Should I just flush the brakes?

lister2

Member
Looked through the forums already and couldn't find an answer. The other day the I depressed the brake to the floor and they were mushy and it felt unsafe. The brake indicator did not turn off. The ABS ESP signal has been on since I purchased it used. Ran a scan and no codes related were thrown. The brake fluid looks a little dark but not low and I have never changed it since purchase. I'm considering flushing it, removing the reservoir, and checking the seal on the master cylinder. I don't drive it much. Am I on the right track?
 

Nautamaran

2004 140” HRC 2500 (Crewed)
If the reservoir is dark you should give it a flush. The two year flush interval goes by pretty quickly…

Suck out the old fluid first, fill the reservoir with new fluid and flush using your favourite method, starting with the passenger side rear brake. Avoid using the full travel of the brake pedal during the flush, since you can damage the master cylinder seals by venturing into the rarely-used region of the master cylinder’s piston travel. A power flush (pressured tank) is easier and recommended by Mercedes; bonus points if your scan tool can actuate the ABS solenoids and flush the whole block… a spirited drive on loose traction (gravel, snow, sand…) following the flush will also actuate these solenoids and get fresh fluid into the ABS block, but not as completely. IIRC a litre tin of brake fluid was around $20 last time I bought it?

All that said, it is “normal” for the pedal to sink somewhat, and difficult to get a north american style pedal feel. But with the brake booster exhausted (pump pedal a few times with engine off) you should arrive at a ROCK HARD pedal feel, then that pedal will sink an inch or two under your foot once you restart the engine, stopping some distance above the floor.
Note that sinking all the way to the floor isn’t normal, and is likely a bad master cylinder.

The recommended MB 331.0 brake fluid is available at your Mercedes dealer and has a slightly higher wet boil point than common DOT brake fluids.

The red “BRAKE” light indicates a low fluid level in the reservoir (or a wiring fault…) and an unsafe driving condition (as do all the red warning lamps). So absolutely check your fluid level, but you stated that the fluid is brown so I assume you have checked the reservoir level.

The amber ABS lamp indicates loss of some or all ABS function. Commonly this is due to a faulty wheel speed sensor, which can be caused by corrosion in the tone wheel… try tapping the sensor(s) into the hub to reset the sensor gap. A T1N-aware scan tool can pull fault codes directly from the ABS/ESP module and help direct your troubleshooting. A generic tool will only read SAE fault codes from the engine module, and these are “best match” substitutions of the more detailed Mercedes fault codes that a T1N/901 Sprinter scan mode will provide.

-dave
 
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Nautamaran

2004 140” HRC 2500 (Crewed)
I might have to double check the brake pedal travel.
Confirm the fluid level, then do the engine-off pedal pump check to confirm MC health. If the pedal sinks with the engine off you’ve got a problem with the master cylinder. If it holds under firm pressure then go ahead with a fluid flush and reassess. You may simply have air somewhere (especially if the fluid level was allowed to drop to empty…) and a thorough flush should solve this.

-dave
 

CJPJ

2008 3500 170 EXTD 3.0 V6 OM642.993 4.182
Last time I bled the sprinters brakes it took one and a half liters of DOT4+. I bled the entire system with gravity feed and didn’t touch the brake pedal.
 

Kajtek1

1922 Ford T. No OBD
I still have the fluid pressurizer, that I build for $2 for BMW cap with hole and hose connecting it to spare wheel,
 

Nautamaran

2004 140” HRC 2500 (Crewed)
Pedal pumped low with the engine off. It looks like it is probably the master cylinder. 💢🤬
There’s always a chance it’s just a big air bubble in the lines, but yeah…

You could do a flush/bleed as a last diagnostic before changing the M/C. Finding a shop capable of activating the ABS pump during a pressure bleed would remove all doubt.

-dave
 

lister2

Member
I thought there was brake fluid in the reservoir but there was none at all. I refilled it anyways. I think this means there must be a leak somewhere or bad MC but I have likely never checked the fluid level in a couple years. I'll look for a leak next. Good luck, I need it.
 
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vstech

Active member
Make sure your E brake handle is all the way down.

Be careful when replacing the master cylinder as the tube has to align with the booster rod, and it is a little finicky.
Also there is an end on the booster shaft, make sure it doesnt get left stuck in the old mc.
 

lister2

Member
I'm removing the old MC first to see if I need to replace the booster... I would rather not do that because the OEM part is not available.
 

lister2

Member
I tried to bench test the master cylinder. It seems OK, very little travel. I didn't see too much sign of a leak on the booster except some wear/missing paint.

Next I inspected the brake lines as well as I could. They are all badly rusted. I purchased the van in Chicago. The line at the right rear had signs of leakage and was wet with brake fluid. This is getting to be a total pain in the ass. I think most of the lines underneath need to be replaced and I don't know if I trust myself to undertake that job. I see some OEM brake lines available for purchase though.
 
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CJPJ

2008 3500 170 EXTD 3.0 V6 OM642.993 4.182
If FORUM memory serves. Replacing the OEM brake line was gonna be much involved. So they resorted to fabricating their own bending for a simple routing installation
 

lister2

Member
If FORUM memory serves. Replacing the OEM brake line was gonna be much involved. So they resorted to fabricating their own bending for a simple routing installation
OK. I don't see how it's more difficult to use OEM line but OK. Why?
 
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Midwestdrifter

Engineer In Residence
Pre bent OEM lines are not available. Best you will get is a straight steel section that needs bent. You can buy those locally. There is another recent thread on this subforum discussing brake lines. There is also a good writeup in that subforum on brake line replacement.
 

lister2

Member
trying to remove a brake line stripped bolt at the rear wheel with saw, locking pliers, and heat. no luck.

1000004855.jpg
 
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