2nd injector failure in 2 months, why is this happening?

[abiss]

Hi. 2004 118" Dodge T1N. I just had my 2nd injector failure in the past few months. Many of you might recall when my injector 3 failed a few months ago from this thread: https://sprinter-source.com/forums/index.php?threads/135639/page-3#post-1637484

A few questions:

• Although an OBD scan eventually reaffirmed a suspected faulty injector (info below), I wanted to double check with y'all to see if this does in fact sound like a bad injector (considering notes below)?
• Can you tell how it failed? Mechanically speaking.. Considering:
  • Unlike the first failure, this time has no thick, heavy black smoke belching from the exhaust pipe (Last time the injector allegedly stuck open and caused massive black clouds to belch out).
• Also, what could be causing multiple injectors to fail so soon, one after the other? Could this be an expensive side effect to another problem?

Notes about this failure:

• Engine has the same or similar, rough idle where the engine feels out of balance, rhythmically shaking. It also sounds like at least 1 misfiring cylinder.
• The engine clearly struggles to accelerate from an idling standstill. The sound is difficult to describe exactly, but there is a notable rattle during this acceleration. I can provide video /audio if this helps. Once the van gets moving, maybe around at least 15-20mph, the shaking and odd sounds mostly stop, but there is still an extreme loss of power / acceleration.
• On the highway, it either goes into LHM, or if not LHM, the reduced power makes it seem like LHM.
• I had to run two OBD scans. The first scan returned a lot of codes likely because I didn't clear them after replacing the first failed injector. So I erased and took van out for a 45min drive on local roads only. The fresh scan revealed a single relevant code:
  • Common Rail - 2141 - Component 'Y16 (Cylinder 1 injector)' is faulty. Unknown fault type: -1

Other possibly relevant information:

• I just replaced the fuel filter (OEM) about 3 weeks or 1400 miles prior to this second failure.
• I probably should make a separate post about this: but I am also having an oil level issue that I suspect is due to the cold. Despite having the correct dipstick level, I am getting constant Low Oil lights as the engine warms up, especially when I accelerate as the oil sloshes to the rear of the crank case. This warning eventually goes away once the engine warms up.
  • When this alarm first happened, I immediately added oil - which I later determined to be overfilled and pumped out the excess. However, even overfilled - I continued to get the Low Oil light until warm and then curiously received a "Hi" alert on the odometer during the same trip after the engine warmed.
• I used LiquiMoly 10w40 in my last oil change but topped off this time with Rotella 10w40 as it’s all I could find.
• Do I need a lighter weight for the winter possibly? Never experienced this particular issue.

 

[Bill B.]

Contaminated fuel

 

[Midwestdrifter]

The 2141 Code usually means a bad electrical connection between the ECM and the injector. Make sure the wiring is in good shape, and that the electrical connectors on all the injectors are fully seated, locked, clean, and free of water.

What color is your dipstick handle?

 

[hippy]

Bad quality fuel

 

[Nautamaran]

In my experience cold weather does not cause sufficient contraction of the oil in the sump to trigger a low level alarm - and I’ve seen -30°F - so I would conclude that you are perhaps a tad low on sump level?

The oil sensor in the sump provides the sump level, oil temperature, and oil quality value to the ECM, and these can be read using a T1N-aware scan tool.
At operating temperature (oil temp around 200°F/95°C) the sump level should be between 45 and 70 millimeters, and I usually target something around 60mm (2.5”) Note that this is with engine off and having drained down (after fueling); when running my sump level value is typically 35-40mm when viewed on a scan tool.

This is my dip stick, measured hot, level surface, after draining down for several minutes (fuel stations are a great spot to check the oil level)


Fluid temperatures and oil sump level readout on my auxiliary display (at idle).


-dave

 

[Bill B.]

In my experience cold weather does not cause sufficient contraction of the oil in the sump to trigger a low level alarm - and I’ve seen -30°F - so I would conclude that you are perhaps a tad low on sump level?

The oil sensor in the sump provides the sump level, oil temperature, and oil quality value to the ECM, and these can be read using a T1N-aware scan tool.
At operating temperature (oil temp around 200°F/95°C) the sump level should be between 45 and 70 millimeters, and I usually target something around 60mm (2.5”) Note that this is with engine off and having drained down (after fueling); when running my sump level value is typically 35-40mm when viewed on a scan tool.

This is my dip stick, measured hot, level surface, after draining down for several minutes (fuel stations are a great spot to check the oil level)
View attachment 348182

Fluid temperatures and oil sump level readout on my auxiliary display (at idle).
View attachment 348200

-dave

Interesting. I’ve always strived for the upper mark. Perhaps I’m overfilling.

 

[abiss]

The 2141 Code usually means a bad electrical connection between the ECM and the injector. Make sure the wiring is in good shape, and that the electrical connectors on all the injectors are fully seated, locked, clean, and free of water.

What color is your dipstick handle?

In my experience cold weather does not cause sufficient contraction of the oil in the sump to trigger a low level alarm - and I’ve seen -30°F - so I would conclude that you are perhaps a tad low on sump level?

The oil sensor in the sump provides the sump level, oil temperature, and oil quality value to the ECM, and these can be read using a T1N-aware scan tool.
At operating temperature (oil temp around 200°F/95°C) the sump level should be between 45 and 70 millimeters, and I usually target something around 60mm (2.5”) Note that this is with engine off and having drained down (after fueling); when running my sump level value is typically 35-40mm when viewed on a scan tool.

This is my dip stick, measured hot, level surface, after draining down for several minutes (fuel stations are a great spot to check the oil level)
View attachment 348182

Fluid temperatures and oil sump level readout on my auxiliary display (at idle).
View attachment 348200

-dave

OIL
The dipstick is red, I’ve been reading it with the engine warm. The last time I checked was after pumping out most of the excess, it was still overfilled - part of the way up the red Max plastic section, but I had taken out enough to at least quell the “Hi” alarm. The pump I have isn’t great and takes a lot of work to pump any meaningful amount.

I’m a bit surprised this isn’t a typical experience, as the light started as soon as the weather got cold, it only goes off under acceleration, until the engine warms up. I will take another look at the level. But any suggestions on how to diagnose what is going on?

Do you still sell the Nautabox? (forgive me if that isn’t the name, I remember seeing this a while back, very cool).

INJECTOR (Midwest)
Ok, interesting regarding 2141. So I suppose the only way to know would be to check continuity between the ECM and Injector? I checked the connector after scanning and it’s definitely seated correctly.

May I ask a stupid question for my own understanding: is a failed injector usually or always accompanied by heavy smoke? Or is this only in the case of a stuck-open injector? Is a clog possible - aka no fuel getting in cylinder so no heavy smoke?

 

[bill in tomahawk]

Abiss, Here's a thought. Pull ALL your injectors and send them to Oregon Fuel Injection.

Home

Oregon Fuel Injection specializes in the repair of diesel fuel injection systems, replacement diesel parts, performance parts, drive-in service, repairs and diagnostics.

oregonfuelinjection.com

2004-2006 2.7 L Sprinter Van

oregonfuelinjection.com

Sprinter Diesel Diagnostics

2007 – 2009 Sprinter OM642 Diagnostics | 2001 – 2006 Sprinter Van Diagnostics 2007– 2009 Sprinter OM642 Diagnostics PDF: 2007 – 2009 Sprinter Van OM642 Diagnostics In order to do proper diagnostics, you will need a scan tool and some special tools available from Mopar Special Tools...

oregonfuelinjection.com

Read down for 2001-2006.

Have them tested and then reinstall all tested and approved injectors.
Spend money...be happy.

If the oil is clean run it.

Clear codes and then rescan.

All OK?

Drive on.

Bill

 

[ECU]

a bit surprised this isn’t a typical experience, as the light started as soon as the weather got cold, it only goes off under acceleration, until the engine warms up.

No dash light for oil. One guy here thought the low coolant light was oil.
Only warning is HI in the readout display.

 

[abiss]

No dash light for oil. One guy here thought the low coolant light was oil.
Only warning is HI in the readout display.

How incredibly embarrassing, yep, I definitely thought that was the low oil light. Nope, I have low coolant!! Thank you for pointing this out.

 

[Midwestdrifter]

INJECTOR (Midwest)
Ok, interesting regarding 2141. So I suppose the only way to know would be to check continuity between the ECM and Injector? I checked the connector after scanning and it’s definitely seated correctly.

May I ask a stupid question for my own understanding: is a failed injector usually or always accompanied by heavy smoke? Or is this only in the case of a stuck-open injector? Is a clog possible - aka no fuel getting in cylinder so no heavy smoke?

Checking for resistance would be better, but yes that is a place to start. Also check for shorts to ground with the ECM unplugged. Make sure the wiring harness isn't internally/externally chafed by the fuel filter, and where it runs over/under the intake manifold.

Injector failure isn't always accompanied by smoke.

Injectors can leak past the nozzle (overfueling).
They can fail to close on time (overfueling).
They can fail to open on time, or at all (underfueling).
They can leak internally to the return fuel excessively (low or unstable fuel pressure, hot start issues).

They can also just have worn nozzles and a poor spray pattern (poor fuel economy).

Injector failures are driven by time (engine running time), and fuel contamination (particulate, water etc).

A non-spec or failed fuel filter for example.

Poor quality reman injectors (or ebay special "reman" injectors that have just been repainted) also tend to fail in short order.

The passages inside these injectors are on the order of 5-10 microns (human hair is about 50 microns wide). So cleanliness when handling fuel injection components is important. The high pressure fuel pump is similar. Fuel contamination, especially with water, can disrupt the lubricating properties of the fuel, causing the high pressure fuel pump to shed tiny metal particles into the fuel, which can cause erosion of the nozzle, and the control valve seat in the injectors. This then can cause overfueling.

The injectors themselves are controlled by a ball/seat valve, This is held closed by a permanent magnet. To open the injector, the ECM sends a high current pulse to the coil on top of the injector, which rapidly cancels the magnetic field of the hold-closed magnet, causing the ball to lift off the seat, and the injector to open (this happens in milliseconds). The time it takes the injector to open is critical to proper fuel quantity injection, and smooth operation. So the resistance of the wiring between the ECM and the injectors is important. On the OM612 the ECM uses the inductive back EMF from one injectors coil firing pulse to partially recharge the capacitors for the next injector (especially important at high RPM were injector pulses are close together). Having one injector with a poor connection can result in inconsistent pulse profile for other injectors.

The OM647 uses a more robust firing circuit, and each injector firing pulse is independent of the others. This is why the 647 can tolerate having one injector unplugged at a time when operating without stalling.

 

[ECU]

How incredibly embarrassing, yep, I definitely thought that was the low oil light. Nope, I have low coolant!! Thank you for pointing this out.

Lousiest story I read was a guy that didn't know how the shifter side to side stuff works. He said that the dash said it was in 2nd and no matter how fast he went, it wouldn't shift up. If I remember the story, after driving at 70 in 2nd for a while, the van broke down.

 

[Sprinter Snail]

My bet is on bad harness ECM to engine connection. or damage. False low oil level signal (if you 100% sure oil level was good on dipstick), could be also false report to ECM about injector performance.

 

[Bill B.]

Lousiest story I read was a guy that didn't know how the shifter side to side stuff works. He said that the dash said it was in 2nd and no matter how fast he went, it wouldn't shift up. If I remember the story, after driving at 70 in 2nd for a while, the van broke down.

You can drag a horse… but you can’t make them read the owner’s manual.