$6000 worth of mechanical issues - Heartbroken

[GingerK]

Hey everyone, go easy on me here because I’m pretty devastated…

I recently bought a semi converted 2013 LWB Sprinter for $15k, 145k miles. It already had the solar panels and two max air fans installed, wall and ceiling insulation (but not a great job so thinking of removing to check parts) and about $1500 worth of parts including a delta generator and diesel heater.

I knew the van had some body work and mechanical issues but thought this was a decent price and the repair cost would make it up to a semi reasonable purchase. The sellers were nice enough and showed me the issues, but I didnt have the resources or knowledge to really understand if I was buying a good van or not...

The plan is to drive around it in the US for a year then sell it for more given then price of can conversions these days.

I just got a call from the garage and the van needs a new transmission, ERG cooler and valve, intake manifold plus a bunch of lower level stuff like callipers, rotors, break pads which was the stuff I was expecting. In total with the body work I’m looking at about $6000 if I’m lucky. I trust the garage I took the van too as well.

My plan for this build was $20k but I’m already over that before I’ve properly started my build.

I’m lost and don’t know how to proceed. Is it possible I can get this fixed then do the build in less than a few grand and still be able to sell it for what I paid for it at least?

Please be kind here, and I don't need lots of comments telling me what I SHOULD have done initially, I have learnt my lesson and just looking for advice on how to proceed. This is nearly all of my hard earned savings and I am devastated.

 

[marklg]

I have a few suggestions.

Get a second opinion. Where are you located? Sprinter diagnosis ability is very variable and plenty of shops will replace because they don't have the knowledge to rebuild. There are some very knowledgeable shops. Maybe you are near them. In addition to what they think needs replacement, ask the shop why those things need to be replaced and what troubleshooting steps they took.

If you are planning on selling, I would not do any upfitting, especially if you are going to use cheap parts. People don't pay much for DIY upfits. In most cases, you won't get back what you put into it, unless it is a work of art that exactly meets someone's needs. I also think that vans are in a Covid price bubble and when things finally get back to normal, prices will drop.

Do you have any motorhead friends that could help you fix some things yourself? Is there a Vo- Tech or Community College with an auto repair program? Maybe you could learn to do some of these things if tools are available.

Those site is extremely helpful with specific issues discussed in detail. Since the transmission and intake manifold are the most expensive, start with them. Find out why the shop wants to replace them and ask individual questions in the NCV3 forum on this site.

NCV3 Talk

General Discussions related to NCV3 Sprinters.

sprinter-source.com

Regards,

Mark

 

[borabora]

Mercedes has an ongoing recall campaign called the AEM (Authorized Emissions Modification). After the AEM is performed there is an extended 48k/4y warranty on emissions components including the manifold and the EGR valve.
If the AEM has been performed then you should get part of the work list done under warranty by a Mercedes dealer.
If the AEM has not been performed then you should take the vehicle to a MB dealer and have it assessed for the AEM. They won't perform the AEM if the emissions system has been modified or if items that are not covered that affect emissions are broken. However MB has been fairly generous in overlooking some issues and performing the AEM and giving you that extra warranty -- for free. If the AEM is performed while you are the owner you will also receive a cash compensation of about $2,500 but probably only in about a year. MB dealers are currently slammed and having them look at your vehicle and possibly perform the AEM will require patience.

For non-emissions related stuff you can shop around as Mark mentioned or try to do some work yourself. Sprinter work prices are high but they are also all over the place. That being said, $6k for a newly purchased Sprinter is certainly not uncommon. Are you sure that includes a new transmission or is it a transmission service...?

 

[elemental]

It is difficult for anyone to give you direct evaluations of cost and value over the Internet - Sprinter values range widely especially as they get up in age/condition. It is especially difficult to predict a future price, but generally speaking repair and conversion costs performed at retail prices are very difficult to recover in increased value. When you factor in the fact that a) estimates often run low, and b) hidden problems tend to crop up in older vehicles, it becomes even more challenging. Whether it is flipping houses or flipping vehicles, the increased value generally comes from sweat equity and/or your ability to uncover opportunities to get stuff done at less than typical retail costs.

You have three separate concerns: mechanical (engine transmission drivetrain), body, and interior van conversion. The interior van conversion is perhaps the one that you have the most potential to save money on through DIY if you have the skills, tools, and knowledge. Unless you have mechanic and/or autobody skills, that is, which you haven't mentioned so far. You'll have to optimize your value for cost in all three areas, but you can concentrate on each of them separately while building your total cost estimate.

You'll need to find a way to cut costs as much as possible without getting shoddy work. You may trust the garage that you took it to for the initial estimates, but you trusted the sellers as well. Unless you are knowledgeable yourself, the best way to gain some assurance of cost estimates is to get several, ideally at least three, all from trusted sources. The advice from marklg with respect to second opinions and finding low-cost (but not low quality) alternatives sounds good to me, as does his other advice (draw on friends, your local community resources, and this forum).

The advice from borabora also sounds good - the AEM may help you solve some of the mechanical problems as well as put some $$ in your pocket (but don't expect the $$ too soon - the checks haven't been sent out to anyone on the forum yet that I've heard of).

In the end, if you are very focused on/commited to the idea of getting all of your money back after driving the van around for a year, you may need to decide to try and sell the van now for what you paid for it (or even a slight loss) without putting anything into it, and get away from the risk of not recovering your money given that it needs more work than you anticipated. Alternatively, if your main focus was on the experience of doing the van conversion and the opportunity to spend a year traveling around, then slightly more expense up front and/or work/aggravation to solve these challenges may well be worth the effort, even if you probably won't recover all of your $$ spent now when you try to sell the van in a year.

 

[Zundfolge]

To me the most salient item is that you need at least one more opinion. Depending on the shop's diagnostic competency you may or may not need that transmission. Unfortunately it is the case that to solve what is sometimes a simple issue a shop may just replace the whole thing.

Maybe they are honest and you do need the work, maybe things are otherwise. Hence, second and even third opinions will be necessary.

What is your own level of mechanical competence? You can do much of the work and save A LOT of money. Even if you are new to it, there is a lot of help here, a lot of you tube videos etc. E.g. brakes are far from rocket science and very diyable.

 

[PostCanyonLife]

I would get a second opinion, do you have records? Was the transmission serviced?

Yes, I also think brakes are relatively easy to do, that will be my next DIY project

 

[Kajtek1]

THERE ARE NOT TOO MANY THINGS IN THIS WORLD WHO CAN BECOME VERY EXPENSIVE FASTER THAN CHEAP MERCEDES-BENZ

The old forum wisdom is very often overlooked, what only makes it more actual.
Anyway, what's done, is done.
Now I DIY and I've been getting $5000 quotes from MB dealer more than once.
Actual inspection with DIY labor fixed the issues for $200-300 as lot of the inspections dealers do from comfort of office chair .
Typical with 5G transmissions is recommending replacement, when $15 pilot bushing leak creates electronic glitches.
So read the forum and take 1 thing at the time.
List all the codes and what the shop says, so we can try to select price gouging from actual need.

 

[NBB]

First question - do you have a check engine light on? If not, then never return to this shop - period. You need to have the shop pull these codes - if any - and post them here, otherwise a bunch of useless assumptions and guesses are all you will get from this forum.

Next - does the transmission shift fine? Why - what is the complaint? Is the fluid level correct? It's non-trivial to verify that. Transmissions are not a known problem on these vehicles.

In general - mechanics see nothing but $$$ when these beasts pull into the shop. BS inflated non-sense estimates for a bunch of stuff you don't need is a part of ownership, IMO.

 

[Midwestdrifter]

A lot of shops don't do transmission work, they will blanket recommend a transmission replacement for any transmission issue they don't understand. I would get a second opinion, ideally from a shop familiar with the NAG1/722.6 trans. They are fairly common, and not difficult to service.

EGR coolers can be cleaned, which saves some money (assuming they aren't leaking). Intake manifolds swirl valves are a common issue on the V6, but I would want some details on why they need replaced, as a swirl valve positioner code is not 100% a failure diagnosis. EGR valves are somewhat reliable, so again, they need to justify the replacement, vs a cleaning.

 

[WinnieView1]

Have the AEM done which will also cover the EGR now and later and use the settlement cash to help offset the other expenses;

VIN Lookup | Mercedes-Benz Bluetec Update

 

[NBB]

What happened here?

 

[turbo911]

most trans problems are in fact conductor plate, plug to conductor plate, and solenoids. what are the codes? next if swirl valves are bad and oil cooler is not leaking there is a resistor fix (under $4) that will take you out of limp mode if that code is showing. you can also delete the egr, dpf, and remove the egr cooler with a tune $700 if your state is emission friendly and you are willing to disclose to next owner. if your trans issue is a torque convertor again codes $299 for high stall torque convertor on ebay and about $700 labor

 

[turbo911]

if you want a cooler and egr for emmission purposes i have one from a 2007 that will work at a reasonable cost pm me if you need

 

[lady3jane]

Hello Ginger,
Sounds like your van got a good start on conversion and then the owners ran into the mechanical problems.
First I would evaluate what they have done, is it solid?

I liked what elemental said about your overall plan(post #4). If you put money in the mechanicals, skip the bodywork, slap a bed into the back, you can take your year drive and get your money mostly back if you are lucky. Many van lifers travel with so much less when they are learning vehicles and the life.

Concentrate on the essentials and fun.
Plan a route that is kind.

What a Year Long Road Trip to Always Have 70 Degree Weather Looks Like

Do you want 70 degree weather year round? Then take this road trip! We'll show where to go, every step of the way!

rvshare.com

L3

 

[marklg]

Hello Ginger,
Sounds like your van got a good start on conversion and then the owners ran into the mechanical problems.
First I would evaluate what they have done, is it solid?

I liked what elemental said about your overall plan(post #4). If you put money in the mechanicals, skip the bodywork, slap a bed into the back, you can take your year drive and get your money mostly back if you are lucky. Many van lifers travel with so much less when they are learning vehicles and the life.

Concentrate on the essentials and fun.
Plan a route that is kind.

What a Year Long Road Trip to Always Have 70 Degree Weather Looks Like

Do you want 70 degree weather year round? Then take this road trip! We'll show where to go, every step of the way!

rvshare.com

L3

Ok, I live in Arizona when not traveling, so here in the winter. We just went to Yosemite in October, and have been to Seattle in August and Orogon, South Dakota and Glacier in August too (off by a month or two). The rest of the list is pretty east coast centric.

Do I get a prize?

I do like traveling with the nice weather, but others like it cold and you should consider cold weather camping too. It got down in the low 30s at night in both Glacier and Yosemite during our visits. In the dry West, there is a big differential between nighttime and daytime temperatures.

Regards,

Mark

 

[lindenengineering]

Hey everyone, go easy on me here because I’m pretty devastated…

I recently bought a semi converted 2013 LWB Sprinter for $15k, 145k miles. It already had the solar panels and two max air fans installed, wall and ceiling insulation (but not a great job so thinking of removing to check parts) and about $1500 worth of parts including a delta generator and diesel heater.

I knew the van had some body work and mechanical issues but thought this was a decent price and the repair cost would make it up to a semi reasonable purchase. The sellers were nice enough and showed me the issues, but I didnt have the resources or knowledge to really understand if I was buying a good van or not...

The plan is to drive around it in the US for a year then sell it for more given then price of can conversions these days.

I just got a call from the garage and the van needs a new transmission, ERG cooler and valve, intake manifold plus a bunch of lower level stuff like callipers, rotors, break pads which was the stuff I was expecting. In total with the body work I’m looking at about $6000 if I’m lucky. I trust the garage I took the van too as well.

My plan for this build was $20k but I’m already over that before I’ve properly started my build.

I’m lost and don’t know how to proceed. Is it possible I can get this fixed then do the build in less than a few grand and still be able to sell it for what I paid for it at least?

Please be kind here, and I don't need lots of comments telling me what I SHOULD have done initially, I have learnt my lesson and just looking for advice on how to proceed. This is nearly all of my hard earned savings and I am devastated.

Reading this post, which mirrors so MANY we get on this forum, begs the eternal question ?
Did you get this van inspected by someone qualified to give you a PRE PURCHASE INSPECTION BEFORE you handed over cash for it?

Will somebody--anybody that is please , please answer why a large majority of you, the membership, do that, & then live to regret it ?
Would you buy a $500,000 house without an inspection , a $300,000 yacht or even a cheapy aero plane . I ask without a qualified inspection ?

And please don't reply with the lame excuse that quote from a beleaguered 2016 Range Rover female purchaser gone wrong!!
"Well he was such a nice man and he lives in such a nice area of Denver!"
How would someone rip me off like that?
To this I have bottle handy which I rub and out comes Genie who say Caveat Emptor !!
And I mutter what were you thinking about?
Dennis
Dennis
!

 

[lady3jane]

Ok, I live in Arizona when not traveling, so here in the winter. We just went to Yosemite in October, and have been to Seattle in August and Orogon, South Dakota and Glacier in August too (off by a month or two). The rest of the list is pretty east coast centric.

Do I get a prize?

I do like traveling with the nice weather, but others like it cold and you should consider cold weather camping too. It got down in the low 30s at night in both Glacier and Yosemite during our visits. In the dry West, there is a big differential between nighttime and daytime temperatures.

Regards,

Mark

Mark, I've read everything you have written for the last 4-5 years.

Every word was true and said with kindness.

L3

 

[elemental]

Will somebody--anybody that is please , please answer why a large majority of you, the membership, do that, & then live to regret it ?
Would you buy a $500,000 house without an inspection , a $300,000 yacht or even a cheapy aero plane . I ask without a qualified inspection ?

I think people (in the US) are often buying the idea of the new thing and are not focusing enough on the actual new thing that they are buying. Most people buy new things anyway, in a store, where they can return it in 30 days if they don't like it. In the case of used vehicles, although the cost is not trivial, it's not quite as much as a house, boat, or plane, so not everyone thinks of getting it inspected by their local garage or mechanic (if they even have one).

Another factor is that for whatever reason, many people do not want to appear adversarial when buying a new vehicle. I managed to be stupid when buying a used but new-to-me vehicle a few years ago... although I correctly identified the major issues with the vehicle and those were accommodated in the price, I managed to miss the fact that the tires were out of date and needed to be replaced, which ended up adding about 13% to the cost of the vehicle. The people who were selling it were nice enough, but I can't believe they didn't know the tires needed to be replaced... and they didn't make mention of it, probably on the basis that it was easily observable rather than a hidden problem. Mea culpa, caveat emptor.

The right attitude is to politely assume to yourself that they are selling you a turd (why else would they be selling it) and then prove otherwise to yourself, all without being insulting of course. That can be hard to pull off if you are imagining yourself embarking on a grand adventure and see what you are buying as the golden ticket to that adventure (that you merely need to polish with a bit of elbow grease).

For my van I bought new after evaluating the potential risks of buying used, even with advice from a mechanic, based on how much $$ I was going to put into it for conversion and how long I needed it to last as a useful lifetime to me. The fact that I had the $$ to buy new was a factor, of course.

 

[borabora]

Reading this post, which mirrors so MANY we get on this forum, begs the eternal question ?
Did you get this van inspected by someone qualified to give you a PRE PURCHASE INSPECTION BEFORE you handed over cash for it?

Will somebody--anybody that is please , please answer why a large majority of you, the membership, do that, & then live to regret it ?
Would you buy a $500,000 house without an inspection , a $300,000 yacht or even a cheapy aero plane . I ask without a qualified inspection ?

And please don't reply with the lame excuse that quote from a beleaguered 2016 Range Rover female purchaser gone wrong!!
"Well he was such a nice man and he lives in such a nice area of Denver!"
How would someone rip me off like that?
To this I have bottle handy which I rub and out comes Genie who say Caveat Emptor !!
And I mutter what were you thinking about?
Dennis
Dennis
!

Because for the most part used Sprinters have been a seller's market. If it's a good looking van offered at a competitive price then if you are going to tell the seller that you are interested but will have to delay the final decision by days to have a pre-purchase inspection done then why wouldn't the seller just say "yeah, whatever" and sell to the next guy?
When I bought my '16 right before the pandemic, I was the first caller because I saw the ad on CL within 10 minutes of it posting. I saw the van the next day and bought it for the asking price. The seller had 4 other viewers lined up for that day that he cancelled. The van ended up being a very good deal despite some minor issues.
If you are shopping off dealers' lots then maybe an inspection is feasible but if you are looking for months for the right van for the right price then it most likely isn't. At least that's the way it has been in California. I don't know about elsewhere.

 

[lindenengineering]

Because for the most part used Sprinters have been a seller's market. If it's a good looking van offered at a competitive price then if you are going to tell the seller that you are interested but will have to delay the final decision by days to have a pre-purchase inspection done then why wouldn't the seller just say "yeah, whatever" and sell to the next guy?
When I bought my '16 right before the pandemic, I was the first caller because I saw the ad on CL within 10 minutes of it posting. I saw the van the next day and bought it for the asking price. The seller had 4 other viewers lined up for that day that he cancelled. The van ended up being a very good deal despite some minor issues.
If you are shopping off dealers' lots then maybe an inspection is feasible but if you are looking for months for the right van for the right price then it most likely isn't. At least that's the way it has been in California. I don't know about elsewhere.

OK point taken but if you want to run the risk of buying a polished turd that is YOU the buyer's affair or prerogative !
But please let's not have " Oh woe is me" ,a Shakespearean reenactment of Hamlet Act three scene 1
When Hamlet scorns Ophelia, she utters these words to express the grief and despair that will soon drive her to suicide.
All over a van called Sprinter !

All too often its followed a forum condemnation of repair shops that have quoted costs to fix glaring deficiencies . Mostly common problems overlooked at the point of purchase that often surpass the original cost of buying it (polished turd) in the first place.
AND that was why the original owner was selling (truth be known) because he too had the same quotation to fix it right several weeks earlier !
Dennis