Here goes (again)! My build thread to sleep a family of 9… this time in a 2022 170” 4x4 *extended*

[drodio]

Over the past year, I’ve been posting my progress building out “Vader,” a 2020 170” 4x4 Crew to sleep a family of 9.

I just sold that van and I’m starting fresh… with a new 2022 Sprinter 170” 4x4… extended.

In these first posts I’ll share all the lessons I learned from building out Vader, what I intend to do the same, and what I intend to try doing differently.

Finding the van:

As many of you know, it’s nearly impossible to find a van that has all the features you want at a reasonable price these days. In my case, I was looking exclusively at 170 extended vans nationwide, anywhere between 2019 - 2022. My power search tool was http://SearchTempest.com, which will search Craigslist nationwide. Pro-tip: you can use the “pipe” feature in the search (this | ), which means “or”. So for example, in the SearchTempest search, I would run searches for “2019|2020|2021|2022 Sprinter 4x4 ext|extended” and related terms.

I also emailed every custom van builder I could find an email address for and asked them if they knew anyone selling an extended van. It was actually Korey from https://www.cacampervan.com/ that turned me on to sites like http://vanlifetrader.com and https://thevancamper.com/ — but it was actually https://www.commercialtrucktrader.com/4x4-Mercedes-Benz-Sprinter/trucks-for-sale?keyword=Ext&make=MERCEDES-BENZ|748455714&model=SPRINTER|764867656&driveTrain=4x4 that he pointed me to that unlocked the “magic inventory” of nationwide extended 4x4s that I was otherwise unable to find. So, thanks Korey! (Note: In the search above, you can see I have “keyword=Ext” in the URL. You can play around w/ that keyword to look for “extended” instead of “ext” or make it “170” or whatever other keywords you’re looking for to really dial things in.

The van I found has some unicorn features, including the exterior lighting package with LED headlights, 360 camera (hard to find on the extended vans; impossible to find on the duallys), power-assist sliding door close, tow package, distronic, electric/heated seats, etc. The only thing it doesn’t have is the 10.25” screen; I’ll have to settle for the 7” — although when I realized that CarPlay shows in a 7” configuration anyway, I wasn’t as bummed about that.

“Good, Fast, Cheap… Pick 2”

So I found a great van, fast. But it wasn’t cheap. As many of you have mentioned, dealers are asking $15k above MSRP, and this one was no exception. I was able to negotiate them down a bit from that markup, but it was still a painful “above list price” scenario, which I’ve never paid before. Add to that the fact that Mercedes just announced the 2023s yesterday, and that gas prices are skyrocketing. Ugh. But I need a van now, and this one checks more boxes than any other van out there, so I bit the bullet and paid above list.

In my next post, I’ll share what I’m planning on doing differently this time around!

 

[TransitVansit]

Most excellent! Going smart floor with AdWag again?

 

[drodio]

Even More Space:

Vader was my 3rd Sprinter. I started with a 2015 144” RWD passenger low roof, which the kids named Palomitas. We had some great adventures in that van, and got suck often enough that I quickly realized I wanted to be able to a) have 4x4 and b) stand up inside.

So we upgraded to a 2018 144” 4x4 passenger high roof, which the kids named Gato Negro. That van was great — we did a 6k summer road trip around the US in it. But we needed more space.

So… I debated a 170 vs. 170 extended. But coming from a 144, I thought the extended was just too big. So I went for the 2020 170 4x4 crew which I built out in the thread above — despite so many people saying online who bought the extended that they were happy to have the extra space.

And then I realized something: With the 170, in order to fit into a regular parking space, I basically always had to back into the space. And parking was rarely if ever an issue. And an extended van has the same 170 wheelbase; it’s just 15” longer in the back overhang. There were so many times when I realized that having an extended van wouldn’t present an additional parking issue, since I was already backing into spaces. Parking was just never a problem in the 170 (I can’t think of a single time I couldn’t find a spot), and while it might be a bit more challenging in the extended (I’ll let you know once I pick it up this weekend!) I don’t think it’ll be a big issue. So why not have the extra space, especially with such a big family?

I was also worried about the departure angle overhang on the back. I expect that definitely will be an issue. That overhang is ridiculous. But as I wrote on my personal blog post at https://drodio.com/finding-dispersed-campsites/ , the majority of the “off-roading” I did in the 170 was fire roads and snow in Tahoe. So while I’m more concerned about the overhang in 4x4 scenarios, I’m hoping it won’t be a big issue, and I’m very sure that it’ll rarely surface as a huge issue; I just don’t take the van off-road enough. The beauty of 4x4 in California is going just a bit further than everyone with the Class A/B/C motor homes can go. You don’t need to go very far down the fire road to open up a ton of dispersed camping in CA that the 2WD campers never go near.

Being an adventure dad:

One huge learning I can say for sure is how incredible it is to take young kids out camping into the dispersed wilderness in CA in a Sprinter. We’ve made so many incredible memories, and my kids already talk with pride about how they helped build out Vader. If you’re reading this and you’re on the fence about getting a van… do it. Especially if you have young kids. It’s a game changer for them to experience nature in a self sufficient way, while you as a parent still get the “glamming” benefits of having your home with you. Being able to make a great cup of coffee in the morning, or grab a chilled beer from the fridge in the evening while the kids are off exploring is a special kind of magical.

Attaching some pics of the first three vans described above.

 

[drodio]

What I’m planning on doing again:

There are some things I did in Vader which were just perfect. Here’s a list in descending order of the things I’m planning on keeping the same:

1. The Espar heater. I can’t believe I waited until my 3rd van to install a heater. It’s a total game-changer. Having a heater makes the van comfortable in extreme conditions like Tahoe in the winter… but also milder conditions like 50 degree nights in the Sierras in the summer. It just turns the van from a 1 season to a 4 season comfort vehicle.

2. The SmartFloor. Aah that floor! So good. And so damn expensive. But if you want to have a modular build out, like I do, it’s basically a requirement, and I absolutely loved it. The floor becomes the foundation for a “lego” style build; everything is removable, modifiable, and customizable, including the seat and table layout. I’d love to hear where any of you got your SmartFloor installed, and what you paid! I have no idea what’s the market price for the floor install these days.

3. The Inergy Flex 1500. This thing really performed. I wish there was a 50 amp Anderson PowerPole style connector, so I didn’t have to use cigarette outlets to get 20 amps out of the Inergy and into the van appliances, but that was a minor inconvenience. The portability, reliability and smarts of the system is unmatched. Having a solar controller, regulated 13.4v out, and 120v inverter in one small package really is magical. There were a number of times I would pull the power station out of the van and set it on the table to power laptops and other gear in the wilderness. It was great. (Attaching some pics of the bungee cord S carabiner system I jalopied up to keep the 12v sockets in place).

Those are the top three “must have” items. There are also a number of other items I was happy to have gone with, but I’m not as religious about; i.e., there may be other similar versions / other vendors that are just as good:

- The AlpiCool 55 quart fridge fits exactly between the front driver and passenger seat (although we put it on sliders in the back since I installed swivel seats), and performed flawlessly. It’s about 1/3 the price of a Dometic or ARB fridge, and it never failed us. Very happy with it.

- The MOAB bed is fantastic. And also damn pricey. I’d love to know if anyone has a cheaper high-quality option to recommend.

- The Wrappon Green dry flush toilet is great… and the sealed bags it creates had a tendency to leak. A buddy told me his does too; it might be a design issue. I ended up putting a plastic pan under ours, and it was fine. Not awesome, but still better than carrying around a porta potty with waste water.

- I custom fabricated a slide out using 500lb 60” rails. SO GOOD! Being able to easily access things under the bed was a game-changer.

- The Aluminess component roof rack was great. Also more pricey than it feels like it should be. Really liked the front LED light bar and low profile.

- The MaxxAir 7500 fan was great. Really like the thermostat. I bought a pair of aluminum screened window vents that I’d install in the van when it was sitting so there’d be airflow, and then just keep the Inergy Flex on 100% of the time to power the fan; the fan would turn on automatically when the van got hot inside. Worked great.

- The VanWife headliner shelf above the driver and passenger seat was great, and has an integrated curtain rod

- The Terra Wagen Aero hood spoiler was a relatively inexpensive way to protect the front lip of the hood; I’ve seen some Sprinters really start to chip the paint there.

- The Mule bags were great (and once again, pricey)

- Having the dual 20 gallon RB Component water tanks above wheel wells worked out great, and I loved having 40 gallons of water for cooking, showering, and (unexpectedly) for the kids to play with — they’d take the 100’ hose and create little water park areas in the dirt for their Hotwheels cars, which would occupy them for hours.

- The Amp Research folding steps were great.

- The SumoSprings in the back were great, and really kept the van from swaying. I didn’t post about these in my last build thread, so I’ve attached a before & after pic here comparing them to the stock bump stops. I’ll likely try installing them in the front as well on the new build.

- And a special shout-out to Susan of Ripplewear. She makes insulated magnetic black-out covers for the windows, and they work great. (Although I wish they were maybe 1” bigger all around). She employs people in disadvantaged areas and I’m happy to support her; the products are very high quality.

Also, since I was coming from a 2018 van before Vader, I didn’t fully appreciate how good the Distronic active cruise control system would be. Not all vans have this option, and it’s really worth getting, especially if you’re doing long road trips. I also have a similar system in my Honda Odyssey, but the one in the Sprinter is better because it works in stop & go traffic, whereas the Honda system cuts off below 15mph. Highly recommend this option!

In my next post I’ll share what I’d do differently!

 

[drodio]

What I’d do differently: Air Conditioning

So many learnings! Here’s what’s at the top of my list: I would install rear AC. My first two Sprinters were passenger versions with factory AC, and both leaked. So I wasn’t super pumped about putting another big hole the roof in Vader. I opted to try to really insulate the van well; stuffing it with Havelock wool in every available crevice, and then hope that the factory AC would be powerful enough. And mostly, it was. In California it’s a non issue (unless you’re in Death Valley or another really hot area above 100 degrees). But our family has a habit of doing really long summer road trips — last summer we did an 8.6k mile road trip through the Southest in the middle of summer, and man — from Texas to Florida at 110+ degrees with high humidity is no fun for weeks on end with young kids and without rear AC.

I don’t know a ton about 12v AC units; I’d love to get pro-tips from anyone who’s more fully researched them. The unit I was thinking about buying was the 12V Nomadic unit, but it’s pricey at $4k. (Here’s a great blog post about 12v vs 120v AC units). Another issue with that unit is that it draws 75 amps. I currently have three 100ah batteries attached to my Inergy system so that would only last 4 hours at best at 100% load; likely more like 3 hours consider the other things the Ingergy would also have to power.

I watched this really great video from Nomadic cooling and they actually recommended the Dometic RTX 2000. And this is an install video for the same unit, where it was pulling between 100w to 400w in actual usage. The unit pulls between 10a to 58a, so the max would be just under 700w peak draw.

Let’s assume 500W continuous draw on a hot day. I have an expandable Inergy system that currently has 300ah, which means i have 3,600 total watts available. My current setup could run the AC for 7 hours at 500 watts. (LMK if anyone disagrees w/ my math!) That seems pretty reasonable, and maybe I add an extra 1 or 2 100ah batteries for good measure.

I think the RTX 2000 is about 6,800 BTUs. I’d love to know if that’s enough to cool a 170 extended van on a hot day. In this post, @Midwestdrifter said 5k BTUs will keep his van comfortable in most conditions.

I’m also curious to know if anyone’s tried the Cruise N Comfort units that don’t require a hole in the roof. I think there’d be enough space to put the condenser under the van somewhere. My guess is that those use way too many amps to be realistic but I’d love to hear from anyone w/ experience.

 

[drodio]

Everything else I’d do differently:

The AC was the big one — everything else feels like an optimization. Here’s what’s top of mind:

- I’d get a 50 gallon fuel tank. There were so many times I was exiting or entering California where gas was $1 or more cheaper per gallon on the other side of the state line, and I wished I could fill up on the cheaper fuel. I’d love to know of any recommendations anyone has for a good high quality tank - the bigger, the better. (Also I have no idea if a larger tank messes w/ the onboard computer; LMK if anyone has any experience w/ that)

- I insulated the van with Havelock wool. It seemed to work well. But: I’d find wisps of wool here & there on a regular basis. That’s probably because I didn’t completely close off some of the insulated areas; if you did, you likely wouldn’t have this problem. I’ll probably just do Thinsulate this time around. No huge opinions here so I’d love to hear from those who do have opinions. @asimba2 you recommended this link https://ourkaravan.com/insulation/ in a post, which has some intriguing ideas (like ceramic spray insulation.)

- I ordered a pricey DragonFly Tarp, which I loved. It’s got a huge surface area and is very configurable based on where the sun is. But it takes maybe 10 minutes to set up, and there were many times that I longed for the simplicity and ease of an electric awning, which I would’ve put out more often. I’m conflicted on this one; I’ll probably try the awning approach for this van. LMK if anyone’s got a favorite brand.

- I covered the SmartFloor with Lonseal commercial grade flooring, which I had hoped would be bulletproof. It was OK, but I had to take much more care of it than I expected to. Basically, if I wasn’t careful, I could scratch the floor by pulling a heavy object over it. That was unexpected. I’m definitely on the lookout for some other flooring material that’s more bulletproof. Anyone have suggestions?

- I only installed one MaxxFan. With this build, I’m going to go for both an input and output air source, because the MaxxFan would complain if I didn’t keep the windows cracked. Adding an AC unit would solve this issue; I’m thinking maybe the Dometic above the table sitting area + a MaxxFan in the back.

- I didn’t get the electronic parking brake. It’s such a small thing but it was really a pain to have to hunt for the manual parking brake with all the other stuff I had in the center console. This new van has the electronic brake.

- I used VHB tape to install my solar panels — and then one flew off in the high wind conditions of I-10 between CA & AZ. After that I riveted them down, and I’ll definitely do that again next time!

- I’ll probably get the same Aluminess roof rack again, since I love having the low profile front LED light bar, but I’d love to know if anyone’s got a good cheaper alternative to achieve the same effect. I’d thought that maybe the solid aluminum component roof rack would keep the van’s roof cooler, but I don’t think it really mattered.

- I wish I’d installed rear stereo speakers before I did the buildout. The kids were always asking for music.

- @TransitVansit I didn’t go with the full interior AdvWagon kit; just got the Moab bed & mule bags from them. I built out my own interior using a cloth hook & loop Velcro fabric, which I’d hoped would let me attach things to the walls. It worked out OK but the material wasn’t as durable as I’d expected it to be. If I were to try that again, I’d have the harder “hook” side be the walls vs the softer “loop” side. But I don’t know anyone that sells the “hook” side as fabric rolls. LMK if anyone does!

Here are a few pics of the DragonFly Tarp from my last build:

 

[rinkratrob]

Thanks for the details, especially on the awning (still deciding here). - Rob

 

[Midwestdrifter]

The only way to know for sure what will cool your van is to test. Buy a window unit, temp install it, and see if it works.

 

[vanski]

Congrats on the sale and new purchase! Curious as to why you didn’t get a 3500 considering the head count, seats, build, and associated gear. Fully loaded for a trip with water and especially a full 50+ gallon fuel tank I’d imagine you’re going to go over the GVWR of the vehicle.. I guess safety risk could be mitigated by leaf packs Agile Offroad or Van Compass $ell$.

I’ve spent a lot of time looking into various AC solutions and settled on a traditional 120v mini split with heat pump for the below reasons:

- 1/4 the cost of rv-specific 12v AC units.
- having the ability to cool and heat
- easier to replace entire unit or parts if something does fail
- normal hvac trade folks can work on it if needed
- they work great!

I had a mini split mounted on my last build as well and it’s still running strong. That one was even mounted under the truck and held up to lots of salted snow driving.

you do need an inverter capable of running one plus whatever else you may need to run. I was a bit boxed in to using a 2k/4k watt inverter due to where it needed to be mounted. It works great unless I need to use the split and something like a water boiler or induction cook top. 3k/6k watt inverter would have been better. The wiring itself needs to be done properly as well…..

I highly recommend arctic tern windows for the rear… not needing all the window covers is really nice and a space saver.

 

[RVBarry]

- I only installed one MaxxFan. With this build, I’m going to go for both an input and output air source, because the MaxxFan would complain if I didn’t keep the windows cracked. Adding an AC unit would solve this issue; I’m thinking maybe the Dometic above the table sitting area + a MaxxFan in the back

Hi, RV A/C's don't vent, so you'd still have the same issue with the fan.

Re powering the A/C, I don't know if your portable power system can run an A/C, but the other big question is how are you going to keep it charged?

I agree with the comments about weight; the Ext has less cargo capacity.
Especially be careful about adding much weight behind the rear wheels.

There's recent long thread here about a 47-gallon fuel tank, but make sure you're not overweight first.

47 Gallon fuel tank

I am looking into a 47 gallon aftermarket fuel tank from Sbfilters.com for my 2020 4WD 144 High roof van. Probably about $2K installed. The 24 gallon stock tank doesn't cut it. Anyone out there run a larger fuel tank?

sprinter-source.com

Springs and shocks are best ordered after you can weigh your final setup, but Sumos are probably more straightforward.

 

[Michlb]

We decided to go for a CruiseNComfort install. A couple of factors:

- Reputation: They've been in the market for quite some time, and I talked to Chris, the owner, a few times. In the end it was a gut feel decision.

- Competitors: I considered Dometic and Nomadic Cooling as the only 12V solutions. Before, I think Dometic had only a smaller unit available. I therefore considered the Nomadic-built A/C unit, and just didn't find as many references available. I also wasn't sure how they build the units (e.g. is it OEM from an unknown manufacturer? is it standard component but built by Nomadic?), where Chris is pretty transparent how his stuff is built. So, I decided against the smaller Dometic unit and also ruled out Nomadic-built system. Now that there is a Dometic RTX 2000 with supposed 6000 BTU/h capacity, I may have taken a look again, given the excellent reputation of Dometic

- Space: We have a 170 4x4. We don't have kids but 4 dogs. That puts some creative space-finding requirements on the van. Just like you, we had a 144 (not 4x4 but RWD)before, and it was a disaster both space-wise as well as I just hated the RWD in winter. We looked briefly at the Extended, but then thought that the 170 4x4 was the right size. So far, it works for us. If we ever want to install a shower, we would need to go for Extended as well. But between 2 dog crates for medium sized dogs, 1 dog crate for an Alaskan Malamute girl and 1 dog who sits on the bench we just didn't have many options. We also have a gorgeous ceiling that looks a bit like a sailboat (https://ruhneracing.com/portfolio-item/beluga/) and we didn't want to put an ugly A/C control panel up there. With CruiseNComfort, you have plenty of options. The installer we ended up working with us recommended the VES 12-L Deluxe which basically separates compressor, evaporators and condenser unit. It is a bitch to install, but it provides maximum flexibility. We were also able to place the evaporator close to the dog crates, thus producing maximum cold air where it is needed most.

So far, the unit works well. We have 600 Ah batteries in the van. The unit when run at maximum draws a good 60-70 Amps. The compressor is under the back in the bed, enclosed in a compartment, thus also putting the loudest component the farthest away from us and the dogs. The evaporator is enclosed in wooden cabinet. You see it in the pictures below.

Could the Dometic RTX 2000 have done the job? Possibly. I just wanted the maximum possible power for dog comforts. It just seemed logical to me that when you have a condenser the size of the VES unit under the van, and a dedicated evaporator, the efficiency should be high. So far, the condenser under the van has not been a problem, at least not in winter. I drove through the CA December storm without an problems. CnC now provides a very solid pre-built package for van installs.

Let me know if you have any questions. We are in Saratoga, so you are welcome to swing by at some point to take a look. We have run into each other professionally, by the way.

Best,
Michael

 

[drodio]

@vanski and @RVBarry Yep totally hear you on the weight.

Went with a 2500 for a few reasons:

• Was able to get the 360 degree camera. This is an important bit of functionality for my wife when she drives. The ext 3500s don’t offer it — at least none of the ones I found.
• Unsure if there are 3500s w/ SRW; maybe — but all the 3500s I found were XD Duallys. Great payloads, but I didn’t want a dually. Less space inside; more rolling resistance, less friendly offroad.
• Found a 2500 that had almost all the features I wanted; esp the LED headlights, which I loved on my last 170 and are nearly impossible to find these days due to chip shortage. (I’ve heard the non-LED lights leave much to be desired at night but haven’t tried them myself. The auto high beam feature on the ext lighting package is a nice-to-have as well).

I was pleasantly surprised by the 170 build. I was very concerned about the weight but it never turned out to be an issue. Having said that, I never got around to *actually weighing* the rig, so it could have been an issue and I just didn’t realize it, but the handling was always fine; the rig didn’t seem to be complaining in any way (no sagging in the rear for example).

The payload penalty for the Extended vs. regular 170 isn’t too bad: 3,274 vs 3,373 lbs, and is actually up a bit vs. the Crew I had before at 2,954 lbs, although of course I took out the stock bench seat, etc.

Since I go for a 100% modular approach (nothing is built-in) I can swap stuff in & out as needed. Kinda like a big lego set. No built-in kitchen, no built-in batteries, etc.

It also helps that we have small people in our household, besides me. The nine of us clock in combined at under 900lbs.

I figure I’m something in the range of:

• 9 humans (max; often less): 880 lbs (but growing! Let’s call it 1000 lbs to account for a few years of growth in the kids)
• 40 gallons of water: 332 lbs @ 8.3 lbs ea
• 22 extra gallons of fuel: 156 lbs @ 7.1 lbs ea
• What does a Moab bed weight? I’m guessing 150 lbs
• SmartFloor: I’m guessing 200 lbs; probably less
• 9 AMF Bruns M1 seats: 360 lbs @ 40 lbs ea
• Insulation & panels: What does Thinsulate weigh in a van install? Don’t know since I used wool last time but let’s say 100 lbs for all of that
• Fridge: 28 lbs
• Inergy system 29 lbs with one battery; Add 3 more batteries @ 16 lbs each = 77 lbs (provides 400 amp hours)
• All my tools: 200 lbs
• Custom Aluminum fabricated water cages and lower bed frame: 80 lbs
• Aluminess component roof rack: Guessing something around 300 lbs

With all the big items, I come in at 2,983 lbs. That leaves me 291 lbs for all the other stuff — Mule bags, mattresses, blankets, things we pack for trips, etc. etc.

My guess is with the full family, full tank and full water tanks, I’d be right around the limit. Although usually I don’t have the full family with me.

 

[drodio]

@Michlb that ceiling is epic indeed. Thanks for sharing the build page. PMd you about meeting up! It’d actually be great to meet up at Winston’s “Cars & Coffee” on April 9th or May 7th: https://www.siliconvalleymotorclub.com/calendar — we’ve crashed the event before!

 

[drodio]

PS @vanski you still doing Espar installs?! Def would love to bring my van by for you to put one into this one. The heater was so legit!! LMK which model you recommend these days and I’ll order it.

 

[vanski]

PS @vanski you still doing Espar installs?! Def would love to bring my van by for you to put one into this one. The heater was so legit!! LMK which model you recommend these days and I’ll order it.

Feel free to reach out..

 

[Allcity510]

Following! Can't wait to see this, as I have a 2020 170 ext 4x4. Outside is 99.9% done, inside has the bare essentials. Right now I'm in the middle of installing the Rixen System.

 

[drodio]

@Allcity510 nice! Could you share some pics and details of the work you’ve done?

 

[SION1771]

I followed your build closely and copied a lot (for our Transit). A few things I'd opine on:

Insulation: we did Thinsulate based on FarOutRide's evaluation. Very happy with it. Well, technically it's what came with the AdWag kit, but I would've done something else if I didn't think it was a good option. The fact that AdWag included it finalized our decision.

SmartFloor w/ Lonseal: no issues so far. No kids and nothing sliding across it, so maybe that's our luck. We also got a tiger stripe pattern that will help hide scratches, but we've got no gouges.

MaxxAir: We have just one, and a boat hatch at the other side. One MaxxAir has enough power to circulate and we liked the idea of having a hatch we could pop out of if we wanted to get to the roof. And it's 'automatic' when the MaxxAir switches directions; there's no reversing the other one or making sure the remote is pointed at the correct unit to avoid double push/pull from both. You can lock the hatch in a slightly open position while driving or even parked, and when locked it can't be opened from the outside (well... easily opened, but it's good enough for boat security). And it lets in a lot more light. Hein made a custom adapter for a very reasonable price.

Wrappon Green: ours leaks too. Only when travelling, for some odd reason. I used it in the house for a ton of testing and didn't get it to leak once! Put it in the van in the driveway and tested it more there - no leaks (wasn't sure if it was a voltage thing or something). We also just ended up putting an aluminum baking sheet under it and clean it most times but recycle it every so often. An installer I took our van to for other upgrades said they had the same issue too, and won't install them anymore because they can't stand behind the product. We're fine with that vs. the alternatives, but it's too bad it's such a common issue. Ours just leaks a little out of the seal, and only about 1/3 of the time. Sometimes just a few drops, but one time the bag broke open and coagulated pee went all over the place. :'-( That's when we got the baking sheet. But throwing out just the waste in a little baggie is a far better option than dealing with the 'compost' that ends up in the landfill but in far greater volumes because of all the other stuff it's mixed with. And there's no smell between uses or maintaining the waste of others. You tinkle, you toss.

Also, here's link to a DIY Wrappon connector for a few bucks vs. the $100 they charge for an OEM cord.
https://sprinter-source.com/forums/index.php?threads/89458/page-11#post-1044587

I'm excited to see what you come up with this round!

- I insulated the van with Havelock wool. It seemed to work well. But: I’d find wisps of wool here & there on a regular basis. That’s probably because I didn’t completely close off some of the insulated areas; if you did, you likely wouldn’t have this problem. I’ll probably just do Thinsulate this time around. No huge opinions here so I’d love to hear from those who do have opinions. @asimba2 you recommended this link https://ourkaravan.com/insulation/ in a post, which has some intriguing ideas (like ceramic spray insulation.)

- I covered the SmartFloor with Lonseal commercial grade flooring, which I had hoped would be bulletproof. It was OK, but I had to take much more care of it than I expected to. Basically, if I wasn’t careful, I could scratch the floor by pulling a heavy object over it. That was unexpected. I’m definitely on the lookout for some other flooring material that’s more bulletproof. Anyone have suggestions?

- I only installed one MaxxFan. With this build, I’m going to go for both an input and output air source, because the MaxxFan would complain if I didn’t keep the windows cracked. Adding an AC unit would solve this issue; I’m thinking maybe the Dometic above the table sitting area + a MaxxFan in the back.

 

[SION1771]

Oh, and in testing the Wrappon, we would put water in it after it cycled to see if we could get a leak ahead of time. The water would stay in the bag for hundreds of miles and a day or two with no leaks. But then put some pee and coagulant in there and a tiny leak would somehow appear. So confused.

 

[Allcity510]

@Allcity510 nice! Could you share some pics and details of the work you’ve done?

like I said, outside is pretty much close to being finished. Lol Still working on the interior. Currently we have a bed, toilet, refrigerator and a Bluetti.