Using 80/20

Roamers

2020 4X4 170 Crew
For those that have spent lots of time with 8020, is it feasible to make a mitered corner held together with a bolt that screws into a taped center hole on one piece and through a bored hole on other? Guessing probably using an allen head bolt. Thanks!
 

99sport

Well-known member
For those that have spent lots of time with 8020, is it feasible to make a mitered corner held together with a bolt that screws into a taped center hole on one piece and through a bored hole on other? Guessing probably using an allen head bolt. Thanks!

Do you mean like this?
PXL_20210228_192359307.jpg
PXL_20210228_192506981.jpg


It is the cheapest connection method (75 cents) also one of the strongest and stiffest. I've use hundreds of these. I only use something else if I want the connection adjustable (without a drill) or removable.
 

RVBarry

Well-known member
@99sport, thank you!

(what joint method are you using? - 8020 has several ways to make a joint and their strength and stiffness vary dramatically)
Probably a variety, based on accessibility. I may double-up on anchor connectors in critical locations.
I understand end-connectors are stronger, but would prefer not to have holes showing... Need to do a CAD design.

Are there any supports front to back?
I will add them where I can... Freshwater tank & chest fridge will be in the way in the two dinettes, but there will at least be room for some supports inside and on top of the wheel well cabinets, and on top of the dinette bench we'd use most often (the bench will the fridge would be impossible to have any).

Thanks!
 

99sport

Well-known member
@99sport, thank you!


Probably a variety, based on accessibility. I may double-up on anchor connectors in critical locations.
I understand end-connectors are stronger, but would prefer not to have holes showing... Need to do a CAD design.


I will add them where I can... Freshwater tank & chest fridge will be in the way in the two dinettes, but there will at least be room for some supports inside and on top of the wheel well cabinets, and on top of the dinette bench we'd use most often (the bench will the fridge would be impossible to have any).

Thanks!
Anchor connectors are stronger / stiffer IF you use the double sided ones. https://8020.net/3090.html Otherwise the anchor connector is only strong / stiff in one direction, so you need to be careful how you load it if those are concerns. The end connectors are good all around connectors and much cheaper and tapping is easier than a milling operation. But each has its place.

If you can post a sketch with dimensions, even hand drawn, we can provide some comments. I do think CAD is almost a requirement for 8020. The extrusions are expensive, and the drilling, tapping, machining takes a significant amount of time (or cost if you have the supplier do it), so it is worth it to do the CAD model to make sure you don't get any (costly) surprises when you go to assemble. Doing CAD feels like work to me (because that is part of my job), so I would much rather just sketch on an envelope and start cutting, but doing the CAD identified several areas that simply weren't going to work. My parts all went together the first time thanks to CAD. I still did make changes after I built it, but not because of errors, but rather for design "improvements"

Regarding buckling on a dinette, I just cant see how you will have any issues. As an example, the structure in the following picture is all 10 series. I can quite literally do pull ups from the bar above the shower circled in red (35" span) and support all my weight at the center of the span in the cabinet in front of the water heater (29" span). Thanks to the extremely rigid end connections, the beam deflection is trivial and the very slender columns do not buckle.

1614542436894.png
 

Roamers

2020 4X4 170 Crew
I used miter joints on my toilet lid, to join I used 8020 internal fastener. Your proposed method will work, but bolt will be exposed unless the bolt side piece is counterbored for bolts head.
Thanks, I actually meant to say counter-bored

Do you mean like this?
Those are not miter joints are they? But I like that fastener for other 90 corners.
 
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RVBarry

Well-known member
If you can post a sketch with dimensions, even hand drawn, we can provide some comments.
I will, soon... I'm still trying to work out a few critical dimensions so that 2 folded Radmini-4 eBikes will fit in the 'garage'.

Regarding buckling on a dinette, I just cant see how you will have any issues. As an example, the structure in the following picture is all 10 series. I can quite literally do pull ups from the bar above the shower circled in red (35" span) and support all my weight at the center of the span in the cabinet in front of the water heater (29" span). Thanks to the extremely rigid end connections, the beam deflection is trivial and the very slender columns do not buckle.
Excellent!
 

RVBarry

Well-known member
Okay, here's an overhead view of just the 80/20.
The dashed lines across the rear are the bed support beams spanning the space between the two wheel well cabinets.

RVBarry 170 8020 overhead-1600px.png

Let me know if you can't read my writing; I know it's terrible.
Thanks!
 

Attachments

99sport

Well-known member
Okay, here's an overhead view of just the 80/20.
The dashed lines across the rear are the bed support beams spanning the space between the two wheel well cabinets.

View attachment 172754

Let me know if you can't read my writing; I know it's terrible.
Thanks!
An orthogonal view would be super helpful. Also weights of the various components (fridge, stove, etc).

From this view my comments are: How do you plan to span the 6 foot width of the bed? That is the only span that is actually structurally demanding. If you are planning on an unsupported (without columns in the middle) span over the 6 foot width of the bed with 1010 series that is likely to be problematic. It probably could be done if you fasten plywood on top at 6" spacing and also have 8020 cross braces perpendicular to the width of the bed / van, also with 6" spaced fasteners to the 8020, but I think that would really be stretching it. A better solution would be to use something with a higher area moment of inertia (bending calc with 1020 might show that to work, or use the super cheap ikea bed rail). Also, if the ends of the bed are permanently / rigidly attached to an 8020 structure bolted to the walls it will make a huge difference (you can get away with smaller section thickness), but most people want the bed platform to be removable, so you don't get the benefit of the fixed / rigid end constraint at the wall. Basically, do your homework / calcs on the bed span as there is a potential to undersize the beams there. If in doubt, make the section height larger for that bed span.

How big of a water tank do you plan? Water is really heavy, so if you have a large tank, you'll need to pay attention to that area to make sure it is strong so you don't get any surprises in a panic stop (or worse an accident). For the water tank, you'll also need to consider how you fasten that structure to the van - again, there are likely to be high loads involved. (For comparison, I have 300lbs of water to manage in my build, so while most of my structure is extremely slender, there is a massive amount of aluminum in the load path restraining the water tank.)

Other than the bed and the water tank, the rest should be very straight forward. If it looks acceptable once you build it (and sit on it) it probably is.
 

RVBarry

Well-known member
An orthogonal view would be super helpful. Also weights of the various components (fridge, stove, etc).
Hi, unfortunately that's way beyond my drawing skills, but I will do a CAD model eventually.
Fridge will be a 95 or 101qt chest, ~66lbs empty. I know the ARB can be strapped from the handles, not sure about the Dometic, but I do intend to attach it to the floor or wall.
Stove will be portable, only a few pounds. Plus there will be some pots/pans stored in the galley cabinet; will look for a cargo net for those.
PortaPotti will be about 75lbs when full. It'll be on a 300lb drawer slide under the sink, with safety tethers.

Multiple lithium batteries (400Ah+) and a Victron Multiplus 3000 will be in the passenger-side wheel well cabinet. Will strap to plywood mounted on wall, plus straps to D-rings.

How do you plan to span the 6 foot width of the bed? That is the only span that is actually structurally demanding. If you are planning on an unsupported (without columns in the middle) span over the 6 foot width of the bed with 1010 series that is likely to be problematic.
I'll probably use either Ikea Skorva rails into T-Nuts, or 1030 8020.
It'll be about 4' between the cabinets.

Also, if the ends of the bed are permanently / rigidly attached to an 8020 structure bolted to the walls it will make a huge difference
The cabinets will be attached to the walls and floor.

Basically, do your homework / calcs on the bed span as there is a potential to undersize the beams there. If in doubt, make the section height larger for that bed span.
Agreed

How big of a water tank do you plan? Water is really heavy, so if you have a large tank
30-35 gallon, freshwater. I will strap it to the van as well, with plywood on the longer sides.

Today, I realized I can't use a wheel well tank and still fit the bikes in the garage, so the tank will have to go in the dinette bench or between the rear wheel and the dinette bench.
The gray tank will be outside, further forward, maybe 20gal.

BTW, the bikes I'm looking at are about 70lbs each; I'm planning a vertical wall under the front of the bed, framed with 8020, between the garage and house. And some safety tethers as well.

Thanks!
 
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RVBarry

Well-known member
BTW, I've been thinking that a safer way to handle water might be for the tank to be sheared in a collision, releasing the water.
I know an impact with water at 60mph is still very dangerous, but it's better than a more rigid tank or cabinet flying.

Thoughts?
 

99sport

Well-known member
BTW, I've been thinking that a safer way to handle water might be for the tank to be sheared in a collision, releasing the water.
I know an impact with water at 60mph is still very dangerous, but it's better than a more rigid tank or cabinet flying.

Thoughts?
Agree implementation would be challenging. You'd have to score the tank all the way around in a couple of planes to create a weakspot that would fail in a crash. Then you'd have to worry about low cycle fatigue causing a leak at one of those spots from bouncing down the road for thousands of miles. And you'd need at least 2 tanks - one to test and prove the failure mechanism - but probably it would take multiple trys / tanks to get it dialed in and working
 

asimba2

ourkaravan.com
I was looking over your build guide for overheads and was wondering why use a half profile on the inside of the headliner instead of bolting the PVC shims and fiberglass angles directly to the wall with rivnuts? Sorry if I’m missing something.
I was concerned about the cabinet bottoms not ending up level. The wall has about an 8.5 degree slope where the plus nuts would be mounted, and of course the bolt will have to enter at an 8.5 degree angle as well.
The method I used works because the T-nut inside the slot of the 80/20 (behind the headliner) has the ability to absorb that angle. That's not to say your method won't work, but that was my thought.

In fact I was planning to mount mine the way you described, but ended up copying @GeorgeRa because I believe he had similar concerns.
 

goinoregon

New member
hi rvbarry. i am a 8020 newbie. i see your pics of the anchor connector, but cant seem to figure out how you tighten it? it appears you need to tap the end to accept bolt, but after that i can not visualize.
will be doing a minimal pop up camper build out soon , with 8020, but am starting with a basement sink cabinet to see how things come together.
thx
go
 

jmole

Active member
I was concerned about the cabinet bottoms not ending up level. The wall has about an 8.5 degree slope where the plus nuts would be mounted, and of course the bolt will have to enter at an 8.5 degree angle as well.
The method I used works because the T-nut inside the slot of the 80/20 (behind the headliner) has the ability to absorb that angle. That's not to say your method won't work, but that was my thought.

In fact I was planning to mount mine the way you described, but ended up copying @GeorgeRa because I believe he had similar concerns.
I didn’t consider the bolt angle, that’s a good point. I’ll think on it for a bit and see if anything clicks, thanks.
 

RVBarry

Well-known member
hi rvbarry. i am a 8020 newbie. i see your pics of the anchor connector, but cant seem to figure out how you tighten it? it appears you need to tap the end to accept bolt, but after that i can not visualize.
will be doing a minimal pop up camper build out soon , with 8020, but am starting with a basement sink cabinet to see how things come together.
thx
go
Hi, I'm not sure it's my picture you're referring to, but the Standard End Fasteners need a hole drilled through one piece to access the screw, and the other piece needs the end tapped.

There are videos on that as well as the anchor connectors, at

You can also order a free sample kit on that page which includes a couple 15-series extrusions and connectors.
 

goinoregon

New member
Hi, I'm not sure it's my picture you're referring to, but the Standard End Fasteners need a hole drilled through one piece to access the screw, and the other piece needs the end tapped.

There are videos on that as well as the anchor connectors, at

You can also order a free sample kit on that page which includes a couple 15-series extrusions and connectors.
thx RV. i subsequently went to catalog, and figured the anchor system out. i am going to be building some simple shelf systems and was leaning towards the 'L' type bracket to connect extrusions. will look into these anchor fasteners. do u just use a handheld tapper to tap the ends of the extrusion?
 

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