Certain components are required for computer problems, and those components aren't present.

 

[Rocksnsalt]

AI (which I despise) or not, there’s a few bs statements but more truth in this video.

Some on this forum have experienced numerous glitches, and friends of mine bought a new MB SUV and had nothing but problems, they are now “never again” regarding MB… which was their dream car before.

Which is why I’m considering a Transit AWD if I buy another van.

 

[Dax Travels]

Actually these faults mentioned are often seen and experiences by us who are commissioned to fix this stuff------MB products are fraught with issues highlighted----- AND then we have keyboard experts who try to tell us professionals how we are doing it all wrong.
These days "I read it on the forums seems to be the repair auricle!
Denis

Don't get me wrong, I don't disagree, my issue with AI slop aside. Even a broken clock is correct twice a day.

We are part of the system that produces this stuff, that's all.

Any experience with the W12 Phaeton? That car alone proves this AI slop's point.

 

[Kajtek1]

I just love it, when video shows CEL and oil light and explains "auxiliary battery problem"
But it is true that bad mechanics can turn car ownership into nightmare.
I was surprised how cheaply 2-3 years old Electric MB cars and SUV sell on Copart.
Check with my indy and he said, they require very expensive computers and salvage title voids all warranties.
So, yes it doesn't take much for $100,000 Mercedes, be worth 15 grands.

 

[Dax Travels]

Which is why I’m considering a Transit AWD if I buy another van.

I'd start over with a GM or Ford with a normally aspired V8 if I ever do. @Midwestdrifter has the right idea IMO.

I often miss my 80s Toyota Hiluxes. Simple, capable and reliable. I hardly remember the almost total lack of features. My 1980 4X4 didn't even have power steering and would barely keep up with traffic. Man I miss that truck.

 

[Rocksnsalt]

@lindenengineering Dennis are you seeing or hearing of electronics issues with late model Toyota, Lexus, Honda, or more of interest to me - Ford Transit AWD?

And yes @Dax Travels I like what MWD is doing, I should probably find one of those to take for a drive…

 

[lindenengineering]

Don't get me wrong, I don't disagree, my issue with AI slop aside. Even a broken clock is correct twice a day.

We are part of the system that produces this stuff, that's all.

Any experience with the W12 Phaeton? That car alone proves this AI slop's point.

Bejezus
One session fixing the timing chains was enough!
Of "curse" of course that "W" engine still rolls on in a Bentley--
Dennis

 

[EBS-P]

AI (which I despise) or not, there’s a few bs statements but more truth in this video.

Some on this forum have experienced numerous glitches, and friends of mine bought a new MB SUV and had nothing but problems, they are now “never again” regarding MB… which was their dream car before.

Which is why I’m considering a Transit AWD if I buy another van.

What is Ford doing differently. There are probably 1-3 dozen control modules on a Transit. Who makes these modules it’s not Ford or Benz I’m guessing. I looked hard at the Transit. I was laughed off by the salesman when I asked about an order in mid 2023. Might have been early 2024.

take your pic. I think volume will be the biggest asset in getting problems fixed. If you’ve never seen that issue before it may take a long time to solve. I don’t see any flaws in MB approach that says they will be less prone to failures. To me the issue training technicians well. Who has better techs Ford or MB commercial dealers?

How good is the third party support? Any local mechanic probably has quite a bit of experience with a ford V6 NA and turbo and the 10 speed. Any transit oriented shop had experience with MB systems.

these electrical gremlins are edge cases. See video below. You better have techs trained on using multi channel oscilloscopes.

 

[Rocksnsalt]

What is Ford doing differently. There are probably 1-3 dozen control modules on a Transit. Who makes these modules it’s not Ford or Benz I’m guessing. I looked hard at the Transit. I was laughed off by the salesman when I asked about an order in mid 2023. Might have been early 2024.

take your pic. I think volume will be the biggest asset in getting problems fixed. If you’ve never seen that issue before it may take a long time to solve. I don’t see any flaws in MB approach that says they will be less prone to failures. To me the issue training technicians well. Who has better techs Ford or MB commercial dealers?

How good is the third party support? Any local mechanic probably has quite a bit of experience with a ford V6 NA and turbo and the 10 speed. Any transit oriented shop had experience with MB systems.

these electrical gremlins are edge cases. See video below. You better have techs trained on using multi channel oscilloscopes.

Problematic systems and design flaws are the main issue.
German engineering excellence my ass. I know bmw’s have their share of issues (and have for years), not sure about Porsche. The 4 I had in the past were pretty much trouble free, but newer gens out now.

Like the condensation intrusion on module common on VS30’s. I mean MB even sells a bag to cover the module… but have they done anything to stop the issue from occurring? Not that I’m aware of.
Maybe they’ve re oriented the module by now Idk.

Does MB install the bag at the factory for this issue they are obviously aware of?
Do they warranty the issue?
NOPE. Maybe not even if you paid for an extended warranty.
As much as I like the looks, fit and finish, comfort, better tire options and ground clearance, and the way my Sprinter drives compared to a Transit… it’s very doubtful I’d buy another MB product. It’d have to be one helluva deal.

Trained techs is one part of the issue - once the problems occur.
In some cases it’s a new issue and no training/bulletins on it.
And being restricted to 350(?) mb sprinter dealerships in the entire US vs Ford having over 3000(?) dealers.
And then the cost of services at an MB dealer 🤣🤦🏽‍♂️🤬

This type of stuff and cost of ownership has me looking at other options for the future.

 

[Kajtek1]

Bare in mind that new technology always come with "baby teeth".
20 years ago, all educated owners of new vehicle would carry spare MAF and CPS.
No matter Mercedes, or Ford, those early sensors were failing like crazy and would live you stranded.
Few years of improvements and nobody is worrying about MAF of CPS anymore, as they outlast the vehicle.
As for service, it is pretty regional.
I still remember from Pasadena, CA, that 1 mile drive on main street passed 3 "German automobile" shops. All with pretty educated mechanics.
Fixing MB in AZ turned a nightmare.
Even my last issue with Bluetec sedan took 3 visit as the mechanic had a problem with SCN coding.
When I might be the only Bluetec sedan owner in Las Vegas, there is lot of Sprinters limos here, but they have separate shop.