$6000 worth of mechanical issues - Heartbroken

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Thanasis

Active member
The OP made clear that he was not interested in being reminded that what he had done was wrong etc. , but in how to proceed from here. I think he got some good advice from members.
BTW, what I suggest to folks who tell me that they are thinking of getting a Sprinter, is to first join this group to poke around , and follow Dennis :)
 
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lindenengineering

Well-known member
Well let's face it who wants to be told you screwed up, but it needs to be stated.
All too often we see a van that is costing more than anticipated to maintain .
Its then followed by neglect and quote :- I am not fixing that because I am going to sell it !

Then several months later it turns up again with new owner for post purchase inspection (reminder POST NOT Pre-purchase inspection ) and fix these problems. The prompter is often a CEL and a no E tests pass being the real impediment.

Shop records before even touching it are there recorded in B & W its just a cursory overlook and all too often simply re-print the original fault /repair estimate snag sheet .
This little activity can repeat itself several times over , before the last buying sucker either fixes it at great cost, or it simply goes away.

Its akin really, to meeting an ex wife with a different partner every few years, I kid you not. :love:
Dennis
 

Docpaulo

Well-known member
Well let's face it who wants to be told you screwed up, but it needs to be stated.
All too often we see a van that is costing more than anticipated to maintain .
Its then followed by neglect and quote :- I am not fixing that because I am going to sell it !

Then several months later it turns up again with new owner for post purchase inspection (reminder POST NOT Pre-purchase inspection ) and fix these problems. The prompter is often a CEL and a no E tests pass being the real impediment.

Shop records before even touching it are there recorded in B & W its just a cursory overlook and all too often simply re-print the original fault /repair estimate snag sheet .
This little activity can repeat itself several times over , before the last buying sucker either fixes it at great cost, or it simply goes away.

Its akin really, to meeting an ex wife with a different partner every few years, I kid you not. :love:
Dennis
Yup.. dunno why he posted it if he didn't want to hear the predictable replies...
 

ENMeyer

Well-known member
I know you said you trust the shop, but IMO, there's a red flag or two in your comments....

New EGR cooler? Aren't they typically cleaned and not replaced? How would they know it needs replacement?
New brake calipers? Pads/rotors, maybe, but calipers? Sounds suspicious to me.

You for sure need a 2nd opinion, and it might be tough to hear, but maybe your shop isn't as trustworthy as you think.
 

lindenengineering

Well-known member
Questions #1
EGR cooler cleaning , how long to that job SUCCESSFULLY.
When does cleaning it, & labor cost surpass replacing it?

Calipers --Possibly in about 20% of brake repairs, who knows?

Finally a statement !
Its begs the same questions you have posed going the doctor/ dentist for some sort of treatment!
Knowing that this, the US Med AMA profession has worldwide reputation amongst the world Med community for over prescription of expensive drugs that will kill you by over prescription . Since all US doctors bear in mind get a % age commission from the drug companies for product promotions & patient consumption.
In the same vein, maybe your Doctor isn't as trustworthy as you think.
Dennis
 

Docpaulo

Well-known member
Since all US doctors bear in mind get a % age commission from the drug companies for product promotions & patient consumption.
In the same vein, maybe your Doctor isn't as trustworthy as you think.
Dennis
Sorry, i respect you as a mechanic guru, but making flat out false statements about doctors should be beneath you... I'm a doctor and i can assure you this is not true of all doctors including me... some maybe.. but definitely not all...
 

ENMeyer

Well-known member
Questions #1
EGR cooler cleaning , how long to that job SUCCESSFULLY.
When does cleaning it, & labor cost surpass replacing it?

Calipers --Possibly in about 20% of brake repairs, who knows?

Finally a statement !
Its begs the same questions you have posed going the doctor/ dentist for some sort of treatment!
Knowing that this, the US Med AMA profession has worldwide reputation amongst the world Med community for over prescription of expensive drugs that will kill you by over prescription . Since all US doctors bear in mind get a % age commission from the drug companies for product promotions & patient consumption.
In the same vein, maybe your Doctor isn't as trustworthy as you think.
Dennis
Points taken. Now, I do have a great chemical cleaner for EGRs, but you are right - labor vs. replacement.... Cost matters.

I've just never heard of replacing calipers. I had a 310,000 mile BMW that saw about 10 track days with original calipers. Maybe a van is different.

I have that same feeling at the dentist... "do you want a fluoride flush treatment"? Me.... "WTF is that?" :oops:
 

lindenengineering

Well-known member
Well I have a daughter who is a pediatric surgeon and board certified .
I get the privilege's to pry open the AMA curtain of US med activities and individual doctors' records, training, certification etc who I might consult .
Just as in the auto repair business standard vary enormously, except that US med activities are shrouded in a cloak of respectability and preordained trust, which regrettably not always the case in the effort to drive profits in the delivery of care.
But you know that anyway and it simply reinforces a past schoolboy chum quotation who was a pathologist (now retired) Lancet contributor at the NHS regional healthcare in the UK .
Quote :- Watch out for those bloody careless American doctors over there!~ They will kill you with over prescription of expensive drugs .
Dennis
 
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Docpaulo

Well-known member
Well I have a daughter who is a pediatric surgeon and board certified .
I get the privilege's to pry open the AMA curtain of US med activities and individual doctors' records, training, certification etc who I might consult .
Just as in the auto repair business standard vary enormously, except that US med activities are shrouded in a cloak of respectability and preordained trust, which regrettably not always the case in the effort to drive profits in the delivery of care.
But you know that anyway and it simply reinforces a past schoolboy chum quotation who was a pathologist (now retired) Lancet contributor at the NHS regional healthcare in the UK .
Quote :- Watch out for those bloody careless American doctors over there!~ They will kill you with over prescription of expensive drugs .
Dennis
Having a family member who is a surgeon doesn't make you a medical expert... just like i can't become a heli expert because my cousin is a helicopter mechanic...

Your statement is no different than me saying all mechanics are crooks including you because i find that some mechanics are crooks...

We can agree that's probably not true... but then why would you say the same of another profession you know nothing about

For the record I'm not an AMA member.. i don't condone many of their stands ... and since you don't know... only 15% of practicing doctors are AMA members... hardly... all US doctors...

Are you really going to defend your false accusations of all US doctors? A "sorry I overstated" would have been enough...
 

lindenengineering

Well-known member
Having a family member who is a surgeon doesn't make you a medical expert... just like i can't become a heli expert because my cousin is a helicopter mechanic...

Your statement is no different than me saying all mechanics are crooks including you because i find that some mechanics are crooks...

We can agree that's probably not true... but then why would you say the same of another profession you know nothing about

For the record I'm not an AMA member.. i don't condone many of their stands ... and since you don't know... only 15% of practicing doctors are AMA members... hardly... all US doctors...

Are you really going to defend your false accusations of all US doctors? A "sorry I overstated" would have been enough...
This is the same as my profession FALSE ACCUSATION are salient and it echoes the consumers perspective and opinions of the US auto repair industry at large.
Please read a past forum submission and in fact if you wish I can draws actual parallels to poor medical services all sacrificed on the alter of driving profits.
Dennis

This is where specialization comes into play.
Vehicles generally show patterns of failure hence when someone comes on the phone explaining a fault/problem on say a Sprinter I can usually telegraph over the phone what is wrong, really the same goes for a Landrover or a Prius.

Now if someone rolls in with a Jeep, I want to be able to fix the vehicle in a competent fashion.
I am not as familiar with Jeeps consequently some some research is necessary before the tool box comes out. In any case diagnosis is essential and it take about an hour to get an idea when stuff is complex in nature.

As you have pointed out shops even dealers don't always get it right first time and there are very good reasons for this and even the medical profession has issues in that area.
One area is cost and profitability.

Dealers rarely repair a part/sub component even though a kit might/would fix the problem~ They simply don't want the liability of fixing it, install a new part is always the preferred option. Besides the manufactures insist on it for the most part.

No matter what the problem the first thing to do is research it!
As you have pointed out, web sites give some good posted repair experiences. Professional sites like Identifix give you repair information and real fixes that you can use to correct the problem first time. Networking with a fellow tech who specializes on that product line is a good resource. I subscribe to three such systems just for research and repair info.

Of course having the right tools always helps and a shop needs to have good investment in diagnostic equipment to find the problem.
Hence a good profit margin helps shops to buy /invest in the right equipment. Shops in the USA are woefully short of some equipment to do a job effectively. In short they are profit starved for lots of reasons. Most shop owners are techs first and businessmen second, or not at all; they are American flounders, a not too rare a fish!

The second is techs themselves.

I am speaking generally here so don't get offended, but American mechanics/techs are poorly trained, even if they have invested $40K in a vocational school fees. Given body for body a Mexican tech is heads and shoulders above his Anglo counterpart. I don't know what they are doing in Mexico, but the Tech schools in the USA need to look at our neighbors to the south for some ideas. Electrical knowledge is the most common shortfall!

If we are specifically referring to MB products and stuff like Landrovers, Prius's, Rolls Royces etc a compounding factor is that American mechanics are scared to touch such product lines, or if they do they make a pigs ear of it!
Landrover hasn't enjoyed a good reputation in NA until recently when Ford "Forsdized" the product line. Now its a very good product.
Really boiled down most American techs gravitate to the big three for employment which leaves about 15% of the work pool who like to do Euro or Asian work. So import shops have to train to optimize the staff. I am always doing this, its revolving door.

I look for specific staff and I hire consultants at times at very high fees. I am often at logger heads over recruitment. Last Sunday at a conference of shop owners in Glendale California I was asked what do I look for in a job applicant.
I answered, demeanor, a critical thinker. someone who has the right attitude (an A or B) personality can read and write effectively, AND most of all can demonstrate aptitude when doing an on the job interview, and shadow. Their (consultant) viewpoint is employ anyone who can turn a wrench. For me that is scary on a Sprinter or a Landrover
The other underlying problem is that generally there are simply less people in NA willing to work on vehicles period. Hence there is a labor shortage of highly skilled workers and that is not just in this field but others are as well.

I suppose as a customer on the other side of the fence what do YOU think is a good starting wage for an American tech?
Is it 10, 15, 20, 25, 30 40 50 Dollars per hour ?

Don't forget FICA !
AND if you pay peanuts you get monkeys

I have cited a few salient areas, but not all of them but some of the biggest issues to fixing modern cars right first time!
Its not easy and if it was, everybody would be doing it!

Dennis
 

Docpaulo

Well-known member
This is the same as my profession FALSE ACCUSATION are salient and it echoes the consumers perspective and opinions of the US auto repair industry at large.
So you complain about others false accusations so you go make one yourself..

Hypocrite much?

Can you never be wrong on non mechanical stuff?

So your daughter is a crook too? Can you say that to her face?

I didn't ask for a lecture, just to have you retract your false statement.... that too much to ask?
 

Docpaulo

Well-known member
We have few forum members, who will NEVER admit they are wrong, or wrongly informed.
Get used to it.
Sadly.. you're right... why someone would casually call an entire profession crooks based on a handful of personal limited experiences is beyond me...
 
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