Using 80/20

RVBarry

Well-known member
Dave,

Have you considered laser cutting those parts and having the angles formed on a press brake? I know all to well that it takes close to an eternity to cut lots of parts to length, drill holes, deburr, round off all the corners, etc. And then the parts never come out exactly the same.

Is anyone else interested in some standard plates and brackets like Dave is using? I know a great laser cutter with a CNC press brake. Another of our vendors can clear anodize to match the 80/20. Your flats can be released as is and I can model the formed parts for you if that helps. -And you aren't limited to 90 degrees if that helps.

Below is a prototype bracket with a VHB peel & stick pad we are planning to release soon: It's designed to work with 15 series 80/20 sticks or bolt directly to a solar panel frame. The joggle offset can be DIY adjusted to make the angle plus/minus 10 degrees from 90.

Hi Hein, do you offer similar for 10-series 8020?
Would like to see pics, the pic in the old post has disappeared.
Thanks
 

Airtime

Active member
Has anyone found soft close hinges for full or part overlay cabinet doors that can be adapted to use an 80/20 frame? I searched this thread and others and have come up dry so far.
 

OrioN

2008 2500 170" EXT
Has anyone found soft close hinges for full or part overlay cabinet doors that can be adapted to use an 80/20 frame? I searched this thread and others and have come up dry so far.
Any 'euro' style hinge can be used and mounted to an L-angle bracket that is mounted to the t-slot frames.
 

goldihop

New member
Does anyone have pictures of how they attached their 8020 cabinets to L track in an Adventure Wagon or similar kit?
 

asimba2

2016 4cyl High Roof 144

asimba2

2016 4cyl High Roof 144
Perfect, and nice job on the detailed guide with pics! Very helpful.
Thank you. I should point out that BluMotion (soft close) is now integrated into the hinge mechanism. No longer is the soft close an optional part attached to the outside of the hinge body and more importantly it's much less bulky now than the one in my picture above.

-Ken
 

Airtime

Active member
Thank you. I should point out that BluMotion (soft close) is now integrated into the hinge mechanism. No longer is the soft close an optional part attached to the outside of the hinge body and more importantly it's much less bulky now than the one in my picture above.

-Ken
Thanks again for the info, I also just found out that Blum also has a solution for thin doors and door fronts, as thin as 8mm / 5/16". This is good news, the standard European hinges had all seemed to require minimum 5/8" panels. I have been planning 1/2" HDPE. I may even go thinner for less weight (HDPE is dense), and I think it would look good with 10 series 8020 which I am using.
https://www.blum.com/us/en/products/innovations/thin-doors/overview/

I'll work out the attachment details for series 10 and post back here.
 

GeorgeRa

2013 Sprinter DIY 144WB, Portland OR
Thanks again for the info, I also just found out that Blum also has a solution for thin doors and door fronts, as thin as 8mm / 5/16". This is good news, the standard European hinges had all seemed to require minimum 5/8" panels. I have been planning 1/2" HDPE. I may even go thinner for less weight (HDPE is dense), and I think it would look good with 10 series 8020 which I am using.
https://www.blum.com/us/en/products/innovations/thin-doors/overview/

I'll work out the attachment details for series 10 and post back here.
I don’t think I would use thin panel Blum style attachment with HDPE, this is not truly a structural material, it will very likely flow under continuous pressure. Perhaps testing would prove or disprove my point. I found elongated 3/8" diameter holes in my 3/4" HDPE countertop.
 

Airtime

Active member
I don’t think I would use thin panel Blum style attachment with HDPE, this is not truly a structural material, it will very likely flow under continuous pressure. Perhaps testing would prove or disprove my point. I found elongated 3/8" diameter holes in my 3/4" HDPE countertop.
I'm using Starboard ST which is stiffer than Starboard or standard HDPE. King says it is "designed for excellent screw holding strength" and one of it's main targets is outdoor cabinets and furniture, including cabinet doors and drawer fronts.

Blum says their thin panel attachment method is made for both hard and soft materials: "Steel teeth bite into the material of hard fronts while nylon components ensure firm anchorage in soft materials." They have tested with MDF and particle board although not yet any HDPE. I do see that Weyerhaeuser shows 300 lb pull-out strength for screws in MDF, King shows 755 lbs for Starboard ST.

Here's an enlarged view of the attachment. Sort of like big expanding screws. If it will hold in particle board then I would think it would hold better in Starboard ST.

Blum attachment.jpg
 

GeorgeRa

2013 Sprinter DIY 144WB, Portland OR
It seems as Starboard ST is closer to Seaboard and Seaboard is better than Starboard. I only tested Starboard and Seaboard for scratch resistance and chose Seaboard. Today it seems as Starboard ST would be the best choice. Personally, I would use either thicker material with Blum thin material hinges or bolt through.

HDPE.png
 

Airtime

Active member
I downloaded the Blum CAD model, it looks pretty simple to mount to either series 10 or series 15 with a simple adapter plate. Below is an example. The hinge is 71B453T and the hinge plate is 173H7100. This is a Blumotion soft close hinge with the Expando T attachments for thin doors and drawer fronts 8-14mm thick (5/16 - 9/16). Hinge with adapter.jpg

The two buttons on the end of the hinge are the "Expando T" attachments. There are two holes to drill in the back of the door for each hinge, 10mm diameter and 6mm deep.

In terms of structural strength using Starboard ST--I'm not too worried about hole elongation in a door that may weigh 3-4 lbs. and will have a total of 4 of these attachment points across the two hinges. King says it has excellent screw holding strength, I'll take them at their word and try it out. I was thinking to use 3/8" material--save weight and cost and should be plenty stiff enough. But then remembered I have a Southco latch design for series 10 with 1/2" door/drawer fronts that would not work with thinner material. So I may just stick with 1/2". Either way, I need these latches since the cup depth on standard hinges is 7/16" which only works for 5/8" or thicker material.

I've ordered a couple parts to test the concept before I (finally) finalize my galley design.
 

Dave D

Active member
Dave has built two and I'm still designing my first, and of course we all have our biases ;). But that said, after looking at the 80/20 deflection calculator and the connector strengths, I am very comfortable with the strength of series 10. Especially when the structure will be bolted to both walls and floors, with modules bolted to each other. Where I want more strength, like under my battery, I can use 1020 (1"x2") which is stronger than 1515, both in deflection and in fasteners since it uses 2 fasteners per joint.

Series 10 eats up less space in your cabinet drawers and doors, and cabinet space is a precious commodity in a van. Also it is close to half the weight and half the cost of series 15. So there are pros and cons.

The default 80./20 assumption is that panels are inserted in the slots. Yes would have to be cut and finished ahead and then inserted during assembly, but edge finishing is not needed since edges are hidden in the slots. Panels installed this way are not removable without some disassembly. But you don't even have that option with most wood cabinetry.

You can buy cut to order panels from 80/20, including the notching needed for connector clearance. It costs more than cutting your own of course.

Yes it is not as easy to mount removable panels flush with the frame surface. There are no standard panel mount parts that allow this. There are for series 15, but Dave fabricates panel mount hardware of his own design. I did design a modified panel mount part that would allow flush mounting of panels in series 10 and got some CNC quotes, but not yet sure if I will order them.

Sliders as George pointed out can a good solution in some cases where removable panels are needed, and 80/20 has the slider tracks. The sliding panels are also easily removable without screws.
I’ll see if I can add some useful information to your and a couple of recent posts. I used all 10 series in my build with ¼” bamboo panels slid into the slots. True ¼“ panels are pretty tight to slide in (Especially after several clear coats) and I ran all mine on the router table to shave the inner edge. I made a few as removable panels by making them slightly bigger on one side than the opening so they can be slid into one slot and screwed into two 8020 panel brackets on the opposite side. Here’s what my cabinets look like (the lower left panel on the driver side is removable and you can see the 2 Surface screws):

9419283B-BB80-44C5-87CD-BC3915ADB2DB.jpeg

10 series is plenty strong for a safe build, as it is really the fastening method that determines overall strength. I went with double anchors everywhere I could and 1x2” where possible. As the 8020 chart below shows, a double anchor has 3x the strength of a corner bracket. 10 series with anchors will be 2.5 times the strength as 15 series built with corner brackets. Regarding the bolt size, a ¼ x 20 SS bolt has a clamp and shear strength >2,000 lbs, so while a 5/16“ bolt will jump you up 50% in strength, the failure point is the bracket it’s attached to so you are not really gaining anything.

1606718711808.jpeg
 

Graphite Dave

Dave Orton
Inexpensive DIY 3/16" thick angle and flatbar brackets with 15 series provide overkill strength for corner connections. Van conversions do not require the joint strength needed for other uses. Did find out elastic stop nuts are required due to the vibration. Used serrated flange nuts on the first build but had some loosen so changed to elastic stop nuts on the second build.

When using SS nuts and bolts tread lubricant is required to prevent galling.

DaveD: Your conversion is gorgeous.
 

Airtime

Active member
I’ll see if I can add some useful information to your and a couple of recent posts. I used all 10 series in my build with ¼” bamboo panels slid into the slots. True ¼“ panels are pretty tight to slide in (Especially after several clear coats) and I ran all mine on the router table to shave the inner edge. I made a few as removable panels by making them slightly bigger on one side than the opening so they can be slid into one slot and screwed into two 8020 panel brackets on the opposite side. Here’s what my cabinets look like (the lower left panel on the driver side is removable and you can see the 2 Surface screws):
Wow what a nice build! What panel bracket did you use? Looks like it allows installing panels at the same depth as panels just mounted in slots.
 

GeorgeRa

2013 Sprinter DIY 144WB, Portland OR
I’ll see if I can add some useful information to your and a couple of recent posts. I used all 10 series in my build with ¼” bamboo panels slid into the slots. True ¼“ panels are pretty tight to slide in (Especially after several clear coats) and I ran all mine on the router table to shave the inner edge. I made a few as removable panels by making them slightly bigger on one side than the opening so they can be slid into one slot and screwed into two 8020 panel brackets on the opposite side. Here’s what my cabinets look like (the lower left panel on the driver side is removable and you can see the 2 Surface screws):

10 series is plenty strong for a safe build, as it is really the fastening method that determines overall strength. I went with double anchors everywhere I could and 1x2” where possible. As the 8020 chart below shows, a double anchor has 3x the strength of a corner bracket. 10 series with anchors will be 2.5 times the strength as 15 series built with corner brackets. Regarding the bolt size, a ¼ x 20 SS bolt has a clamp and shear strength >2,000 lbs, so while a 5/16“ bolt will jump you up 50% in strength, the failure point is the bracket it’s attached to so you are not really gaining anything.

View attachment 162257
Very nice conversion and you have very good points. I used single and double anchor brackets in places where strong assembly was required. For most I used corner bracket with end fastener combination or other combinations. My objective was to use floor attachment only except O/H cabinets, so the choice was 15 series. If I had to do it again, I would choose between 10 or 15 series or Quick Frame.
 

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