Scan tool not working after ECU replacement.

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Ivan Borisovich

Born in the DZ - From Exton PA
autostaretx said:
I have the AP200, and you're welcome to drop by to see if it can sniff your Sprinter to the depth you wish
... but NOT THIS WEEKEND (14/15/16) (we're doing an art show in the front yard (you CAN come for that, we're site #3))

Monday and onward is fine. Expect it to take a half hour (there's always hiccups...)

In theory the AP200 is basically the Autel 808, but uses a smartphone as its interface

--dick
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The app for the AP200 is kept up to date via app market or play store. I can confirm that AP200 does communicate with ECUs (CR60/CR43) that have the AEM firmware. Thinkdiag dongle does too, far faster than AP200.
 
marklg

marklg

Well-known member
The MS906BT is a good tool, but meant for a repair shop that will continuously update it, at a cost of a few hundred a year. It seems like a rare choice for a DIYer as the upgrades are so expensive.

If you want the most capability for the least money, I would suggest the Thinkdiag as it has been reported to work. As I said, updates for that go on sale for about $100 a year, reasonable for a DIYer. I also have three AP200s, one each with a lifetime single model subscription for Benz_Sprinter, Honda and Subaru. Those combine to provide very good capability on all the vehicles we have. The Thinkdiag is usually better for most things but the AP200 supports the heater booster better, for example.

Regards,

Mark
 
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525rider

Member
Does any of these AP200 and Thinkdiag require internet connection when using it?
I just tested MS906BT on two other vehicles and it works flawlessly just like before.
As Ivan said, I don't have enough knowledge of these systems, that's why I am here for help. But I am getting some conflicting opinions.
Ivan says I need update (which I would get if I am sure that would fix it) Autel tech says nothing would work unless dealership fixes it (coding, reflashing )
 
autostaretx

autostaretx

Erratic Member
525rider said:
Does any of these AP200 and Thinkdiag require internet connection when using it?
Click to expand...
The AP200 requires a data connection (cell service works) when you start the app .... that's when it checks to see what you're licensed to sniff.

Once you're past that, you don't need a data connection ... until you kill the app and try to restart it.

--dick
 
marklg

marklg

Well-known member
525rider said:
Does any of these AP200 and Thinkdiag require internet connection when using it?
I just tested MS906BT on two other vehicles and it works flawlessly just like before.
As Ivan said, I don't have enough knowledge of these systems, that's why I am here for help. But I am getting some conflicting opinions.
Ivan says I need update (which I would get if I am sure that would fix it) Autel tech says nothing would work unless dealership fixes it (coding, reflashing )
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The Autel rep is not correct, or there is a misunderstanding between you two. Autel often takes months to respond to manufacturer's changes. So, the update may not yet cover the new ECM and in Autel's view, you need to go to the manufacturer for changes. From Mercedes' standpoint, it's done and their factory systems can talk to the ECU just fine.

Let me add a non technical analogy.

Your van ECU used to speak Italian. Both the Mercedes dealership scanners and the Autel spoke Italian just fine. After the AEM and ECU replacement, the ECU now speaks Spanish. The Mercedes dealership scanners were taught Spanish and they can speak to the ECU. The Autel does not know how to speak Spanish, so when it is connected to your van, it has no idea what it is saying. The solution is for Autel to teach their scanner how to speak Spanish. As I said, that may take many months, so the latest update may not yet speak Spanish. Unless we get someone to pipe in that has tried it, we don't know. People have confirmed that the AP200 and Thinkdiag know how to speak Spanish now.

The Thinkdiag also needs a network connection. I haven't tested to see if it can be interrupted and still work after logging in.

Regards,

Mark
 
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I

Ivan Borisovich

Born in the DZ - From Exton PA
525rider said:
Does any of these AP200 and Thinkdiag require internet connection when using it?
I just tested MS906BT on two other vehicles and it works flawlessly just like before.
As Ivan said, I don't have enough knowledge of these systems, that's why I am here for help. But I am getting some conflicting opinions.
Ivan says I need update (which I would get if I am sure that would fix it) Autel tech says nothing would work unless dealership fixes it (coding, reflashing )
Click to expand...
What are the other 2 vehicles that you tested on?
 
L

lindenengineering

Well-known member
Some overviews of scan tools and obsolescence.
First Autel are NOTORIOUS in the trade with their scan tool coverage, its basically here today and gone tomorrow .
When it comes to MB sprinter platforms, the operating system changed its access around 2016 if my memory serves me well.
Even with a Pro scan tool like Autologic costing $10,000 a large chunk of the van was suddenly inaccessible mostly in the engine area .
Then along came the AE modification and it changed yet again.
MB in the process denied Autologic access to MB's Xentry system which was legimately purchased simply because they were pirating the MB system onto their own scan tool to provide such services as SCN coding tasks to the Independents in the trade much like Autel does .
In response several other scan tool manufactures have since entered the fray with MB coverage and programming
Notably Snap On is the best being multiplatform capable outside MB coverage with WiTech for Chrysler (Mopar) and Ford coverage as an example
really an ideal tool for a multi brand focused repair shop .Cost $13000!
For all late MB stuff nowadays we now use Snappy Zeus due to its access speed, ease of use . with Autoland, and a non pirated Xentry
In your case Autel clearly don't have an update for these changes, perhaps they never will, hence the run around from Autel tech support !
Remembering of course that Autel is Chinese and notorious for pirating and changing operating systems on their tools at a whim .
I fear in the ultimo you will probably have to purchased another scan tool that is access capable with bidirectional features and pass thru.

Now its worth mentioning at this stage Toyota Techstream.
For $1500 you get access to everything Toyota /Lexus including coding / tech info parts etc..
For me the its top of the pile is this Japanese company, that has kicked MB off of its cocky perch delivering repair info for its products instead of MB who seem to be in constant vigil weeding out pirated users of their workshop info systems .
As I often state Toyota and Sumitomo build a quality product and MB could learn a thing or two from Toyota.
No wonder Toyota/ Lexus enjoys the highest brand loyalty in the business.
Dennis
 
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lindenengineering

Well-known member
Sometimes AND depending upon the scan tool you can "back door access" the engine if you can ascertain the engine derivative like 906/XXX .
With Autologic in our case, and suddenly caught with no apparent immediate access, our screen was full of the ECU codes similarly as you have reported .

In our case we were able to pull down each engine/ECM code references and identify the exact engine derivative, then gain access to the ECM and diagnose the issues presented.

You may have this feature on the Autel tool, & it will be a question of seeing and finding out by the Autel tool & its own navigation features
Dennis
 
I

Ivan Borisovich

Born in the DZ - From Exton PA
lindenengineering said:
Sometimes AND depending upon the scan tool you can "back door access" the engine if you can ascertain the engine derivative like 906/XXX .
With Autologic in our case, and suddenly caught with no apparent immediate access, our screen was full of the ECU codes similarly as you have reported .

In our case we were able to pull down each engine/ECM code references and identify the exact engine derivative, then gain access to the ECM and diagnose the issues presented.

You may have this feature on the Autel tool, & it will be a question of seeing and finding out by the Autel tool & its own navigation features
Dennis
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There is no back door to the ECU that a scan tool can use to gain access. You either use the OBD side or UDS side. On the USD side the ECU must be identified, automatic or manual identification can be used. What you have described is a limitation of the scan tool and not a some sort of a back door access. A back door access would be what tuners do, access the memory of the ECU with a programmer on bench..
 
L

lindenengineering

Well-known member
Here we go again, and I am abundantly aware of it as so called "tuning" as you put it !

We just call "back door access" as a way of SIMPLY describing our "in shop terminology" using ONE scan tool (Autologic this case) to gain access to the information on a particular Sprinter platform.
We have an old Autel scan tool, which we don't tend to use too often and our overall familiarity /experience with any later AUTEL TOOL product range is therefore limited.
By simply using a simple terminology for DIY usage "might" in the OP's Autel scan tool just have some similar features to gain access to the ECM which he has not explored perhaps.
Yes the Autel tool has its limitations across the board especially with MB products but strong in some other brands such as Asian models'
Have you tried and used the Autel tool ?
Do you scan other brands and platforms, or is it JUST MB SPRINTERS ?

Why do we have to have this pedantic behavior from you , its simply not helpful.
But carry on
Dennis
 
I

Ivan Borisovich

Born in the DZ - From Exton PA
lindenengineering said:
Here we go again, and I am abundantly aware of it as so called "tuning" as you put it !

We just call "back door access" as a way of SIMPLY describing our "in shop terminology" using ONE scan tool (Autologic this case) to gain access to the information on a particular Sprinter platform.
We have an old Autel scan tool, which we don't tend to use too often and our overall familiarity /experience with any later AUTEL TOOL product range is therefore limited.
By simply using a simple terminology for DIY usage "might" in the OP's Autel scan tool just have some similar features to gain access to the ECM which he has not explored perhaps.
Yes the Autel tool has its limitations across the board especially with MB products but strong in some other brands such as Asian models'
Have you tried and used the Autel tool ?
Do you scan other brands and platforms, or is it JUST MB SPRINTERS ?

Why do we have to have this pedantic behavior from you , its simply not helpful.
But carry on
Dennis
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What behavior are you talking about? I simply commented on what you wrote. Are you really that sensitive and can't tolerate someone commenting on what you wrote?
 
L

lindenengineering

Well-known member
525rider said:
Dennis, any suggestion what I should try?

Frank
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Frank
I am not too familiar with the tool you have.
Now I am assuming you can start the van and it runs.
I suggest you have a scoot about with the tool connected to the van in KOEO mode and see if you can pull a page up showing Sprinter partial Vin numbers like 906/xxxx. Spend a bit of time on it and search.
If you can do that, you can possibly pull up model /powertrain derivatives so that you can compare each derivative to the Vin number of your van.
By selecting the "correct" derivative you might gain access. It really depends upon the tool's capabilities.

Now don't be disappointed if you come up short .
Autel like many a scan tool is a pirated unit that has gained recognition here in trade circles by circumventing manufacturers protocols to avoid law suits .
They even won or fended off a huge law suit enacted by the Big Three citing their operating system being different , which it is.
Some of the trade only web sites frequently see complaining posts about Autel coverage that comes up short.
Nevertheless its not a bad tool for the money, great in ADAS programming and Asian hybrid diag.
Just a frustrating tool for a pro shop especially when it comes to updates and sudden loss of features .
See how you get on, and if you seem to have an opening " light" post it and we can maybe coach you through it on the phone .
All the best
Dennis
 
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5

525rider

Member
We tested an AP200 on my Sprinter and were getting pretty much the same results as with MS906. That's what the Autel tech said, that an update of any other of their scanner would work as it is now, in needs to be "fixed" by whoever installed it.
 
I

Ivan Borisovich

Born in the DZ - From Exton PA
525rider said:
We tested an AP200 on my Sprinter and were getting pretty much the same results as with MS906. That's what the Autel tech said, that an update of any other of their scanner would work as it is now, in needs to be "fixed" by whoever installed it.
Click to expand...
AP200 on what platform? Apple or Android? Can you also post a picture of the sticker from the back side of the ECU? There is a Bosch number at the bottom of the sticker starting with 0281... which can be used to identify exactly what ECU you have.
 
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