Anyone with a 4xx sprinter downrated to 3.5 ton?

loz

New member
Hi,

Is there anyone with a 4.6 ton sprinter that has been downrated to 3.5 ton?

I need to find out the thickness of the bump stop plates that go under the bump stops to make it a 3.5 ton:thinking:

cheers,loz
 

Altered Sprinter

Happy Little Vegemite
Do you mean the rear parabolic springs?
Richard
 

loz

New member
Do you mean the rear parabolic springs?
Richard
hi,

no there's a bump stop above the spring mounted to the body. Below the bump stop is the axle, and on the axle is a block of metal that is a certain thickness which makes the gross weight (on paper) 3.5tonne.In the UK to downrate it from 4.6 to 3.5 tonnes(for many legal reasons) this has to be done when it's a panel van or in this case minibus.
 

Altered Sprinter

Happy Little Vegemite
Lots me completely, the Bump stop English V elsewhere is just a secondary impact shock absorber. Rubber spacers between springs are sound and impact absorbers.
Raised metal blocks betwwen the chassis is based on low and high variant models such as a raised camper or in the NAFTA models on Tins for allowance of 16" rims as opposed to the normal 15" rims
At the same time a 4x4 of which is raised as to center of gravity,as to ground clearance. same as a 5 metric tonne Cab over chassis variant refereed to as a 616 cdi.
If I look at what you have asked for ,you state 4.6 T this unit is a 5.1 MT unit, down rated to 4.6 MT [OR AS DESIGNATED ON YOUR SPECS A 4.45 TO 4.95 mt VARIANT] with dual rear wheels, with multiple parabolic springs under the SAA codes your main spring will read 903 3200 1850 three designated codes for springs;= X 004 070928 as an example
Your rear main parabolic spring on the eye shackle has a MB number stamped into the actual SPRING IT'S NOT REMOVABLE AS IS THE PRINTED NUMBERING SEQUENCES AS TO CODEX ON THE FACE OF YOUR MAIN PARABOLIC SPRING. it-represents the loadings as to your front axle it should read 1850 on a Tin cargo van or 1900 KG on a Cab-over chassis unit.
Again your question asks down-rating to 3500 ,unless its a Cargo van single wheel job this model 4.6 can not be configured by down weighting to a 3500 KG unit,unless you can get a certificate from the TUV that the van is used for non commercial use, and it's for private or passenger use only.
You can swap over rear springs to two as a 3.8 GVM /variants one raised the height,with softer ride Or the other is for a lower ride designed to be firmer and carry a higher weight.
ON the Tin ,there was on H/D parabolic single spring that up rated the GVM capacity to 3.8 GVM, and the Compliance plates still remained 3500KG.
Are you looking for a tax plate compliance get out of ticket! or attempting to bring a 4 /5 series van back to 3.4 GVM to get out of the stricter emission controls applied to a 3500.5KG and over van.
I don't think you can do it with out a rectification from an engineer ,if you succeed then a new plate is designated as to the GVM ,now days its a transport approved yellow sticker stating it's new certificated weight.
One member in the UK has a 4.2 GVM SuSi super single wide rear wheel unit van that has a re-certificated plate back to 3.8 or 3500KG variant.and this is a current model 2010 NCV.
Richard
 

loz

New member
Lots me completely, the Bump stop English V elsewhere is just a secondary impact shock absorber. Rubber spacers between springs are sound and impact absorbers.
Raised metal blocks betwwen the chassis is based on low and high variant models such as a raised camper or in the NAFTA models on Tins for allowance of 16" rims as opposed to the normal 15" rims
At the same time a 4x4 of which is raised as to center of gravity,as to ground clearance. same as a 5 metric tonne Cab over chassis variant refereed to as a 616 cdi.
If I look at what you have asked for ,you state 4.6 T this unit is a 5.1 MT unit, down rated to 4.6 MT [OR AS DESIGNATED ON YOUR SPECS A 4.45 TO 4.95 mt VARIANT] with dual rear wheels, with multiple parabolic springs under the SAA codes your main spring will read 903 3200 1850 three designated codes for springs;= X 004 070928 as an example
Your rear main parabolic spring on the eye shackle has a MB number stamped into the actual SPRING IT'S NOT REMOVABLE AS IS THE PRINTED NUMBERING SEQUENCES AS TO CODEX ON THE FACE OF YOUR MAIN PARABOLIC SPRING. it-represents the loadings as to your front axle it should read 1850 on a Tin cargo van or 1900 KG on a Cab-over chassis unit.
Again your question asks down-rating to 3500 ,unless its a Cargo van single wheel job this model 4.6 can not be configured by down weighting to a 3500 KG unit,unless you can get a certificate from the TUV that the van is used for non commercial use, and it's for private or passenger use only.
You can swap over rear springs to two as a 3.8 GVM /variants one raised the height,with softer ride Or the other is for a lower ride designed to be firmer and carry a higher weight.
ON the Tin ,there was on H/D parabolic single spring that up rated the GVM capacity to 3.8 GVM, and the Compliance plates still remained 3500KG.
Are you looking for a tax plate compliance get out of ticket! or attempting to bring a 4 /5 series van back to 3.4 GVM to get out of the stricter emission controls applied to a 3500.5KG and over van.
I don't think you can do it with out a rectification from an engineer ,if you succeed then a new plate is designated as to the GVM ,now days its a transport approved yellow sticker stating it's new certificated weight.
One member in the UK has a 4.2 GVM SuSi super single wide rear wheel unit van that has a re-certificated plate back to 3.8 or 3500KG variant.and this is a current model 2010 NCV.
Richard

I know what a bump stop does.It is common practice to downrate to 3.5t in the UK, especially twin wheel 4.6t sprinters(1995-2000).You can not drive anything over 3.5t if you've passed your driving license after Jan 1997 in the UK. I really need someone who has a downrated 4.6t sprinter to reply.:thumbup:
 

tom_LTMS

New member
Hi Loz
I thought down rating was just a paperwork exercise here in the UK? :thinking:
My understanding is that you have to fill in a VTG 10 form from VOSA.
VOSA may want to have a look at the van to see why you want to down rate it.
You don't have to put any kind of down rate kit on it as you are decreasing not increasing it's weight.
You will need to get a new VIN plate stating the new GVW and you will have to get that from Mercedes, if I where you I would talk to your local M.B. Commercial dealership in the first instance about down rating, it's a common enough occurrence. :thumbup:

Richard- Down rating for us in the UK is mainly for driving licence reasons (post 97 driving licences are limited to 3500kg without a higher (C1) test pass to extend to 7500kg entitlement) other plus' for down rate is a simpler (cheaper) yearly inspection (MOT) as to vehicle classification based on weight.
As usual your in-depth technical is truly impressive! :bow:
 

mean_in_green

>2,000,000m in MB vans
Yes the Notifiable Alteration (VTG10) and a VOSA inspection are required, as well as a technical declaration from a competent source detailing the suspension calculations. The idea is that the packers are welded where the bump stops touch the axle thereby (crudely) restricting the suspension travel and preventing you from carrying the weight the van previously could. It's an effective if somewhat amateurish solution. Respringing seems a better approach to my mind, but hey what do I know?

Mercedes dealers don't get involved in the UK. Their point of view will be that you should've bought the van you needed to begin with. You could try speaking with Technical at Tongwell (UK Head Office) though - you will need them to support the proposed change for VOSA to accept it, as VOSA's data is based on DC's. It's unlikely to be an issue though, enough people have bought the teeshirt.

The technical data detailing the alterations will also need to be submitted - this is usually done by the competent source, not you. There are companies who do the whole thing for you, but the cheapest way will be for you to do it will be to buy a kit from one (with the packers) and weld them on locally whilst they do the paperwork for you. You need to paint the packers yellow prior to the inspection. You then arrange the VOSA inspection and submit your VTG10. If approved upon inspection and the paperwork is correct the new V5 with revised GVW will come back in the post.

From memory I think the packers will be ~30mm. I'm thinking it'll cost you between £200 and £500 depending on how you choose to do it.

Be aware that VOSA are getting keener by the month to take a look at vans in the 3.5/7.5t weight range.
 
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Altered Sprinter

Happy Little Vegemite
3500Kg passenger license OK Ours [Aus]are 4.99/ GVM over 5 MT reticulated driving licence required.
The lowest
We can lower a 5 series is back to 4.9 GVM yellow sticker job but engineering wise, no to 3500KG
Richard
 

loz

New member
thanks for the replies.

It's dependant on the vehicle if it's a paper work only exercise.On the twin wheel sprinter an alteration and inspection is required. I've spoken to various companies and agencies about this. Merc say they change the springs over and they have tried to get the info to downrate from vosa but vosa won't tell them. Svtech want £300 basically which is way too much for what they do.

You can submit your own calculations along with your own packer/spacers and a completed VTG10 and Vosa will "assess it as an individual application"(their words)-and if their technical inspector accepts your method and calculations they wll down rate it(you don't need a new vin plate with the lower gross on-thats for vehicles that are not HGV)

So I just want to confirm what the actual spacer height is so I can base my calculations on that.

Is definitely 30mm?

thanks again,loz
 
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mean_in_green

>2,000,000m in MB vans
A likely story... Tongwell know what springs suit what. As if VOSA have all the answers and DC ask them for advice?!

Unless the vehicle is only ever used on private business and not Hire & Reward you may still need a new VIN plate though. Although you would know the van had been through the downrating excercise it would still appear to the casual observer to be 4,600kgs not 3,500kgs GVW. I'm assuming you would be proposing to tax it as Private Light Goods after downrating, which would create a contradiction between the VIN plate and the tax disc. Easy to sort though, you don't have to pester DC - PM me if you want help with that one.

I have the figure of 30mm in my head over the packers, but don't have anything on paper to confirm it - I'll see what I can do.

Edit: yes, they need to be 30mm in height. I'm afraid I don't have more information regarding the technical calculations.
 
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loz

New member
A likely story... Tongwell know what springs suit what. As if VOSA have all the answers and DC ask them for advice?![/I]
I'm just telling you what mercedes told me.....

Mercedes said to downrate they just change the springs over from 4.6t to 3.5t. They said they wanted to know the calculations and the spacer height to do it with out changing the springs but Vosa would not tell them because the info belongs to SVtech.
 
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loz

New member
I have the figure of 30mm in my head over the packers, but don't have anything on paper to confirm it - I'll see what I can do.

Edit: yes, they need to be 30mm in height. I'm afraid I don't have more information regarding the technical calculations.

thanks that's what I needed to know.

loz
 

mean_in_green

>2,000,000m in MB vans
No worries. I see what you're saying, but really the info doesn't belong to anyone. I was able to find out the spacer height pretty easily.

Let's not kid ourselves that the manufacturer really couldn't figure this one out if they wanted to - more likely the case that they don't see the need to get involved. They'd rather just sell you the other springs after all.
 

loz

New member
No worries. I see what you're saying, but really the info doesn't belong to anyone. I was able to find out the spacer height pretty easily.

Let's not kid ourselves that the manufacturer really couldn't figure this one out if they wanted to - more likely the case that they don't see the need to get involved. They'd rather just sell you the other springs after all.
I'm just posting what mercedes told me. phone them up yourself if you really think I'm lying.

Vosa are bound legally not to disclose the calculations(the important part of the info) etc to anyone as its legally owned by Svtech.

believe what ever you will, Just don't expect me to take being called a liar lightly.
 

mean_in_green

>2,000,000m in MB vans
SVtech arrived at calculations in a format mutually agreeable with VOSA. SVtech don't own mathematics!

I've explained the process facing you to achieve the goal and answered your question, whilst expressing an opinion which disagrees with the one put to you by the dealer.

SVtech want £300 - what's the forum advice cost you so far? Seems misunderstood through the ether? Re read, nothing personal in it.
 

loz

New member
SVtech arrived at calculations in a format mutually agreeable with VOSA. SVtech don't own mathematics!

I've explained the process facing you to achieve the goal and answered your question, whilst expressing an opinion which disagrees with the one put to you by the dealer.

SVtech want £300 - what's the forum advice cost you so far? Seems misunderstood through the ether? Re read, nothing personal in it.
I think you should re-read what I wrote-I did not say Svtech own maths.

I said it's what they told me-saying it's a "likely story" and "lets not kid our selves" imples that for somereason you think I'M lying not mercedes technical.

I said thank when you answered my question before.
 

autostaretx

Erratic Member
Loz, as a bystander (by-reader?) i read mean_in_green to say that *Mercedes* was not telling you the whole truth available to them.

In no way did i see him as saying that you were (to use your term) "lying".

So direct your ire towards Mercedes for withholding information, not to mean_in_green.

It is quite common (at least here in the US) for government agencies to withhold information submitted by one applicant for "proprietary commercial" (or simple privacy) reasons.
(just think of how many lawyers would be put out of work if actual examples of "accepted submittals" were widely available...)

--dick
 

loz

New member
Loz, as a bystander (by-reader?) i read mean_in_green to say that *Mercedes* was not telling you the whole truth available to them.

In no way did i see him as saying that you were (to use your term) "lying".

So direct your ire towards Mercedes for withholding information, not to mean_in_green.

It is quite common (at least here in the US) for government agencies to withhold information submitted by one applicant for "proprietary commercial" (or simple privacy) reasons.
(just think of how many lawyers would be put out of work if actual examples of "accepted submittals" were widely available...)

--dick

Looks like I owe MIG an apology....

sorry for being a prat MIG, I understand what you meant now.

Hopfully I'll manage to downrate my 4.6t sprinter and post how I managed to do it on here.

cheers,loz
 

mean_in_green

>2,000,000m in MB vans
Don't be daft! Post up how you get on with the task, I'm sure this could become a very useful reference thread.
 

loz

New member
Don't be daft! Post up how you get on with the task, I'm sure this could become a very useful reference thread.
Well after a lot of messing about and backwards and forwards letters from the dvla, I finally got my 4.6t sprinter downrated to 3.5t :thumbup:

Here's how I did it:

If you have a panel van then this might not work but give it a try as it is much cheaper and easier than doing it through vosa and SVtech.

It works for campers and minibuses. In your V5 in the blue section you write down the weight as 3.5t with a cover note explaining that it has a new vin with the new Gross weight on it,then send it to dvla. After what seems like decades they send you a list of various documents they will accept as evidence of the weight change(one of them being a note from vosa explaning it has gone through a very costly inspection and letter from svtech).
The last option is a weight certificate from a weighbridge that is registered with the local council/trading standards.

So take it to a weighbridge get them to print out a ticket with your reg number on and send it off to the dvla But don't expect a quick reply.

What ever weight that is on the weighbridge ticket you send them they will put on the V5 as Gross weight, so if it says 2t on the ticket they will put that as the Gross weight on the V5! so the weighbridge ticket much state the weight you want as the gross weight.

hope that helps anyone who has to go through this tiring experience.
 

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