Victron Easy Solar?

unfortunate

2008 Freightliner 3500 170 DRW camper
As with the "turn-key setups" question, such all-in-one controller/inverter systems will be a matter of personal choice.

A lot may hinge on the capacities ... my loads don't come close to 2000 watts, but i needed *slightly* over 1000 watts for starting surges.
If the Victron incorporates SoftStart, that would be another vote in its favor.
(at least one of my inverters claimed it did/does, but i didn't see any such effect when i externally monitored the currents)

It may be the future but at the moment the future may be a bit lumpy (for many it would already be "perfect").
((well, "perfect" once you add a bunch of fuses and/or breakers))

--dick
I was looking at the paperwork for my AIMSCorp 4000W inverter and it says it'll do a 300% surge (= 12000W) for 20 seconds, which will more than cover any startup. Not sure how common that is, or if using it often is a problem.
 

Rocksnsalt

There Can Be Only ONE
I understand the redundancy benefit, but if the components are reliable enough it doesn't carry as much weight as does reducing the wiring/interconnection overhead and providing unified/integrated controls. I was surprised when I first started looking at electrical systems for my van back in 2018 - everything seemed to require piecemeal construction with no integrated multifunction units. I wanted to make sure that my battery system state of charge was being managed at a single point, not through the uncoordinated actions of multiple charging points. I ended up with a REDARC Manager 30, with solar/DC/shore power inputs and one battery state of charge monitoring and control point. Redundancy hasn't been a problem, but I do have a parallel Automatic Charge Relay that is manually switched out of the circuit that I can switch in if need be to charge the house battery directly from the vehicle.

The REDARC solution isn't everything either - it doesn't include the inverter function, nor does it include the AC distribution function, both of which are nice to have in a single unit as well for simplicity of wiring, installation, and operation.

Victron appeared to be on a path to consolidating monitoring and control through Bluetooth communications between all charging sources, which is a viable way of providing an integrated monitoring and control point and would also be of interest to me once they got the technology implemented in all of the electrical components (chargers, inverters, distribution). If they continue on that path they would meet the functional needs while maintaining the redundancy capability. It's interesting that they have also created a hardware integrated unit as well now, albeit only a partial integration of all possible functions.

What I can't figure out is if someone at Victron is actually planning how all of their stuff interoperates and will eventually achieve a fully-integrated system (whether in one hardware unit or through software/communications links between independent units), or the engineers are essentially creating one-offs with no grand vision of full integration. It looks more like the latter than the former to me so far.

Meanwhile REDARC has improved their integration by building a DC distribution and sensing add-on to the Manager 30 (which they call Red Vision Total Vehicle Management). They have a way to integrate an inverter as well, but as of now they are only building a 240 volt version for the European/Australian market and not a 120 volt version for the North American market.

I think these integrated systems, especially the ones that are either one piece at the hardware level or relatively simple to interconnect are a big boon to many DIY folks who have some respect/fear of getting things not-quite-right when they try to put it all together themselves. They also benefit those of us who can figure out how to do it all but are willing to pay a (slight) premium to do less wiring/interconnection themselves. Cabling, especially dealing with higher current cables in limited spaces, can be a real PITA. Anything that reduces the hassle, while increasing safety at the same time because it is done right in a factory with a correct design, is a big win from that point of view.
Well said.
And if people want to tinker building their own system for their exact needs and redundancy requirements they certainly still can.
Props to them for having the focus, skills, and patience.
 

Midwestdrifter

Engineer In Residence
There is definitely a market for magic boxes that just need solar, battery connections, and fuses/breakers. The big advantage is that there is a single configuration to deal with, possibly easier management as well.

The down side is that a single component failure can take out the entire system. Of course with LFP batteries that is also the case with a BMS failure (assuming one battery). Though with my DIY pack I can bypass the BMS for emergency operation.

Another downside is that you need to design around a larger box, instead of a few discrete components. Pay close attention to the manual for orientation and ventilation requirements, and leave room for wire routing.

A plus side is that there will be fewer fires, as folks won't be temped to mount all their components to a big wood board, and a lot more of the connections are pre-done, and inside a fire rated enclosure.

There aren't many van applications for this stuff that are mission/life critical. Victron got their start (and a fair bit of their business still is) from the marine sector, where a system like this would need to be doubled up in deep water applications for redundancy. As opposed to a system with separate components, where you can operate without a solar controller, inverter, etc for emergency usage if needed.

The dimensions aren't bad, but like many Victron products, the configurations options are a bit sparse. Such as no higher output 12V option. 1600VA doesn't have enough overhead to run an induction cooktop or other full power 15A device, which is a problem IMHO. At 2,000W/VA is the transition point where higher voltages should at least be considered. I would have done a 24V system were it not for the 1.2kw of charging I can get directly from our alternator, with no additional gear required. Above 3,000W/VA 24V or 48V is essentially required anyways.

All-in-one style boxes have been offered for big setups for a while. They typically have had normal off the shelf discrete components inside, and the main bus wiring, breakers, and interconnects are all pre-done or at least provisioned inside. This reduces installation time, makes it easier to meet code inspections where applicable, and makes the system a bit easier to organize.

A major issue for higher input/output systems is heat generation. At some point putting all that gear in a box requires major ventilation, which can be loud.

As mentioned my main issue with Victron gear thus far, is that many of their products are not terribly cohesive, and configuration can be a chore. Though their somewhat regular firmware updates are a very welcome feature.

In the end the DIY market is a very small slice of the pie for them, and they are targeted at professionals building systems for hire, often in the marine market, but increasingly in the land based mobile fields (almost always the mid-high end).
 
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Rocksnsalt

There Can Be Only ONE
There is definitely a market for magic boxes that just need solar, battery connections, and fuses/breakers. The big advantage is that there is a single configuration to deal with, possibly easier management as well.

The down side is that a single component failure can take out the entire system. Of course with LFP batteries that is also the case with a BMS failure (assuming one battery). Though with my DIY pack I can bypass the BMS for emergency operation.

Another downside is that you need to design around a larger box, instead of a few discrete components. Pay close attention to the manual for orientation and ventilation requirements, and leave room for wire routing.

A plus side is that there will be fewer fires, as folks won't be temped to mount all their components to a big wood board, and a lot more of the connections are pre-done, and inside a fire rated enclosure.

There aren't many van applications for this stuff that are mission/life critical. Victron got their start (and a fair bit of their business still is) from the marine sector, where a system like this would need to be doubled up in deep water applications for redundancy. As opposed to a system with separate components, where you can operate without a solar controller, inverter, etc for emergency usage if needed.

The dimensions aren't bad, but like many Victron products, the configurations options are a bit sparse. Such as no higher output 12V option. 1600VA doesn't have enough overhead to run an induction cooktop or other full power 15A device, which is a problem IMHO. At 2,000W/VA is the transition point where higher voltages should at least be considered. I would have done a 24V system were it not for the 1.2kw of charging I can get directly from our alternator, with no additional gear required. Above 3,000W/VA 24V or 48V is essentially required anyways.

All-in-one style boxes have been offered for big setups for a while. They typically have had normal off the shelf discrete components inside, and the main bus wiring, breakers, and interconnects are all pre-done or at least provisioned inside. This reduces installation time, makes it easier to meet code inspections where applicable, and makes the system a bit easier to organize.

A major issue for higher input/output systems is heat generation. At some point putting all that gear in a box requires major ventilation, which can be loud.

As mentioned my main issue with Victron gear thus far, is that many of their products are not terribly cohesive, and configuration can be a chore. Though their somewhat regular firmware updates are a very welcome feature.

In the end the DIY market is a very small slice of the pie for them, and they are targeted at professionals building systems for hire, often in the marine market, but increasingly in the land based mobile fields (almost always the mid-high end).
Some good points. I’d wager the off grid (including vans/rv’s) and grid tie diy market worldwide is significantly bigger than the africa market that was mentioned in some of the info I saw on these particular systems as the design target.
Whatever the case, there are several co’s offering now aio units, but always puny 1500 ish wattage for 12v.
Sigh.

If 3000w requires 24 or 48v aio units and batteries, I’d like to see them offered with an appropriate step down converter to 12v.
 
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Helen

Member
One of the reasons we have independent devices is for redundancy. Things fail. If everything is in one unit, and it fails, you have no power system and your trip may be ruined. If you have independent systems, you can work around it, charge with the engine rather than solar, stop at a campground with shore power, etc.

Another reason is it may not be balanced for your particular usage. Maybe you need a bigger or smaller charger / inverter, etc. If you buy individual devices, you can size each to your particular needs.

Regards,

Mark
I so totally agree with Mark above. Currently, I am bus-stopped from going anywhere due to the complexity of the Victron system/inverter not working properly. I really don't want to spend my time dealing with all the settings on this system. And since the critters are relying on the back air conditioner to work when parked....the fact that i cannot bypass the inverter and run the air con off shore power or generator really does not make me happy at all.
AND when the inverter isn't happy, it is really really hot and smokin'. Even if we get this system to working, I do not want to leave my critters in the vehicle with air conditioning with the inverter running for 4 to 5 hr.... i am not feeling it is safe. I am really looking for a way to only use the inverter when I am with the van. and a way to totally bypass the inverter for essential functions (like the air con in the summer should the inverter throw craps). Also getting assistance with the system can be a challenge at times as this falls on the place you purchased the product from. Any other van places using the victron system may not assist you if they did not do the install.
I am really struggling with the safety aspect of inverters in general.... anyone have any thoughts or suggestions here is appreciated. I know i need my 3000 watt honda inverter generator to run my 13,500 btu unit which has worked fine in the past. I run additional fans with battery packs to improve air circulation. I will have to turn off solar charging due to the heat created, and thinking that if i had an inverter running, the air con would have to work even harder to offset that heat generated.

thanks
 

Midwestdrifter

Engineer In Residence
I so totally agree with Mark above. Currently, I am bus-stopped from going anywhere due to the complexity of the Victron system/inverter not working properly. I really don't want to spend my time dealing with all the settings on this system. And since the critters are relying on the back air conditioner to work when parked....the fact that i cannot bypass the inverter and run the air con off shore power or generator really does not make me happy at all.
AND when the inverter isn't happy, it is really really hot and smokin'. Even if we get this system to working, I do not want to leave my critters in the vehicle with air conditioning with the inverter running for 4 to 5 hr.... i am not feeling it is safe. I am really looking for a way to only use the inverter when I am with the van. and a way to totally bypass the inverter for essential functions (like the air con in the summer should the inverter throw craps). Also getting assistance with the system can be a challenge at times as this falls on the place you purchased the product from. Any other van places using the victron system may not assist you if they did not do the install.
I am really struggling with the safety aspect of inverters in general.... anyone have any thoughts or suggestions here is appreciated. I know i need my 3000 watt honda inverter generator to run my 13,500 btu unit which has worked fine in the past. I run additional fans with battery packs to improve air circulation. I will have to turn off solar charging due to the heat created, and thinking that if i had an inverter running, the air con would have to work even harder to offset that heat generated.

thanks
You shouldn't be relying on an inverter and batteries to keep your animals alive. Not without some type of backup. At least if your animals are important to you (some folks are okay with the risk). I have seen RV AC systems disabled by cottonwood fluff, leaves, improperly connected cables, etc. It happens often enough, that I wouldn't trust them to maintain safe conditions without monitoring of some kind, and someone nearby that I could call to intervene if the system goes down. A few setups that I have seen which are somewhat doable, involve remote monitoring of the temperature via a cellular device. The best configurations have a way to switch over to high flow forced ventilation if the AC unit goes offline.

The best setup in my opinion is an air conditioned kennel. Using two redundant ~1000BTU DC AC units which cool the kennel directly in combination with monitoring. This allows for a reasonable battery pack to keep the kennel comfortable for 12 hours or more, and the dual units provide redundancy. Since the whole of the van isn't being cooled, you can leave the windows open, and your roof vent on high. So even if the AC system for the kennel goes down, the interior will stay much cooler than a closed up van, and provides a fair bit of buffer time for you to intervene if something goes wrong.

This also applies to using shore power as well. A breaker pops, the AC unit dies, someone trips over the cable, there is a power outage, etc. It only takes an hour for a closed up van in the sun to reach lethal temps in some conditions. A home can take 4-8 hours for temperatures to peak, and they will peak much lower than an RV. On a 100F day a RV/van in the sun can hit 130F quickly.

It also sounds like you do not have a good grasp of electronics, and how your system works in general. Victron is not in the business of helping the layman figure out their installation. That is incumbent on the vehicle builder/outfitter. Unfortunately many outfitters/upfitters provide little after sales support, and their marketing materials are less than honest.

If you want your AC on direct shore power, you just need to wire in a transfer switch, or similar relay setup, so the desired appliances are switched over to direct shore power when its connected. If you don't have the skills or knowledge to do this modification, engaging an electrician with RV or marine experience is called for.

You are welcome to start a thread describing your setup and goals, and a request for feedback/advice. There are many helpful forum members who could provide useful feedback on your options.
 
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Rocksnsalt

There Can Be Only ONE
I so totally agree with Mark above. Currently, I am bus-stopped from going anywhere due to the complexity of the Victron system/inverter not working properly. I really don't want to spend my time dealing with all the settings on this system. And since the critters are relying on the back air conditioner to work when parked....the fact that i cannot bypass the inverter and run the air con off shore power or generator really does not make me happy at all.
AND when the inverter isn't happy, it is really really hot and smokin'. Even if we get this system to working, I do not want to leave my critters in the vehicle with air conditioning with the inverter running for 4 to 5 hr.... i am not feeling it is safe. I am really looking for a way to only use the inverter when I am with the van. and a way to totally bypass the inverter for essential functions (like the air con in the summer should the inverter throw craps). Also getting assistance with the system can be a challenge at times as this falls on the place you purchased the product from. Any other van places using the victron system may not assist you if they did not do the install.
I am really struggling with the safety aspect of inverters in general.... anyone have any thoughts or suggestions here is appreciated. I know i need my 3000 watt honda inverter generator to run my 13,500 btu unit which has worked fine in the past. I run additional fans with battery packs to improve air circulation. I will have to turn off solar charging due to the heat created, and thinking that if i had an inverter running, the air con would have to work even harder to offset that heat generated.

thanks
I get what you’re saying about redundancy or workarounds as well as critters.
My K9 is always with me so temp management is important.

Though I still want simple plug and play so to speak, ideally an all in one.

12v ac systems are quite expensive but don’t need power inverting.
Hopefully someday we’ll see dual/tri voltage ac units.
My fridge runs off 12v/24v/or 120ac. No reason that can’t make it’s way to ac units since they both run on compressors. I’m surprised it’s not a thing already.
Bottom line is anything mechanical is subject to failure, and the more complex, the more items and connections can have a problem.
I’m starting to think a high idle kit and 47gallon fuel tank, with pedal control anti theft might be a good option*, though theres always a chance of a problem.
An unfortunate reality.

*Not the setup for camping though.
 
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autostaretx

Erratic Member
@Helen: Another approach (instead of wiring in a fancy transfer switch) is to break the connection between your van's power and the air conditioner by putting a PLUG on the AC, and a mating socket (powered by the van) to plug it into.
When the inverter is an issue, you just pull that plug from its socket and run an extension cord from the AC to a power source you can trust.
As @Midwestdrifter wrote, even that can fail when someone disconnects it (accidentally or intentionally), but at least it's "flexible".
The extension cord could go into your separate generator, or a rental.

Inverters DO run warm ... my 2000 watt inverter, if operated at full load, would be dumping 300 watts (five 60 watt light bulbs' worth of heat) when running. That's the inverter's 85% efficiency (2000 * 15% = 300) showing up. What you're (justifiably) fearing as heat may, indeed, be "normal" ...
(but the smoke isn't)

Additional safety tricks would be air inlets in the floor (where they can access the shaded air under the van) and roof fans exhausting the hot air can help.

--dick
 

Helen

Member
You shouldn't be relying on an inverter and batteries to keep your animals alive. Not without some type of backup. At least if your animals are important to you (some folks are okay with the risk). I have seen RV AC systems disabled by cottonwood fluff, leaves, improperly connected cables, etc. It happens often enough, that I wouldn't trust them to maintain safe conditions without monitoring of some kind, and someone nearby that I could call to intervene if the system goes down. A few setups that I have seen which are somewhat doable, involve remote monitoring of the temperature via a cellular device. The best configurations have a way to switch over to high flow forced ventilation if the AC unit goes offline.

The best setup in my opinion is an air conditioned kennel. Using two redundant ~1000BTU DC AC units which cool the kennel directly in combination with monitoring. This allows for a reasonable battery pack to keep the kennel comfortable for 12 hours or more, and the dual units provide redundancy. Since the whole of the van isn't being cooled, you can leave the windows open, and your roof vent on high. So even if the AC system for the kennel goes down, the interior will stay much cooler than a closed up van, and provides a fair bit of buffer time for you to intervene if something goes wrong.

This also applies to using shore power as well. A breaker pops, the AC unit dies, someone trips over the cable, there is a power outage, etc. It only takes an hour for a closed up van in the sun to reach lethal temps in some conditions. A home can take 4-8 hours for temperatures to peak, and they will peak much lower than an RV. On a 100F day a RV/van in the sun can hit 130F quickly.

It also sounds like you do not have a good grasp of electronics, and how your system works in general. Victron is not in the business of helping the layman figure out their installation. That is incumbent on the vehicle builder/outfitter. Unfortunately many outfitters/upfitters provide little after sales support, and their marketing materials are less than honest.

If you want your AC on direct shore power, you just need to wire in a transfer switch, or similar relay setup, so the desired appliances are switched over to direct shore power when its connected. If you don't have the skills or knowledge to do this modification, engaging an electrician with RV or marine experience is called for.

You are welcome to start a thread describing your setup and goals, and a request for feedback/advice. There are many helpful forum members who could provide useful feedback on your options.
thank you for your thoughts. i do have the van who have professional electricians, so hopefully will find out best solutions. my discomfort as the end user is in relying on the inverter with auto-ats to run the air conditioner. it is possible that the shore power & generator power setups need modification in some fashion thru that victron inverter. My ideal set up is that the air conditioner would work off generator or shore power
primarily, then switch to the batteries for at least an hour or so as a backup plan.

Did you really mean 1000 BTU units above???

I do as you say above if on shore power, make sure somebody is aware and can access, but often that is a luxury. more common that i run the gen for them, usually 4 hr time frame when boating, 2hr when biking...then run ryobi battery pak operated fans inside. Leaving them in a kennel would likely be the safest option, but they so enjoying camping, hiking and swimming.
--i much prefer relying on the vent fan, with extra fans inside and is what i use in fall and spring, sometimes winter months....the summer is a real challenge. camping in the mountains when we can, but the rivers tend to be in the valleys and hotter.

You are correct! i am not pretending in the least...i know what has worked in the past, but always looking for input on making it better/safer.
thanks again for your thoughts on this!
 

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