Wiring Two Victron Orion XS DC/DC Chargers

[mceaton125]

Hi Everyone -

I am looking to install two separate Orion XS DC/DC Chargers. My plan is to set each to 40A for a total charge to my battery bank of 80A.

The total circuit length will be about 25 feet, as my batteries will be close to the driver's side wheel well (I am not open to moving the batteries closer to the front of the truck unless absolutely necessary). I have seen others wiring in parallel using larger gauge wire for the run from the connection terminal under the driver's seat to a terminal stud and then using smaller gauge wire for the run to the chargers.

I'm looking at the BEG guide and the max gauge wire that can fit on the A2 terminal on the auxiliary battery tapping point is 35mm2 which won't cut it for my purposes if I am sizing wire for 100A (max charging current if both Orions are used at max) at that circuit length.

My other idea is wiring one charger to the A1 terminal and the other to the A2 terminal using smaller gauge wire that will better fit the terminals for the run and connecting each charger separately to the bus bars.

WouId this work alright? Do we think there would be any issues with the chargers not cooperating with each other if wired separately in this way?
I just want to confirm I am not missing anything before I decide to go this route.

Thank you for your help!

 

[blutow]

My other idea is wiring one charger to the A1 terminal and the other to the A2 terminal using smaller gauge wire that will better fit the terminals for the run and connecting each charger separately to the bus bars.

WouId this work alright? Do we think there would be any issues with the chargers not cooperating with each other if wired separately in this way?
I just want to confirm I am not missing anything before I decide to go this route.

No issues I can think of as long as each of those wire runs is fused appropriate to the wire size. And no issues with chargers working together as long as you align the charge profiles.

My plan is to set each to 40A for a total charge to my battery bank of 80A.

Those new chargers are supposed to be pretty efficient, but keep in mind that 80a of output will require more than 80a draw on the chassis system/alternator (which is the max limit per MB specs). Hopefully, the configuration allows you to limit the input side to ensure you don't exceed the max.

Being able to configure the input/output is a nice feature. My system uses 2 of the older style Orions that are pretty inefficient and there is no configuration to change the max input/output (all I can do is turn them on and off). They will pull close to 80a when cool, but quickly throttle that back to high 60's once they quickly heat up. I really wish the XS was available when I built my system. It's smart to design the system around 100a draw and I'd personally consider running them at 50a each if I needed to charge quicker when driving on the highway. All I can do with mine is turn them on and off based on whether I need to charge while driving and how quickly. It's definitely worth managing the alternator charging, it's a noticeable load on the engine and I figure there is no reason to make the engine/alternator work harder when charging isn't needed.

 

[Motormad]

You don't mention your -ve connection path. If you are using the van body for the -ve connections (i.e. your leisure battery -ve is attached to the van body and you are using non-isolated Orions) then you can ignore the -ve cable length from the calculation. Most calculators double the distance entered to allow for cable to and from the load. In addition, if you install the Orions close to the leisure batteries (the recommended solution), then the voltage drop between the van connection and the Orions is not as important as the Orions will compensate and still provide the correct voltage to the LB's. Also worth running a piece of string over the route to get the actual length, but I think you might find 35mm² adequate for the 100A current.

I have a pair of XS's, and have a solution that dials them back to 40A total (20A each) at low speeds (below 50mph) and allows for 100A charging at speeds above 50 which seems to be working well.

 

[blutow]

I have a pair of XS's, and have a solution that dials them back to 40A total (20A each) at low speeds (below 50mph) and allows for 100A charging at speeds above 50 which seems to be working well.

That sounds great. How did you do it?

 

[mceaton125]

You don't mention your -ve connection path. If you are using the van body for the -ve connections (i.e. your leisure battery -ve is attached to the van body and you are using non-isolated Orions) then you can ignore the -ve cable length from the calculation. Most calculators double the distance entered to allow for cable to and from the load. In addition, if you install the Orions close to the leisure batteries (the recommended solution), then the voltage drop between the van connection and the Orions is not as important as the Orions will compensate and still provide the correct voltage to the LB's. Also worth running a piece of string over the route to get the actual length, but I think you might find 35mm² adequate for the 100A current.

I have a pair of XS's, and have a solution that dials them back to 40A total (20A each) at low speeds (below 50mph) and allows for 100A charging at speeds above 50 which seems to be working well.

My plan is to use a Lynx Distributor and I was going to run the negative cable from the power tapping point under the driver's seat to the Orion and then to the distributor. The distributor has a built in negative bus so my plan was to use that for all my equipment.

Can you help me understand the set up using the van body as negative? My understanding is that I couldn't just use the body as negative connection point for Options and bus bar for everything else.

I could move the Oripns closer to the front of the van but is it reasonable to almost completely ignore the V drop from the Orions to the leisure battery?

Thank you for your help!

 

[blutow]

My understanding is that I couldn't just use the body as negative connection point for Options and bus bar for everything else.

You can use the body as a negative path from the chassis battery/alternator, it's fairly common. Just make sure the ground point is solid using something like this JL Audio lug.

I could move the Oripns closer to the front of the van but is it reasonable to almost completely ignore the V drop from the Orions to the leisure battery?

Much better to have the Orions close to the leisure/house battery rather than the chassis battery/alternator. The Orion input voltage isn't critical, it's the voltage being supplied to the house batteries that needs to be tightly controlled. Ideally, the orions are right next to the house batteries, but distance to the chassis battery/alternator doesn't matter as long as the wire size can safely carry the amps.

Victron does have an option where it can automagically compensate for voltage drop on the output side for all connected chargers. With a cerbo device, you can tell the system to use a reference voltage near the house battery (most commonly the shunt) and then all your chargers will throttle their output voltage as needed to compensate for the voltage drop. There might be ways to do that without a Cerbo managing it, not sure about that.

 

[mceaton125]

You can use the body as a negative path from the chassis battery/alternator, it's fairly common. Just make sure the ground point is solid using something like this JL Audio lug.
View attachment 387603

Much better to have the Orions close to the leisure/house battery rather than the chassis battery/alternator. The Orion input voltage isn't critical, it's the voltage being supplied to the house batteries that needs to be tightly controlled. Ideally, the orions are right next to the house batteries, but distance to the chassis battery/alternator doesn't matter as long as the wire size can safely carry the amps.

Victron does have an option where it can automagically compensate for voltage drop on the output side for all connected chargers. With a cerbo device, you can tell the system to use a reference voltage near the house battery (most commonly the shunt) and then all your chargers will throttle their output voltage as needed to compensate for the voltage drop. There might be ways to do that without a Cerbo managing it, not sure about that.

Okay so I just want to ensure I understand here (thank you for your patience).

For the run from the power tapping point to the Orions I can run the positive cable the distance between the two and the negative cable a short distance to the van body using the audio lug you shared. This will essentially cut the circuit distance in half allowing me to use smaller gauge wire for the run.

Between the Orions and the Lynx Distributor am I running the negative wire as normal (from negative screw terminal on Orion to the negative bus on the distributor)? Or would I also connect the negative wire coming out of the Orions to the van body?

Thank you!

 

[blutow]

For the run from the power tapping point to the Orions I can run the positive cable the distance between the two and the negative cable a short distance to the van body using the audio lug you shared. This will essentially cut the circuit distance in half allowing me to use smaller gauge wire for the run.

It doesn't technically reduce the wire run length, you are just replacing a negative wire with the van body for the return path. But again, I wouldn't stress the distance and potential voltage drop on the input side. Just size and fuse the wire for the max amps you will be pulling.

Between the Orions and the Lynx Distributor am I running the negative wire as normal (from negative screw terminal on Orion to the negative bus on the distributor)? Or would I also connect the negative wire coming out of the Orions to the van body?

Just from the Orion to the lynx.

 

[mkeys]

I have a pair of XS's, and have a solution that dials them back to 40A total (20A each) at low speeds (below 50mph) and allows for 100A charging at speeds above 50 which seems to be working well.

You are the first person I've heard of doing something like this. Makes a lot of sense though. Please share some more information or considering writing a 'guide' here on the forums for others to follow.

 

[mceaton125]

It doesn't technically reduce the wire run length, you are just replacing a negative wire with the van body for the return path. But again, I wouldn't stress the distance and potential voltage drop on the input side. Just size and fuse the wire for the max amps you will be pulling.

Just from the Orion to the lynx.

Okay so running the negative to the van body from the tapping point essentially is just saving me an additional 24 feet of wire (12 feet by 2 Orions)?

I was hoping it would decrease total circuit length and I could use a lower gauge wire for the extended run to the back of the van.

The run is about 12 feet one way from tapping point to charge controllers and I plan on using 4 AWG for that run from tapping point to the Orions.

 

[Motormad]

That sounds great. How did you do it?

You are the first person I've heard of doing something like this. Makes a lot of sense though. Please share some more information or considering writing a 'guide' here on the forums for others to follow.

I have ustilised HomeAssistant to control the Orions, along with everything else in the van (see some info here). HA is needed to take the gps speed from the Teltonika modem to set the required charge level.

Looking at using Home Assisant for van control

As @Mosshops mentions, the MercedesMe connection is currently using the same functionality (and the internet) as the app, so still requires a subscription, but it does allow all the same functionality of the app including all the driving metrics that HA then stores. SmartyVan then go on to use...

sprinter-source.com

I am very happy to share full details, but it is not for the faint hearted and probably not a universal solution. However, I can see a more useful solution for a lot of users using NodeRed in the Cerbo in conjuction with on of the Cerbo's digital inputs. This would require a user switch for the driver to select the mode required, but the Cerbo could then switch the Orions between 2 preset values.

Alternatively, the charge current could be set automatically based on State of Charge, or indeed any other information that is available to the Cerbo. Happy to work through an example based on what people are interested in using??

 

[mkeys]

Probably more complex and 'smart homey' than I am looking for. But I like the functionality! Some of the modem/cerbo stuff adds more cost than I'd be looking for.

Thinking about what a solution I like would look like, maybe it is just a arduino with a little GPS module. And it just sends 5vdc signal to turn on one of two Victron charge controllers once a set speed is hit (and maybe maintained for XX seconds). Sounds like a fun little project that I may be talking myself into now.

 

[mikeme]

The XS has a perfectly fine engine shutdown control which does wonderful things.

I have only one, but want it to be nice to the engine.

I set the charging limit to 50 amps, and enable engine shutdown detection.

In engine shutdown detection: (user defined alternator type)
start voltage to 15.5V (which it will never see)
delayed start voltage to 14.03V
Delayed start voltage delay to 300 (to give the engine 5 minutes to warm up)
Shutdown voltage to 13.86V

My XS is wired near the house battery, after a good run of awg4 wire.

The manual explains about shutdown voltage, and the key is that the charger throttles back to try to maintain this voltage. (your setting may vary, should be informed by the actual voltage drop in your setup.


at no load, my XS sees 14.2 volts at the input. at my settings, the output at idle (with a hungry house LFP battery) is a bit over 43 amps, and reduces with higher chassis engine loads (headlights, electric heater, wipers, hvac fans....) Depending on your wiring, the shutdown voltage setting would vary.

With two XS chargers in parallel, you may want to adjust one to be more a little less demanding and perhaps set the delay different.

 

[mkeys]

Those settings seem alternator friendly, and you are only at 50amps anyways.

I think the thought with only charging at the higher amps when you are at highway speeds is that you are not stressing the alternator like you would be charging if you did that charging while idling at a traffic light, or doing light stop/go driving. Something a delay can't really account for.

 

[Happy29]

I manually set my pair to split the charge load based on how long I intend to drive and how much charge I need to recover. If I'm driving 4 hours and only need 100Ah I'll reduce the output current appropriately. No need to hammer the alternator when not absolutely required.

I run Home Assistant at home but not in the van. VictronConnect is pretty easy to tweak the rate as needed.

 

[mkeys]

Yeah easy enough if you don't mind fussing with it.

 

[Diver160651]

I have a room-temperature IQ and would like some input on my setup.

I have a unique configuration with only about 495Ah capacity, where 330Ah is located in an area like a starter battery, exposed to outside conditions. The third battery is indoors and isolated from the others. I don’t often need much power, and the two stock AGMs used to suffice, but it was time to replace them, so I image it be rare that the lithiums were drawn down much.

Though the new lithium batteries come with heating features, I had to choose the arrangement (only 1 inside) for space considerations to ensure I have some reserve capacity during Wyoming winters when temperatures drop below zero. I never had issues with the AGMs, but this setup is new to me with limited field testing.

I plan to add a second XS 12/12 50 amp charger in parallel with the XS 12/24 50 amp. My initial thought was to leave the second XS disabled in the VictronComm app settings, only using it if I significantly discharged the batteries. My drives to the next location are usually just a couple of hours, and I typically don’t encounter steep mountain passes.

It seems I could utilize strategies like a delayed start on the main DC charger. However, I’m wondering if it’s better to keep both chargers set to low amps or if it's acceptable to run one at 50 amps and activate the other only on rare occasions when I need a faster charge.

Here are my choices:

1. Replace my XS1400 12/24 50 amp with two XS 12/12 50 amps.
2. Just add the second XS 12/12.

For configuration:

• Run one DC/DC charger set to delay start at 50 amps, while the second is manually disconnected through the app. but maybe set to 30 amps
• Run one DC/DC charger with a delayed start at lower amps, like 30 amps, while keeping the second fully capable at 50 amps but manually disconnected.
• Run both chargers at lower amps and increase them when needed.

Any suggestions would be appreciated, as well as thoughts from @marklg

 

[jdubbayew]

You guys need a second dedicated charging alternator or upgrade your stock alternator. Pulling 100A off the stock alternator that is already undersized is asking a lot of the factory system. If you want to have both only run 1 charger at a time.

I install 2 XS chargers for my customers that use their vans for winter camping. The second is a backup in case the first fails, but this is only for emergency situations in cold temperatures.

 

[Happy29]

I have dual 12/12-50 XS chargers for a couple years now. Both are charging the same battery though. I like to determine how much I need to replace (Wh) given the usage before each drive and then split the load between them equally allowing the charge to occur over the entire drive vs. forcing the alternator to work harder for a shorter period of time. I only use full 100A in desparate times though I have essentially none of the stock power consumers in my base van. No heated seats/steering wheel, no rear AC. Regardless, the harder the alternator has to work the shorter its life. I have the 220A rated to supply 80A beyond the vans demands.

That's the beauty of the Victron system, being able to fully customize the charge current. I leave input set to 50A (max) and just change output A. Charger will only pull what it requires to satisfy output demands.

I still use the signal from the van to indicate the alternator is ready to enable charging. The auto detect didn't work for me as I have dedicated starter battery solar charging. This voltage would cause the XS to enable. I also have a physical switch that connects to both chargers to disable/enable them in a moment like during a cold start. I like to wait 10 mins or so before adding the load to the alternator/engine until warmup is mostly complete.

 

[Diver160651]

You guys need a second dedicated charging alternator or upgrade your stock alternator. Pulling 100A off the stock alternator that is already undersized is asking a lot of the factory system. If you want to have both only run 1 charger at a time.

I install 2 XS chargers for my customers that use their vans for winter camping. The second is a backup in case the first fails, but this is only for emergency situations in cold temperatures.

I wasn't planning on running them both at max. Just having the emergency capability to go to the 80amps