Spinning Rivnuts how do you get them to seat?

Hikinginpdx

Sprinter is for sale
I’ve put in several rivnut type fitting and fine that most although most end up spinning after installation. Even the ones that a welder installed are stilling when I try to back them out.

Using the installation tool I have them very snug in the metal hole. After removing the tool I insert my bolt, a couple of turns and the rivnut starts to spin in the sheet metal hole. Only way to remove them is to drill them out.

I think they are a great idea, but useless if I can’t get them to sit still while accepting a bolt.

Anyone else had this problem, is there a trick to installing them that I’ve missed?
 

OrioN

2008 2500 170" EXT
I’ve put in several rivnut type fitting and fine that most although most end up spinning after installation. Even the ones that a welder installed are stilling when I try to back them out.

Using the installation tool I have them very snug in the metal hole. After removing the tool I insert my bolt, a couple of turns and the rivnut starts to spin in the sheet metal hole. Only way to remove them is to drill them out.

I think they are a great idea, but useless if I can’t get them to sit still while accepting a bolt.

Anyone else had this problem, is there a trick to installing them that I’ve missed?
Keith...

Can you tell me which type of rivnut you're using, brand/part number?
I originally had a similar problem, turned out I was using the wrong type for our thin wall.

Also, what brand/model number tool are you using?
If it's the same as mine, yes, it require a 'trick' to get the nut to set.....
 
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Hikinginpdx

Sprinter is for sale
Orion,

I've got a Marson tool, the nuts are some generic all I could find locally. Here's a pic of the set.

The nuts have smooth sides. The nuts thread very easy prior to installation, but after installing, they are very hard to thread. Figured I was doing something wrong. Just need to know the trick right!!!!?

Rivet setter-0418.jpg
 

autostaretx

Erratic Member
I've used the version known as "PlusNut" (same company as RivNut).
Their body is slashed to make the "crush" step easier, and i think the bearing face is larger than the plain RivNut.
http://www.cardinalcomponents.com/plusnut.htm

In 30 insertions, only one felt "iffy" (and firmed up when tightened).

The dealer had used RivNuts to install the rear-entry grab handles, and one of those was spinning when i got it.

--dick
p.s. i also only used the C1000 manual insertion tool (basically a grade 10 bolt)
http://www.rivet-nut.com/Rivnut_Power_Tools.asp
 
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d_bertko

Active member
Keith,

I was told by the Alcoa app engineer to use a ribbed rivnut instead of the smooth sided. Better vibration resistance. Usual for vehicles.

Mine are all 1/4-20 size. Most are 57350 which are grip spec'd for min .027 to max .165 wall thickness. I got a small number of longer 57354's for any thicker wall sections or to join two pieces of sheet metal together.

I'd guess yours are spinning because the rivnut grip is too big for the sheet metal. Second guess would be improper setting---maybe not enough force? I used a different hand anvil(?) where I used about a 10" long wrench and made something like 1.5 revolutions to pull/crush the nut into place. Lots of tactile feedback. I only did 50 or so at a time so my arm wouldn't fall off. Some similarity to not overtightening a wood screw but probably less sensitive to overdoing it. I put a few hundred in and don't know of any spinners. I only did one practice one on a scrap piece of sheet metal before it seemed pretty obvious what setting torque was required.

Sounds like you were careful about the hole size. Mine would just press-fit by hand IIRC. Too big of a hole could cause spinners since the crush needs adjacent sheet metal.

Here's the rivnut spec sheet: http://www.alcoa.com/fastening_systems/commercial/catalog/pdf/marson/RivetNuts/KlikRivet-Nuts-Ribbed.pdf

Hope this helps. I kept finding new ways to use them in my folding furniture in the van.

Dan
 

OrioN

2008 2500 170" EXT
I gave up on aluminum, only use steel(aluminum is like lube & threads damage quickly).

Plus, I gave up on smooth, only use ribbed (bite nicely into thin metal or oversized holes).

Are you screwing the threaded rod into the rivnut until it just passes out the bottom, then turning BOTH back until the rivnut flange sits tight on the tool face?
Also, a second resetting of the tool and a second squeeze helps ensure the nut is maxed out. (Carefull not to overthread the rod, as it will cruch the furthest threads)

The above 4 eliminated my original issues.

I rivnut anything and everything!! Even did one on plastic Decora Wall plate(used a backer washer) this week to screw my Espar Controller on top!

PS... I use 8-32 up to 5/16"
 
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Hikinginpdx

Sprinter is for sale
Some of these, the original fit was so tight that I had to use a rubber mallet to get them in. Even with that they spun.

Looks like I need to just toss the ones I have and get ribbed nuts. Also I think Dan might have something with the min grip size. Could be that these are on the tail end of wanting a thicker material. These tend to ballon out instead of flatting out behind the wall. I like the look of the PlusNut or the other ribbed and slotted nuts.

I'm just floored that all I can find in a city this size are these sucky aluminum ones.

Thanks for all the input. We are off to look at a new horse in Oregon City in the morning, hoping I can find a source out that direction tomarrow. I really want to get the cabinets hung tomarrow....
 

220629

Well-known member
FWIW. I have had some success with this trick to tighten loose Rivenuts. I thread the tool into place, squeeze the handles as tight as I can and whack the head frame of the Rivenut tool a few times with a plastic faced hammer. The jarring seems to help snug them up. That said, my tool doesn't have metric for the Sprinter OEM parts.:doh: I'd also avoid aluminum inserts like the plague. Hope this does some good. AP/vic
 

cedarsanctum

re: Member
Orion,

I've got a Marson tool, the nuts are some generic all I could find locally. Here's a pic of the set.

The nuts have smooth sides. The nuts thread very easy prior to installation, but after installing, they are very hard to thread. Figured I was doing something wrong. Just need to know the trick right!!!!?

View attachment 21563
Keith, check with Winks Hardware in Portland, they carried the riv-nut parts.

Jef
 

Mrdi

Active member
The nuts are too long.
Make sure they are spec'd for the thickness of metal you are using them in.

I think the sheet metal iside the Sprinter is about .031
 

nebep

Member
Check in with NAPA - the rivs they have are still Marson, but, they don't have that "collar" on the top. I was using the ones like yours, and had similar issue, then switched to the non-collar rivs and have had no issue.
 

maxextz

Rollin Rollin Rollin.....
i don't like them at all.the rear door handle grip has them and it has worked loose:thumbdown:.
it also depends on the strength or flexibility plus thickness of the metal its being used on as to whether its going to last without coming loose.

max..........:2cents:
 

Krenovian

Member
I’ve put in several rivnut type fitting and fine that most although most end up spinning after installation. Even the ones that a welder installed are stilling when I try to back them out.

Using the installation tool I have them very snug in the metal hole. After removing the tool I insert my bolt, a couple of turns and the rivnut starts to spin in the sheet metal hole. Only way to remove them is to drill them out.

I think they are a great idea, but useless if I can’t get them to sit still while accepting a bolt.

Anyone else had this problem, is there a trick to installing them that I’ve missed?
I think Dan is on the right track suspecting that the grip range of the rivnuts you are using may be too big for the thickness of metal they are being installed in. The other clue to this being the problem is that once they are set they are difficult to thread. This suggests the threads have become deformed and this can happen when a rivnut's grip range is to big for the metal that it is being installed in.

Curt
 

Hikinginpdx

Sprinter is for sale
A Rivnut is a Rivnut.. NOT!

It is amazing to me, when I ask about Rivnut’s people just couldn’t figure out what I was talking about. Walk in with the tool and a sample and its oh yea, isle 8. Just shaking my head.
I think I’ve figured out a bit of what has been going on. Although these samples aren’t exact, I was able to experiment and see how various nuts are behaving.

RivNuts-4065.jpg

On the left are aluminum nuts without ribs. Although this sample doesn’t show it well, as the metal buldges out and the nut collapses, it actually pinches down on the metal I’m trying to mount into. The collapse is not even left to right and totals the threads. I tried several using tools and compression methods and they all distorted and fouled the treads. End result, the torque needed to free the threads also breaks the grip and then spin, spin, spin

The center set are unique that there are 2 rigid sections. The top section pulls down into the lower section. The lower section expanses just a bit. In theory the knurled base and expanded metal are suppose to hold everything together. Best part of this nut is that you can actually use the tool to set them. The others are too much for the hand tool to compress. My concern is that there is just not enough bite on these to hold onto a cabinet in a stress condition .

The right most set are brass, ribbed and have a greater amount of surface area above and below the material when compressed. When compressed, both this version and the center version thread freely. Worse part of this model is that there is no way I can use the hand tool to set these. This sample didn’t compress cleanly but the others I tested did.

Although there are so many others out there, I believe that the brass ones are going to work fine and I’ll be attempting to mount the cabinets later this week.
 

autostaretx

Erratic Member
A Rivnut is a Rivnut.. NOT!
Fully agreed... especially because "RivNut" is a trademarked brand, not a generic descriptor.

That's a good photo... but you lack both the "real steel" RivNut (tm) and their steel PlusNut (tm)

Here's a tiny screen grab from the PlusNut advertisement.
That's how they splayed out in my usage in the Sprinter.
Compare with your examples.

--dick
 

Attachments

Mrdi

Active member
Correct tool !
I think for a Sprinter owner the purchase of a pneumatic setting tool
might be the order of the day. Those tools are typically offered by the purveyors of the nuts.
I also know if you purchase them in your nieghborhood the supplier often has loaner tools to help you set them properly.
I found a pneumatic Mac tool at the swap meet for $50 and it sets pop rivets as well as Rivnuts.
 

OrioN

2008 2500 170" EXT
A Rivnut is a Rivnut.. NOT!

It is amazing to me, when I ask about Rivnut’s people just couldn’t figure out what I was talking about. Walk in with the tool and a sample and its oh yea, isle 8. Just shaking my head.
I think I’ve figured out a bit of what has been going on. Although these samples aren’t exact, I was able to experiment and see how various nuts are behaving.


On the left are aluminum nuts without ribs. Although this sample doesn’t show it well, as the metal buldges out and the nut collapses, it actually pinches down on the metal I’m trying to mount into. The collapse is not even left to right and totals the threads. I tried several using tools and compression methods and they all distorted and fouled the treads. End result, the torque needed to free the threads also breaks the grip and then spin, spin, spin

The center set are unique that there are 2 rigid sections. The top section pulls down into the lower section. The lower section expanses just a bit. In theory the knurled base and expanded metal are suppose to hold everything together. Best part of this nut is that you can actually use the tool to set them. The others are too much for the hand tool to compress. My concern is that there is just not enough bite on these to hold onto a cabinet in a stress condition .

The right most set are brass, ribbed and have a greater amount of surface area above and below the material when compressed. When compressed, both this version and the center version thread freely. Worse part of this model is that there is no way I can use the hand tool to set these. This sample didn’t compress cleanly but the others I tested did.

Although there are so many others out there, I believe that the brass ones are going to work fine and I’ll be attempting to mount the cabinets later this week.

What size bolt and what thickness material are you trying to work with?

Also, the one's on the right are 'plated' steel.
 

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