Here's a random log entry from one of my Nautabox tests... I've attached the complete file below.Would anyone be able to give me a baseline for MAF and TCM torque at full throttle around 2-3k RPMs?
TIME | Speed (mph) | LOD % | Coolant Temp (F) | Intake Air Pressure (psi) | MAP (psi) | Turbo %pwm (0=full) | MAF (g/sec) | Fuel RP (psi) | EGR (%pwm) | Engine Torque (ft-lbs) | Converted Torq output (ft-lbs) | Engine RPM | Actual Gear |
13:32:58 | 25 | 99 | 177.35 | 12.876 | 32.857 | 65 | 125.03 | 22243 | 29.82 | 229.39 | 229.39 | 2589 | 2nd |
13:04:48 | 61 | 99 | 161.15 | 12.891 | 29.478 | 74 | 96.02 | 20203 | 36.5 | 222.02 | 222.02 | 2325 | 5th |
13:08:03 | 73 | 99 | 185.45 | 12.789 | 32.277 | 61 | 129.97 | 22658 | 29.89 | 221.28 | 221.28 | 2793 | 5th |
13:04:23 | 36 | 99 | 152.51 | 12.905 | 31.276 | 65 | 118.05 | 20777 | 28.69 | 217.59 | 217.59 | 2432 | 3rd |
13:06:18 | 61 | 99 | 181.31 | 12.832 | 32.161 | 62 | 139.44 | 22722 | 5.29 | 215.38 | 215.38 | 2828 | 4th |
13:06:13 | 50 | 99 | 180.41 | 12.818 | 33.828 | 59 | 158.41 | 23009 | 29.47 | 209.48 | 209.48 | 3253 | 3rd |
13:04:29 | 53 | 99 | 153.05 | 12.803 | 31.929 | 54 | 150.75 | 23104 | 34.73 | 205.05 | 205.05 | 3410 | 3rd |
13:42:28 | 33 | 99 | 181.85 | 12.977 | 21.779 | 95 | 46.38 | 14658 | 22.98 | 170.39 | 170.39 | 1567 | 4th |
13:39:23 | 28 | 97 | 182.75 | 12.934 | 29.986 | 74 | 87.14 | 18292 | 20.86 | 234.56 | 234.56 | 1906 | 3rd |
13:42:34 | 34 | 94 | 182.75 | 12.934 | 27.129 | 77 | 62.19 | 16858 | 14.38 | 222.76 | 222.76 | 1610 | 4th |
13:42:38 | 34 | 94 | 183.65 | 12.934 | 26.984 | 77 | 61.52 | 17145 | 15.55 | 220.54 | 220.54 | 1621 | 4th |
13:07:59 | 68 | 92 | 185.09 | 12.818 | 31.682 | 69 | 115.03 | 21256 | 5.29 | 204.32 | 204.32 | 2594 | 5th |
13:02:47 | 47 | 92 | 134.87 | 12.934 | 28.536 | 74 | 72.64 | 17686 | 23.24 | 202.84 | 202.84 | 1823 | 5th |
13:03:49 | 1 | 92 | 146.57 | 12.992 | 17.139 | 86 | 54.83 | 12746 | 9.98 | 127.6 | 183.66 | 1653 | 1st |
12:56:53 | 4 | 91 | 59.81 | 12.934 | 18.198 | 93 | 54.33 | 13352 | 10 | 122.44 | 154.9 | 1600 | 1st |
13:38:39 | 48 | 90 | 183.11 | 12.934 | 26.912 | 76 | 75.64 | 17845 | 5.29 | 216.85 | 216.85 | 1857 | 5th |
13:34:27 | 51 | 90 | 185.99 | 12.919 | 29.449 | 65 | 80.36 | 15773 | 23.53 | 200.63 | 200.63 | 1995 | 5th |
13:34:08 | 40 | 90 | 182.21 | 12.847 | 31.044 | 68 | 115.55 | 21383 | 32.96 | 199.89 | 199.89 | 2618 | 3rd |
13:02:44 | 44 | 90 | 133.79 | 12.948 | 28.159 | 82 | 69.97 | 16985 | 19.64 | 196.2 | 196.2 | 1740 | 5th |
Following up on this request, I was watching my dash box today (first prototype so no data logged…) and I could get 300 foot pounds indicated during full-on pedal-to-the-floor launches, with the MAF reading up around 160 g/sec.Would anyone be able to give me a baseline for MAF and TCM torque at full throttle around 2-3k RPMs?
I cannot get my Autel AP200 to communicate with the TCM, so unable to check that torque spec. Do you know if that value is calculated or actually measured?Following up on this request, I was watching my dash box today (first prototype so no data logged…) and I could get 300 foot pounds indicated during full-on pedal-to-the-floor launches, with the MAF reading up around 160 g/sec.
The charts vary, but I found web pages claiming that the om647 is rated at 400 N•m (303 ft•lbs) @ 1800 rpm, which agrees with what I saw today.
-dave
Have you been able to read the output torque value from the TCM successfully on the T1N's? If so, what scanner were you using, and do you know if it is a measured or a calculated value?Injected fuel quantity isn't viewable on the AP200, Only advanced scan tools can access that, as its behind a second level of security/diagnostics on the ECM.
You may be able to connect to the TCM and view the output torque value. Not sure if that will be helpful though.
The MAF reading is mg per revolution (hub). Which is a valid measurement. I don't recall the normal values off hand. The mg/hub value should increase with engine load, but not necessarily with RPM (mg/second would increase with RPM).
My Autel Md802 reads it just fine. Its a calculated value supplied by the ECM and is based on fuel injected.Have you been able to read the output torque value from the TCM successfully on the T1N's? If so, what scanner were you using, and do you know if it is a measured or a calculated value?
And that's while connecting straight to the TCM and not the ECU controller, correct?My Autel Md802 reads it just fine. Its a calculated value supplied by the ECM and is based on fuel injected.
I also can't read MAF in g/sec. Mine is showing as mg/hub and at full throttle it reads 1150 mg/Hub. Is there a way to convert that to g/sec or vice versa?
Yes. I haven't looked for that value on the ECM, not sure if its available.And that's while connecting straight to the TCM and not the ECU controller, correct?
There are no strain gauges in the system so I expect it’s a calculated value based on engine fueling and torque converter slip (for TC output torque, which is what the TCM needs to manage/predict shift pressures). I don’t know this for certain, but the Xentry tools certainly display a TC input & output torque value. I thought my AP200 does too? You’d have to go down through the “Scan” menu and select the correct Sprinter model (901 or WD…) then select the correct transmission module (I think it’s labeled “EGS” but it’s been quite a while…)I cannot get my Autel AP200 to communicate with the TCM, so unable to check that torque spec. Do you know if that value is calculated or actually measured?
I also can't read MAF in g/sec. Mine is showing as mg/hub and at full throttle it reads 1150 mg/Hub. Is there a way to convert that to g/sec or vice versa?
Really appreciate all the help here...
For example 234.56 ft-lbs at 87 g/sec or 223 ft-lbs at 62 g/sec.
TIME Speed
(mph)LOD
%Coolant
Temp
(F)Intake Air
Pressure
(psi)MAP
(psi)Turbo
%pwm
(0=full)MAF
(g/sec)Fuel RP
(psi)EGR
(%pwm)Engine
Torque
(ft-lbs)Converted
Torq output
(ft-lbs)Engine
RPMActual
Gear13:32:58 25 99 177.35 12.876 32.857 65 125.03 22243 29.82 229.39 229.39 2589 2nd 13:04:48 61 99 161.15 12.891 29.478 74 96.02 20203 36.5 222.02 222.02 2325 5th 13:08:03 73 99 185.45 12.789 32.277 61 129.97 22658 29.89 221.28 221.28 2793 5th 13:04:23 36 99 152.51 12.905 31.276 65 118.05 20777 28.69 217.59 217.59 2432 3rd 13:06:18 61 99 181.31 12.832 32.161 62 139.44 22722 5.29 215.38 215.38 2828 4th 13:06:13 50 99 180.41 12.818 33.828 59 158.41 23009 29.47 209.48 209.48 3253 3rd 13:04:29 53 99 153.05 12.803 31.929 54 150.75 23104 34.73 205.05 205.05 3410 3rd 13:42:28 33 99 181.85 12.977 21.779 95 46.38 14658 22.98 170.39 170.39 1567 4th 13:39:23 28 97 182.75 12.934 29.986 74 87.14 18292 20.86 234.56 234.56 1906 3rd 13:42:34 34 94 182.75 12.934 27.129 77 62.19 16858 14.38 222.76 222.76 1610 4th 13:42:38 34 94 183.65 12.934 26.984 77 61.52 17145 15.55 220.54 220.54 1621 4th 13:07:59 68 92 185.09 12.818 31.682 69 115.03 21256 5.29 204.32 204.32 2594 5th 13:02:47 47 92 134.87 12.934 28.536 74 72.64 17686 23.24 202.84 202.84 1823 5th 13:03:49 1 92 146.57 12.992 17.139 86 54.83 12746 9.98 127.6 183.66 1653 1st 12:56:53 4 91 59.81 12.934 18.198 93 54.33 13352 10 122.44 154.9 1600 1st 13:38:39 48 90 183.11 12.934 26.912 76 75.64 17845 5.29 216.85 216.85 1857 5th 13:34:27 51 90 185.99 12.919 29.449 65 80.36 15773 23.53 200.63 200.63 1995 5th 13:34:08 40 90 182.21 12.847 31.044 68 115.55 21383 32.96 199.89 199.89 2618 3rd 13:02:44 44 90 133.79 12.948 28.159 82 69.97 16985 19.64 196.2 196.2 1740 5th
Do you recall what around what RPM you were hitting max torque at? Was it closer to the 1800 rpm rating or 2500-2700 RPM like I've been measuring?Following up on this request, I was watching my dash box today (first prototype so no data logged…) and I could get 300 foot pounds indicated during full-on pedal-to-the-floor launches, with the MAF reading up around 160 g/sec.
The charts vary, but I found web pages claiming that the om647 is rated at 400 N•m (303 ft•lbs) @ 1800 rpm, which agrees with what I saw today.
Right after launching, as I (quickly) pass 2000 rpm. I’ll see if I can pull similar graphs for you from my AP200.Do you recall what around what RPM you were hitting max torque at? Was it closer to the 1800 rpm rating or 2500-2700 RPM like I've been measuring?
What are you using to get all this data a DAD?Same data file from Sept 22, 2020, pared down and sorted by LOD and Engine Torque
TIME Speed
(mph)LOD
%Coolant
Temp
(F)Intake Air
Pressure
(psi)MAP
(psi)Turbo
%pwm
(0=full)MAF
(g/sec)Fuel RP
(psi)EGR
(%pwm)Engine
Torque
(ft-lbs)Converted
Torq output
(ft-lbs)Engine
RPMActual
Gear13:32:58 25 99 177.35 12.876 32.857 65 125.03 22243 29.82 229.39 229.39 2589 2nd 13:04:48 61 99 161.15 12.891 29.478 74 96.02 20203 36.5 222.02 222.02 2325 5th 13:08:03 73 99 185.45 12.789 32.277 61 129.97 22658 29.89 221.28 221.28 2793 5th 13:04:23 36 99 152.51 12.905 31.276 65 118.05 20777 28.69 217.59 217.59 2432 3rd 13:06:18 61 99 181.31 12.832 32.161 62 139.44 22722 5.29 215.38 215.38 2828 4th 13:06:13 50 99 180.41 12.818 33.828 59 158.41 23009 29.47 209.48 209.48 3253 3rd 13:04:29 53 99 153.05 12.803 31.929 54 150.75 23104 34.73 205.05 205.05 3410 3rd 13:42:28 33 99 181.85 12.977 21.779 95 46.38 14658 22.98 170.39 170.39 1567 4th 13:39:23 28 97 182.75 12.934 29.986 74 87.14 18292 20.86 234.56 234.56 1906 3rd 13:42:34 34 94 182.75 12.934 27.129 77 62.19 16858 14.38 222.76 222.76 1610 4th 13:42:38 34 94 183.65 12.934 26.984 77 61.52 17145 15.55 220.54 220.54 1621 4th 13:07:59 68 92 185.09 12.818 31.682 69 115.03 21256 5.29 204.32 204.32 2594 5th 13:02:47 47 92 134.87 12.934 28.536 74 72.64 17686 23.24 202.84 202.84 1823 5th 13:03:49 1 92 146.57 12.992 17.139 86 54.83 12746 9.98 127.6 183.66 1653 1st 12:56:53 4 91 59.81 12.934 18.198 93 54.33 13352 10 122.44 154.9 1600 1st 13:38:39 48 90 183.11 12.934 26.912 76 75.64 17845 5.29 216.85 216.85 1857 5th 13:34:27 51 90 185.99 12.919 29.449 65 80.36 15773 23.53 200.63 200.63 1995 5th 13:34:08 40 90 182.21 12.847 31.044 68 115.55 21383 32.96 199.89 199.89 2618 3rd 13:02:44 44 90 133.79 12.948 28.159 82 69.97 16985 19.64 196.2 196.2 1740 5th
That would be fantastic, thank you!I’ll see if I can pull similar graphs for you from my AP200.
I used a homemade arduino-based gadget dubbed the Nautabox, which polls the diagnostic lines of the engine and transmission and writes continually to an SD card. Parts got scarce during Covid and I got out of the habit of building them, but there are about 100 units out in the wild (owned by forum members).What are you using to get all this data a DAD?
Any special tricks to get the AP200 communicating with the TCM? My AP200 doesn't want to talk TCU with my 2006. ThanksOk finally got connected to the TCM and was able to observe calculated torque values.
Unfortunately, AP200 doesn't allow me to log data, so I am just relying on some screenshots from a 2nd gear pull:
Max Torque: 250 ft-lbs
Torque at 1200 RPM: 83 ft-lbs
Torque at 1800 RPM: 178 ft-lbs
Torque at 2350 RPM: 242 ft-lbs
Max Torque achieved ~2,500 RPM
Attached is a screenshot of the torque pulling from a standstill through 3rd gear (look at the line graph):
View attachment 244333
Strange that it stays flatlined on 250 during the third gear (through 2500-3500 RPM likely) instead of falling off like it showed on the two other gears.
Thoughts? Is this enough to show a shop to determine there is a problem with the van? Any way to determine if cause of the low power is on the engine side or the torque converter side? Do the low MAF readings (1150 mg/hub noted above) show enough support for having this be an engine problem?
I will also say the van feels especially sluggish right off the line under no boost...
I would confirm continuity from the OBD2 socket to the TCM on the relevant k line wire.Any special tricks to get the AP200 communicating with the TCM? My AP200 doesn't want to talk TCU with my 2006. Thanks