Using 80/20

Graphite Dave

Dave Orton
Working on my Transit conversion drawings. I have collected the connectors that will be used and put them on two drawings which are attached. 80/20 does not make equivalent connectors of the same thickness or hole spacing for some of my applications so I make my own out of flats and angles. Notes on the connectors:

A. This is my standard angle connector. 3/16" thick, 1 1/4" long and offset holes. Offset holes allow use of two carriage bolts at the joint with space for the nuts.

B. This is an offset angle connector that allows a 1/4" panel to be used.

C. This connector with one leg of angle short is used in my floor to cleat the 3/8" rubber floor.

D. Double height angle connector used to anchor cabinets to the 80/20 floor.

E. Standard angle connector with one hole offset to allow use of carriage bolts.

F. 3 hole flatbar connector.

G. Mounting angle for 1/4" removable panel.

H. Standard 80/20 end connector.

I. Less expensive and better way to get a tapped hole in a 80/20 slot. 5/16" set screw holes economy nut in place. Economy nuts are cheap compared to other choices.

J. Wood fixed panel connector.

K. 1/8" thick 3 hole connector plate.

L. 1/8" thick 4 hole connector plate.
 

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zeidwh

New member
I have submitted a non-CAD (Excel really) drawing to my local 8020 dealer for the bunks that I am rebuilding out of 8020 1010 material and would love any design feedback. I have a ton of L-Track on the walls of my van, supported by ⅛" stainless plate riveted to the ribs of the van behind the walls.

My goal is:
1. Fully moveable (height) and removable bed

2. Chaise lounge function

3. 4" gap when bunk folded up to keep my bed made (I have a 4" mattress and the L-Track connection to the wall will give me plenty of space)

4. Ability to adjust fold-down leg height (adjustable feet and different size legs if needed)

5. Option to have a higher bunk or one on other side of van when I'm not solo.

I have most of this stuff built already in a wood version that I made. I also need to rebuild my galley and some cabinets (will be using George Ra's as inspiration) so I think its time to get used to 8020.

In reading a lot of George Ra's and Graphite Dave's posts, I have seen 1515 material twisting, use all of the same (generally 1515), and bunks/beds can be made of their simpler material with plastic joining parts.

Can you folks give me your advice? Many thanks.
 

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zeidwh

New member
Some corrections/additions:

In the drawing, one of the legs is missing in the back/end of the bed.

Also, the legs would fold up using pivot brackets.

I submitted the drawing to 8020 dealer so they could fabricate it for me, break it down and I could pick it up from them. As I mentioned in a previous post, you guys are master builders and I am decidedly not.

Thanks again for any input/ideas. And GeorgeRa, if you ever decide to open a fabrication business, I would be a very happy customer! ;-)
 
Away from my go-to chop saw, I had to improvise an 80/20 cut with a band saw. Revelation. Quiet, tiny kerf and much less waste. Is it less macho or more to say it cut like butter?
 

Zyzzyx

Member
I've some experience using 10 series 80/20 for some custom dog crates and carts; works great, love the stuff. Very solid for what gets built.

Now I'm designing the interior for our van, and will probably mostly be using 15 series, for strength and looks.


I'm a bit lost though in regards to "allowable deflection". I have the 80/20 Tech Tools software; fun stuff, outputs some great numbers. And I can easily see the change in deflection when choosing different profiles.

But how much deflection should be allowed? Say for something like a bifold fold-out bed, I'm looking at a 36" span. Figuring a near 'worst case' of 250# in the middle, a 1515-Lite profile gives me 1/8" deflection (.1296"). Is that too much? Should I go with the standard 1515 and only a .09" deflection?

What about on a longer span? My rear fold-down bed would have supports along the wall, but the outer part just at the corners. This gives me a 72" span. Standard 1515 has a 3/4" deflection, that seems a bit much. So I'm looking at the double-wide profile. Would look great to have a closed outside, so the 3075 profile looks good; it has 3/16" deflection, that would be noticeable, but is it too much over 72" length?

And these are just static loads, anything that happens to bounce or 'jump' onto a bed could be significantly more.


I don't mind over-building a bit, but would also like to go with the lighter profiles if possible; less weight in the van and less cash out of pocket.
 

Doug M.

New member
Zyzzyx,
Look at my posts # 20 through #28 on High Sierra Sprinter and you will have one example of a six foot run of 8020 with 15 series. Only one cross brace on the fold down piece of bed/bench and the bed is supported on each end with a leg of 8020. After two years of use still solid as could be and feels like it could easily support 300 to 400# with very little deflection of 8020. We love the 8020 as bed structure and would build again with 15 series 8020. Hope this helps.
 

hein

Van Guru
Updated connector drawings:
Dave,

Have you considered laser cutting those parts and having the angles formed on a press brake? I know all to well that it takes close to an eternity to cut lots of parts to length, drill holes, deburr, round off all the corners, etc. And then the parts never come out exactly the same.

Is anyone else interested in some standard plates and brackets like Dave is using? I know a great laser cutter with a CNC press brake. Another of our vendors can clear anodize to match the 80/20. Your flats can be released as is and I can model the formed parts for you if that helps. -And you aren't limited to 90 degrees if that helps.

Below is a prototype bracket with a VHB peel & stick pad we are planning to release soon: It's designed to work with 15 series 80/20 sticks or bolt directly to a solar panel frame. The joggle offset can be DIY adjusted to make the angle plus/minus 10 degrees from 90.

 
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GeorgeRa

2013 Sprinter DIY 144WB, Portland OR
Dave,

Have you considered laser cutting those parts and having the angles formed on a press brake? I know all to well that it takes close to an eternity to cut lots of parts to length, drill holes, deburr, round off all the corners, etc. And then the parts never come out exactly the same.

Is anyone else interested in some standard plates and brackets like Dave is using? I know a great laser cutter with a CNC press brake. Another of our vendors can clear anodize to match the 80/20. Your flats can be released as is and I can model the formed parts for you if that helps. -And you aren't limited to 90 degrees if that helps.

Below is a prototype bracket with a VHB peel & stick pad we are planning to release soon: It's designed to work with 15 series 80/20 sticks or bolt directly to a solar panel frame. The joggle offset can be DIY adjusted to make the angle plus/minus 10 degrees from 90.

This bracket/pad looks really nice. If I would not use roof rails I would choose yours to mount solar panels.

George.
 

Neil2

Neil2
That just may work for the Mega Roof. After months of research last year I decided to nix the 8020 frame I had envisioned and just mount 'feet' betwixt the roof and the panels. Sweet! Now I'll begin working on the stealth edging needed for the panel sides.
 

Graphite Dave

Dave Orton
Dave,

Have you considered laser cutting those parts and having the angles formed on a press brake? I know all to well that it takes close to an eternity to cut lots of parts to length, drill holes, deburr, round off all the corners, etc. And then the parts never come out exactly the same.

Is anyone else interested in some standard plates and brackets like Dave is using? I know a great laser cutter with a CNC press brake. Another of our vendors can clear anodize to match the 80/20. Your flats can be released as is and I can model the formed parts for you if that helps. -And you aren't limited to 90 degrees if that helps.

Below is a prototype bracket with a VHB peel & stick pad we are planning to release soon: It's designed to work with 15 series 80/20 sticks or bolt directly to a solar panel frame. The joggle offset can be DIY adjusted to make the angle plus/minus 10 degrees from 90.

I also have a good laser supplier in Fresno that I have worked with extensively building conveyor parts. I send them .dxf drawings. You might be interested in my "laser rules" which are attached. Each supplier has different requirements but these worked with my supplier.

I find it works well for me to make the connectors as I build. Less time than it takes to figure out what I need and ordering ahead of time. Besides almost all of the connectors are not available from 80/20 because I want different thicknesses and hole locations. 80/20 is very forgiving as far as quality. You do not need to be super accurate making connectors. In my case 95% of the connectors are hidden from view so looks is not important as long as the connection functions. I think they look fine anyhow.

The conveyor parts were almost all lasered from 12 gage 304 SS 2B finish. I agree that they look very professional but again are more expensive. If I was in the business of building multiple conversions, I would buy lasered parts in quantity instead of making them from angles and flats.

Hopefully the Transit is my last conversion. Now that I know how much work is involved, the project is more daunting than the Sprinter. Did not know how many hours it would take which was a blessing.
 

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I find it works well for me to make the connectors as I build. Less time than it takes to figure out what I need and ordering ahead of time. Besides almost all of the connectors are not available from 80/20 because I want different thicknesses and hole locations. 80/20 is very forgiving as far as quality. You do not need to be super accurate making connectors. In my case 95% of the connectors are hidden from view so looks is not important as long as the connection functions. I think they look fine anyhow.
I know you're chopping your own pats. But if you need something that's more precise. These guys: http://reliablehardwareandsteel.com are local. I've see some of their work. It looks pretty good but it was just lighted sign housing. So no precision really needed. Don't know how they'll do for more precise stuff but they claim .008" tolerances.
 

Graphite Dave

Dave Orton
I know you're chopping your own pats. But if you need something that's more precise. These guys: http://reliablehardwareandsteel.com are local. I've see some of their work. It looks pretty good but it was just lighted sign housing. So no precision really needed. Don't know how they'll do for more precise stuff but they claim .008" tolerances.
No need for precise connectors.

I have bought fasteners from Reliable but normally buy fasteners from Redding Fasteners. Reliable does have waterjet cutting that I may use some day. I did have JNC Metals at 400 Yolanda make my solar panel angle supports out of 12 ga. SS. He did a nice job. Will have him do any more parts I need. Probably less expensive than Reliable.
 

Graphite Dave

Dave Orton
Just used the # 3380 "standard end connector" for the first time. Now I understand George Ra's comments about needing precision cut parts. Need to have a jig of some sort to accurately locate the screw hole so access hole is located correctly. Will only use these where absolutely necessary and I do not have access to back of 80/20 pieces. Back to my crude flat plate with 3 holes that do not need to be accurate and make a much stronger joint. Much easier for DIY.
 

Graphite Dave

Dave Orton
and 9/32" drill bit. Make sure to lubricate the bushing.
Definitely more time consuming than my flat plates and angles. Maybe I should have read the catalog for jigs and using 9/32" drill bit instead of the 1/4" I used! Will only use these connectors where necessary. I can make a flat or angle bracket in 10 minutes and have them installed before I could install a jig and drill a hole accurately.
On a straight I just cut a piece of wood to give my spacing between 80/20 uprights. Slide the 80/20 to the end of the piece of wood and tighten the bolts.

Thanks to both of you for your comments.
 

GeorgeRa

2013 Sprinter DIY 144WB, Portland OR
Definitely more time consuming than my flat plates and angles. Maybe I should have read the catalog for jigs and using 9/32" drill bit instead of the 1/4" I used! Will only use these connectors where necessary. I can make a flat or angle bracket in 10 minutes and have them installed before I could install a jig and drill a hole accurately.
On a straight I just cut a piece of wood to give my spacing between 80/20 uprights. Slide the 80/20 to the end of the piece of wood and tighten the bolts.

Thanks to both of you for your comments.
One of the beauties of 8020 is fasteners choice flexibility. The end fasteners need access holes in right locations, anchors require machining, plates are simple. The engineered application is the driver of choosing right fastening options. As you have proven successfully you can built a great conversion with simple fasteners.

George.
 

Graphite Dave

Dave Orton
I think it is just a personal phobia about machined parts. Spent many years designing conveyors and one of the main requirements was eliminating any machined parts due to their high cost.

I did not own the fabricating shop. It was 4 hours from my location. I would do the packaging line conveyor design, sell my conveyors to the customer, put a package of blueprints together and send them to the shop via the post office, buy all the purchased parts and drop ship them to the shop, shop would do the metal work and assembly and then I would drive to the shop to pick up the conveyors for delivery. One year I did $500,000 in sales with just me and one CAD operator.

The shop was located in a low rent/cost area and was basically a farm shop with very limited tools and limited machining ability. To successfully use this inexpensive shop you had to design to their capabilities. That meant finding existing low cost high volume parts to use in the conveyors to eliminate any machining. Even found shafting that could be bought in 6' lengths with the keyway. Shop just cut off the length required.

So I think it is just a personal problem that is derived from too many years trying to avoid the high cost. But why use expensive parts or a time consuming process when you can quickly do the same thing with a simple low skill part? Some of us with limited fabrication skills are forced to that solution.
 
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