Biodiesel

[Deleted member 50714]

One dealership mechanic claims Biodiesel causes problems.

During a trip over to have my driver air bag recall take care of, my ABS alarm came back. They replaced the faulty sensor. The mechanic & the Sprinter service manager said what many have indicated here. They only replace the bad sensor and send you on your way. He indicated that they see the problem in dual tire Sprinters built in 2015 & 2016. I got the opportunity to talk to the mechanic privately later. He said it's a big batch of wheel speed sensors used during those years of production and MB is in denial hoping you'll be out of warrantee before the failures occur. He said the DEF system is causing them lots of problems along with biodiesel. Water emulsifies in bio and rusts up the fuel system internally. I asked about the 2019 Sprinters. He said he likes what he sees but that it's too soon to make a determination. He told me he would never buy anything new & improved that MB rolls out without it being time tested. He left them once in the 90's due to some poor reliability issues. The San Antonio Sprinter service center is one of the good ones. From what I have experienced, they do not try to rack up unneeded work & costs. They are thorough and courteous and strive to give you the very best service period.

 

[rosswilliams]

The bio-diesel mandates in Minnesota are not driven by people in Saint Paul or Minneapolis. They are driven by soy bean and other farmers in rural Minnesota. Those are mostly scandinavian and german farmers. I doubt you would find a single Somali among them. I suspect many of them voted for Trump, but support for agriculture is a bi-partisan endeavor in Minnesota. I believe the 20% mandate was passed by a conservative Republican legislature and signed by a liberal Democrat governor. Sorry to disappoint those whose opinions on almost everything are formed by the click bait industry.

 

[Hosh]

Wow, must be a lot of rural farmers to offset the high population density cities, click, click. Oh wait, it’s the democrat farmer labor party, kinda sounds socialistic. AAR, Omar certainly isn’t the sharpest knife in the drawer, click, click. Anybody miss Al Frankenstein, mr titty twister.

We drove thru southern Minnesota coming back from the IndyCar race in Elkhart Lake WI. All the fuel stations we stopped at had labeling 0-20% bio. Not very helpful and the roads are pretty beat up.

 

[tiktaalik]

Just filled up today.

 

[Deleted member 50714]

Just filled up today.

2.79 a gallon, where?

 

[rosswilliams]

"democrat farmer labor party, kinda sounds socialistic."

I suppose, if you think working for a living makes you a socialist. But the reality is that Republicans are big fans of bio-diesel. Rural farming areas are a part of their base and bio-fuels grow the market for their crops. There is also a lot of local investment in bio-fuel plants. The idea that the bio-fuel industry is some sort of hotbed of liberal democrats is kind of comical, like the idea that rural voters elected Trump.

BTW, Omar IS sharp, that's why people are attacking her. Dull knives don't do any damage.

 

[tiktaalik]

In the slums of South East Portland, OR

2.79 a gallon, where?

 

[tiktaalik]

It's very unfortunate that the biodiesel industry has been politicized the way it has. There's a lot of conditioned puppets out there that just parrot the party line without looking into the facts. B20 is higher performing than the best fuel additive on the market. It cleans, lubricates, reduces wear and prolongs the life of the engine. It's domestic, less toxic and 70% reduction in emissions. Sequential Fuels our refinery here in Oregon makes it from waste oil from other industries. I have been running my trucks on biodiesel in various blends for the past 12 years and its the cats pajamas.

"democrat farmer labor party, kinda sounds socialistic."

I suppose, if you think working for a living makes you a socialist. But the reality is that Republicans are big fans of bio-diesel. Rural farming areas are a part of their base and bio-fuels grow the market for their crops. There is also a lot of local investment in bio-fuel plants. The idea that the bio-fuel industry is some sort of hotbed of liberal democrats is kind of comical, like the idea that rural voters elected Trump.

BTW, Omar IS sharp, that's why people are attacking her. Dull knives don't do any damage.

 

[avanti]

It's very unfortunate that the biodiesel industry has been politicized the way it has. There's a lot of conditioned puppets out there that just parrot the party line without looking into the facts. B20 is higher performing than the best fuel additive on the market. It cleans, lubricates, reduces wear and prolongs the life of the engine. It's domestic, less toxic and 70% reduction in emissions. Sequential Fuels our refinery here in Oregon makes it from waste oil from other industries. I have been running my trucks on biodiesel in various blends for the past 12 years and its the cats pajamas.

Yes, it is a shame. The idea of biodiesel is a very good one--one of the few plausible paths toward truly renewable energy for mobile platforms.

Sadly, because the deployment of this technology has followed a politically-based, rather than a reality-based agenda, bio has gotten a very well-deserved bad name. Balancing the glowing attributes that you cite are many negatives, including irrational subsidies on inefficient production methods, environmentally-unfriendly agricultural techniques, introduction of excessive nitrogen into the ecosystem, and of course the forcing of the use of these fuels in vehicles that were not designed, and are not equipped to burn them.

I am all for biofuels, but only when the science and economics can support them. I strongly suspect that truly sustainable biofuels will come from algae, not corn, wheat, or soybeans.

 

[old-geezer]

"democrat farmer labor party, kinda sounds socialistic."

I suppose, if you think working for a living makes you a socialist. But the reality is that Republicans are big fans of bio-diesel. Rural farming areas are a part of their base and bio-fuels grow the market for their crops. There is also a lot of local investment in bio-fuel plants. The idea that the bio-fuel industry is some sort of hotbed of liberal democrats is kind of comical, like the idea that rural voters elected Trump.

BTW, Omar IS sharp, that's why people are attacking her. Dull knives don't do any damage.

We've heard the same "liberals ruined it" argument about boondocking in the NE.

In reality it's the campground owners that got many of the the "no overnight parking" ordinances passed as the season is short and they need all the money they can get to make it through the winter.

 

[aviatordoc]

So what is the consensus here? IS bio 5-20 OK to use?
I just returned from a trip and was reading labels at every Diesel pump. Cannot find anything else on the highway, so pumped it up.

 

[TwoClinks]

For what I understand from my very informed & experienced MB service manager, not a steady diet of 5>biofuel. He see's a large number of fuel system issues that come across his desk especially from fleet vehicles. Bio & the lack of scheduled fuel filter changes. Having said that, Mercedes Benz seems to be adjusting their position in the US on bio for political reasons.
I suggest that you monitor your engine oil level for dilution and change your engine oil @ 10K.

 

[SSTraveler]

Just drive it like you stole it! Hot and long, and you'll have no worries. I run B20, at times every tank or every other tank, and have had no issues in nearly 6 years. At normal interval oil changes I ask the mercedes service tech if my oil shows any signs of concern from B20 use and I am always told "NO, keep doing what you are doing." I rarely idle but if I have to, never for more than a 10-15 minutes. I also have my Fuel filter changed every 30,000 miles or at everyother service interval.

"Everything you've ever wanted is on the other side of fear!"
(George Addair)

 

[Klipstr]

Finally a reasonable answer/statement! Thanks SS! Go run the dang things. Take trips, have fun, see the country, stop worrying about the damn MB. Geez.

Oh, and Happy New Year!

 

[woundedpig]

There are other reasonable ways of looking at this. MB has changed their stance regarding frequent B20 use recently and recommends oil changes at more common intervals than in previous times - 10K, I believe, is a prudent goal. Since a major target is the fuel system/lines, injectors, and filter, it seems reasonable to change the fuel filter regularly. I'm doing it every 20K.

Plus, unless the oil is examined for dilution/viscosity reduction or the fuel filter opened and examined, the MB tech is not going to be able to tell you in more depth what is going on.
If you want to take a more risk-averse approach approach in terms of maintenance items, the above schedule seems reasonable to me. Certainly not worth fretting about, and, yes, drive the Sprinter hard and hot.

 

[avanti]

MB has changed their stance regarding frequent B20 use recently and recommends oil changes at more common intervals than in previous times

What changes are you referring to here? Has Mercedes superseded the 2015 "Biodiesel" brochure? Where do they recommend more frequent OCIs? The last recommendations I have seen merely involve monitoring carefully for oil dilution.

If there are more recent recommendations, I would appreciate the references.
Thanks.

 

[CJPJ]

There is no better way to carefull monitor oil dilution than by: before the usual time/mileage a changing of the oil.

What changes are you referring to here? Has Mercedes superseded the 2015 "Biodiesel" brochure? Where do they recommend more frequent OCIs? The last recommendations I have seen merely involve monitoring carefully for oil dilution.

If there are more recent recommendations, I would appreciate the references.
Thanks.

 

[avanti]

There is no better way to carefull monitor oil dilution than by: before the usual time/mileage a changing of the oil.

That is not "monitoring", that is the equivalent of throwing parts at a malfunction you don't understand. Yes, it can fix the issue, but only at unnecessary cost.

At any rate, I was only asking about MB's current recommendations. I consider them more interesting than Internet chatter.

 

[CJPJ]

Ok. How do you do the-carefully monitoring of oil dilution?
That dilution; more than anything occurs during Regenerations at approximently 500 mile intervals.

What changes The last recommendations I have seen merely involve monitoring carefully for oil dilution.

If there are more recent recommendations, I would appreciate the references.
Thanks.

 

[woundedpig]

The Avanti patrol has arrived, as expected. Many dealers are going beyond what the latest MB recommendations suggest, based on their experience with Sprinter maintenance issues. I have experience with two such dealers that I trust. I have heard similar recs on other forums. That is not internet chatter, but is a pragmatic response. It may not be a blinded scientific study with controls, but it is enough for me to use more frequent maintenance intervals. The cost is really minimal, especially given the cost of repairing serious engine/emission issues. It is not "throwing parts" at a problem.
My service rep recommends 10K oil changes and 20K fuel filter changes and minimizing B20 when feasible, which is a snap when one can usually get B5 fuel across the street if desired.

Avanti, weren't you the one who said you would never buy another Sprinter? Why not take a more cautious approach to care and maintenance?
I'm attaching the more cautious, "read between the lines" MB brochure which was released for the B20-heavy Illinois and Minnesota markets. It doesn't list more frequent mandatory maintenance, just to follow the on board computer and watch for oil dilution.
Again, I'm doing what I feel is prudent and reasonable. Others can do the same.